“Film is dead, it’s just there is nobody there who’d pay for the funeral”

<p>I read this thread with the corresponding comment at japancamerahunter.com<br>

http://japancamerahunter.com/2012/12/film-photography-is-not-dead/#comment-12641<br>

Knowing how it is embarrassing, and being fully aware of the hard core moral film supporters who dwell (legally?) at photo.net, I want, nevertheless, bring up a strange thought that flashed through my mind lately:<br>

1. Since film is a medium that can be stored and stocked, there might be stores and stocks of it somewhere.<br>

2. Nobody actually knows, how many film supporters are left and what their number would be in a year.<br>

Question: what if there are, in reality, so few film shooters by the time it will have been demised, that those film adherents who remain out there WILL ENJOY shooting a film stock ten times bigger they could have ever hoped to get hold of?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Question: what if there are, in reality, so few film shooters by the time it will have been demised, that those film adherents who remain out there WILL ENJOY shooting a film stock ten times bigger they could have ever hoped to get hold of?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Good for them, get out and shoot more! I'm not sure why it's strange and flashes through your mind of late. Nothing too much to dwell on imo. I'd rather hear strange voices echoing and see pictures flashing in my mind than "bigger film stock." And maybe the smell of fresh fixer bath tho;)</p>

<p>Boy, I do miss sniffing fixer bath.</p>

<p>Exactly! I am not shooting now because I can't Ilford it. But, since someone is going to die in the village, I hope to get drunk at the public funeral for free, if you know what I mean.<br>

Speaking bluntly for those, who are on the armoured train.</p>

<p>Forgive me for saying so but this seems a typical troll. </p>

 

<p><a href="http://eur.shop.lomography.com/films/new-in-stock">Good for them, get out and shoot more!</a><br>

Shall we stop using this slogan and busting somebody else's "film spools" with regard to these prices?</p>

<p>"Forgive me for saying so but this seems a typical troll."<br /> Let's call a cat a cat. It will not mind. I'm just sick and tired of enterprising artists shouting "film is not dead!!!" on every corner and trying to sell me this very film for 10 EUR/box. It's just unacceptable. I am also sick and tired of not being able to shoot film. Plainly speaking, I WANT this funeral to happen, to see if I can get myself some film to shoot for the next 1 or 2 years.</p>

<p>In the last twelve months here in the UK, about half a dozen new public access darkrooms have opened up. We have new retailers selling film, paper and chemicals etc. Ilford have reported an 8 percent increase in sales. Jessops have recently folded but they practically abandoned 'real' photography years ago.<br>

Film-based photography has now settled to a level which it wil maintain into the foreseeable future. Some people are coming to film photography for the first time and some are coming back to it. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>Ilford have reported an 8 percent increase in sales</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Ilford talks about that increase in terms of revenue and profits, not volume of product. If they have announced volume increases, it's not apparent. Revenue can mean almost anything - volume can decrease and prices can go up faster. If there's actual volume of product sold info out there, someone should post it.</p>

<p>If people with deep pockets want to spend $, this site apparently has annual reports of UK companies availalble.<br>

No guess as to the scope.<br>

<a href="http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails">http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails</a><br>

(I searched for Harman Technology Ltd.)</p>

<p>this thread started ans a strange ramble<br>

chris waller made one of the first clear statements<br>

but let me add my own "old man;'s analysis"<br>

film is used because we havbe film cameras and it is hard to shoot digitan with thise cameras<br>

second we like film<br>

we , in many cases LIKE working in the darkroom<br>

and while we may use a digicam for practical reasons<br>

we still use things we have always used<br>

a</p>

<p>"Nobody actually knows, how many film supporters are left and what their numbers would be in a year."</p>

<p>Really!?</p>

<p>I would think that Ilford, Freestyle, Fuji, B&H and several other outlets and suppliers could give you some pretty good data based on sales. As for fiscal year 2014 sales, well they'll probably look at trends in the last two years and project from there.</p>

<p>I really think film has reached a 'steady state' with potential for some growth. The world price of silver will have an effect so I would expect prices to rise in response to that and labor and equipment replacement expense. Not as many deals but available to anyone that wants it.</p>

<p>Help me out here, Oleg. You recognize, from the article, that film is not really dead but still exists in a reduced state. You find current film prices too expensive and so you want to hasten the end of film photography so you can sweep in and pick up a good deal from the remains of the dead carcass so you can then shoot for a couple of years. Have I got that right?</p>

<p>You need to discover eBay. Last night I bought ten rolls of fresh 35mm Fujicolor 400 36 exp for $3/roll (US Dollars) with free shipping. For B&W, try buying bulk and loading your own cassettes to save money. Outdated film is also available NOW on-line at reduced prices if you hunt around the web.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I am not shooting now because I can't Ilford it.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>B&H <strong>Fuji Acros 120 roll $3.25</strong> (it was $3 at Adorama last year)<br>

<br /><strong>Rodinal $13.99 </strong> Depending on how you shoot one bottle lasts YEARS.</p>

<p><strong>120 C-41 processing at Walmart 88¢</strong> WTF?! How cheap does it have to be for people to stop making excuses?!</p>

<p>Oleg, how much is your monthly cell phone bill? How much is you monthly cable bill? I picked up a complete mint Rollei 6008i camera with multiple accessories for a little of $1,000. That is nuts. When in the history of photography have you ever seen prices like this. When? Give me a year.</p>

Dead,like the LP ! Mind you LP sales are rising while Cd sales are falling rapidly! People still like the alternative of

analogue media

Dead,like the LP ! Mind you LP sales are rising while Cd sales are falling rapidly! People still like the alternative of

analogue media

<p>There are those that say that adjusted for inflation (US dollars) film is actually cheaper now then it was in the pre-digital days. Whatever the case, the rise in film costs to consumers has a lot to do with the cost of silver steadily increasing over the past few years, or at least that is what Illford, Adox, and other companies have stated. I'm sure there are other factors but I cannot say what those may be. As long as I can afford to buy film, chems, and paper, I will keep shooting film.</p>

Oleg,<br><br>You apparantly can't buy film. So for you film is dead. Live with it.<br>The rest of us will happily go on with our lives too. Using film.<br>"Let's call a cat a cat", and a troll a troll, indeed.

