Voigtlander CL & newbie question

Hello I have a voigtlander CL

 

- there is a focus ring on the lens with distances in feet on it ( see image ) -> if I move the ring there is no focis difference when I look through the window ? Is this normal . I can set it offcourse to the presets portrait, landscape etc. But it would be nice to know if the focus works or not and what's the default behaviour

- I've loaded a test 200 ASA film 24 images . the film counter on the bottom shows some presets ( 20 , 25, 30, 35 ) for number of images. If I read the manual correct for a 24 film I need to set it initially to 26 and then turn the rapid winding lever 2 times, is it then ready to start taking photo's ?It should be set at that point to 24 I guess. But at first I loaded the film, it did not move. Opened the case again. No luck. Then lifted the rewind knob and pushed it hard in and it moved...

- I also noticed sometimes the diafragma does not works as it should when pressing the shutter.. It has to be related to the correct insetting of the film .... or has this nothing to do with it.

- in the manual it states hwo to load the film , but this is not clear. Should I insert it on the take up spool, or on the other side, so that the film takes the spool hinge when it reaches that point?

 

Sorry for all these questions...

 

 

Hi! I believe the Vito CL is a viewfinder camera. That is, there is no focusing aid other than the scale; you won't see any indication of focus in the finder; it's just for framing the picture. There is another model, the Vito CLR, which has a rangefinder.

 

Not sure you mean when you say the diaphragm doesn't work 'as it should'. I suspect the aperture opens and closes directly when you turn the aperture ring. It won't close down as you press the shutter button, as it does on an SLR camera. It doesn't need to have that complex mechanism, since you're not viewfinding through the lens, or metering through the lens.

The shutter is cocked on these by the advancing film tuning a sprocket wheel. If the film perforations aren't engaging with the sprocket wheel's teeth correctly, the shutter won't work reliably. I guess by diaphragm you are referring to the shutter blades here.

OK Tx, that's the phenomenon I have. Sometimes the shutter works fine, then doesn't work anymore

 

 

Is there a manual or something to repair this or to do some cleaning on it ? If that existst

 

Since it's realy a nice camera

Just to re-emphasize and clarify what John Seaman wrote above (because its crucial to understand about every classic Voigtlander 35mm camera):

 

You must have a roll of film properly loaded in the camera for the shutter mechanism to operate correctly.

 

The film advance lever only pulls the film across, the shutter is cocked by the film itself as it moves past the sprockets. The sprockets cock the shutter, not the advance lever. Even if you have an old folding Vito with separate shutter cocking lever, the same principle applies: it won't fire the shutter more than once unless film is loaded and wound on. No film in the camera means no way to tell if the camera is actually working right.

 

You can get around this by opening the camera back and spinning the sprocket wheel with your finger until it latches: this fools the camera to think it has film loaded, and will let the shutter release normally. But doing this repeatedly is hard on the fingers (the sprocket teeth are sharp, and the cocking spring is tough to push against). It should only be necessary when you want to open the shutter at B to look thru the lens glass, checking for haze or fungus. Simple checking of shutter speeds is easier with film loaded: buy a cheap expired roll and keep it just for this purpose, rewinding to re-use when needed.

 

Taking apart one of these for service or cleaning usually isn't a good idea. There isn't anything you can do to improve the viewfinder: its nice and big, but uncoated, so it flares a lot. Cleaning would only be necessary if you noticed fungus or haze. The meter is fragile, if the selenium cell is expired it may be difficult to reactivate. The lens, like any leaf shuttered camera of the 1950s, is as complicated as a watch (esp with the added metering connections in this model). If you aren't at all familiar with servicing leaf shutters, don't start a project you'll regret. These cameras are common enough and affordable enough that its often best to just buy another that still works well: if the shutter on this one has problems, replace it.

 

That said, if you really want to service it yourself, follow this guide that shows how to repair the similar Voigtlander CLR (exact same camera as yours, but with a rangefinder). There is no official repair manual available, all you can do is look for similar tutorials posted by anyone who has succeeded.

Edited October 2, 2019 by orsetto

ok tx, but I tried your suggestion. Moved the sprocket until it cannot go further. then press the shutter ( no luck -> small click , but the diafragma in the lens does not open and closes ) . Seems strange . any idea to detect a failure then ?

Before assuming that it doesn't work, make sure the aperture is wide open (low f number) and the shutter is set to something like 1/30, or longer, otherwise you might not see it working. Point the camera at a light with the back open and fire the shutter, should be easy to see if it's working then.

Again, it can be difficult to evaluate the shutter without film in the camera. Spinning the sprocket with a finger doesn't always completely wind the mechansim: for such a small simple camera it is VERY aware of whether it has film in it or not. In the old days, this was a great feature because it made Voigtlanders foolproof: you could never forget to load film, and never make a double exposure. Sixty years later, the "no-film-no-go" feature is extremely annoying: makes it very difficult to check proper functioning.

 

Anyway, assuming you did get it all the way wound: how far did the shutter button move before you heard the short click? It should move down a small amount so that you feel spring pressure against your finger before it fires. If you feel no spring pressure (the button moves a tiny amount and then stops hard), the camera isn't fully wound (or broken).

 

Looking at the lens: I think you might be confused about how the word "diaphragm" applies with this type of camera. There are actually TWO "diaphragms": one is for the aperture, the other is the leaf shutter. Usually the shutter "diaphragm" is behind the aperture diaphragm, so if the aperture is closed to a small setting like f/16 it covers the shutter. As steve_gallimore mentioned, you need to set the lens aperture to wide open (f/2.8) to make the shutter visible, and set a slow shutter speed (1/15th). Holding the camera up to a light with the back open should show the shutter open and close (you'll see a brief flash of light thru the lens when you press the button).

 

Sorry for repeating this yet another time, but you can't know anything for sure unless you actually load the camera with film and try all the shutter settings (change them each time you wind to another frame). With film loaded, you can't see all the way thru the lens, so hold the camera under a light and look thru just the front element. As you press the shutter button, you should still be able to see the shutter diaphragm move (open then close). Be sure the aperture setting is all the way open at f/2.8, and slower speeds like 1/15th or 1/30th will be easier to see in action than 1/125th or 1/300th (which are almost invisible).

Edited October 2, 2019 by orsetto

Re loading film: the manual is correct in its description, although every photographer loads film in their own way which may not be exactly the same. The important thing is that you see the film move smoothly before you close the back.

 

Open the camera and push the rewind switch so the knob pops up, then pull the knob further up as far as it will go. The manual suggests hooking the film on the takeup reel: every camera manual suggests this as the first step, but its impossible to do with only two hands. More commonly, you'd pull a little bit of leader out of the film spool, put the film in the film chamber, hold it in place with your left thumb, then attach the film leader to the takeup spool. Wind the takeup spool with your finger on its edge, until the film engages the sprockets on top and bottom. Turn the rewind knob gently clockwise until you feel the film begin to tighten, then push it all the way down. Close the back, set the frame counter to two frames more than the film length, then wind the two blank frames to get to fame