<p>@<a href="/photodb/user?user_id=1998172">Louis Meluso</a><br>

Yes, you got it right. After having made a bit of my own research I started to think that film may be already phased out by Fuji and Kodak (probably, not yet by Ilford and Foma) and what they sell to us is actually the remaining stock that these "manufacturers" simply repack.<br>

As to the prices: I have a misfortune to live in a third world country, first point. There is no much use to buy film from USA dealers and to ship it dearly to my place. Rodinal is cheap, but, luckily, in my country the chemical industry is overdeveloped and I can by raw chemicals to do my own B&W. So, what is missing? Paper. No paper, no film scanner. I can go hang. Just to mention it: one box of god knows how outdated Foma (10 sheets) costs HALF of my monthly salary. But even if it cost one-fifth's, it would be unreasonable because of only 10 sheets 30X40cm in the box. Normal production flow even for a self-made artist requires more paper.<br>

Resuming all this I would like to stress one point: there may actually be so few film followers in the world, that they already do not need film to be produced anymore. They could be shooting the actual film stock till the end of their days. But commerce thinks differently. They will be selling you whatever you will be buying. And this doesn't necessarily mean that someone will be PRODUCING it.<br>

"Oleg, how much is your monthly cell phone bill? How much is you monthly cable bill? I picked up a complete mint Rollei 6008i camera with multiple accessories for a little of $1,000. That is nuts. When in the history of photography have you ever seen prices like this. When? Give me a year."</p>

<p>This is another question. Cameras CAN cost big money. It is normal. The abnormal situation is the one where you buy Rollei 6008 for $1000 and I gather money to buy Contax RTS-III for $250. Because, at today's film rates, and seeing how they are changing, the rationale for it would be very far-stretched.</p>

<p>And when you divide $3.25 per 12 you get roughly $0.30 per 1 button pressing, which is cool. I just can't find a place in today's world where I can boast that I spend $0.30 every time I press the button.<br>

Just for general information. I am over 40 and I caught the vanishing tail of the USSR glory, when I was 18. I could have silver rich film and paper by the stone because they were actually produced in MY TOWN and close nearby! . And, having once compared the quality of this 1990 paper to Adox Nuance, I should say that TODAY I would prefer the former.</p>

<p>""""You apparantly can't buy film. So for you film is dead. Live with it. The rest of us will happily go on with our lives too. Using film. "Let's call a cat a cat", and a troll a troll, indeed.""""</p>

<p>I want excuses and I'll get them. Please make notice of this.<br>

As it is, the situation tends to be very ironical, not to say "absurd" for YOU.<br>

1. Film becomes more expensive every year (day?).<br>

2. If my assumptions about Kodak and Fuji are correct, Ilford and Foma will divide the remaining market, but this doesn't mean that the prices will be lowered.<br>

3. There is a Russian company "Tasma" which is situated in the back of beyond and still produces aerial B&W film also in 35mm perforated format.<br>

It seems, the person who called me a troll WILL BE BUYING FILM FROM RUSSIA!</p>

<blockquote>

<p>It seems, the person who called me a troll WILL BE BUYING FILM FROM RUSSIA!</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>'Persons' not 'person' Oleg. So far two people here have called you a troll and now I'm a third. </p>

<p>Thank You. You can't imagine how much pleasure I get from it. While you do not contravene my arguments, take your time and recall more folklore names to call me by.<br>

Meanwhile, once again, and for those, who think:<br>

Did they recently show you at Kodak or Ilford how do they do the actual film coating in 2013? What if you are already buying their STOCK? And, consequently, what if you are buying it too dearly, considering how many prospective buyers are left?</p>

<p> </p>

Oleg, I am sorry that you are unable to afford film prices. Studies have shown that it has not gone up in price as much as

other things in life, so sales are steady and now at a sustainable albeit boutique market levels. Even digital ravaged Kodak can

manage to re-tool around that and if they doubled the price, people like me who shoot for a living will still buy it because

the quality is so high that our end products to our customers will be too.

 

If you think that your cognition of film vanishing will create some kind of "Ground Beef half off due to past expiration date"

sale and you will inherit a windfall of celluloid, you are incredibly mistaken and are setting your self up for some serious

road rash...

 

But it's ok sir, you do the worrying and we will make the art.

<p>"Studies have shown that it has not gone up in price as much as other things in life" - what a phrase! I like "other things in life" best of all.<br>

Seriously, it's me who is wearing motley here and is making unfounded assumptions. And I want to hear some serious objections to them. Kill me with facts, not laugh (thanks nevertheless).<br>

I contend that the logic behind "I am still shooting film so it will always be there" is flawed.<br>

Following this logic, YOU may be keeping Ilford afloat for the sake of Its staying afloat with the money you could have spent on your kids. And it is very easy for Ilford to declare that they are flourishing while they are selling their stock to several thousands of very stubborn people. Ilford or no Ilford, you WILL get this stock either way. It will be sold to you. It's a law of commerce. Question is price.</p>

Oleg,<br>I'll "contravene" your "arguments". There is no difficulty buying film.<br>How's that for feed?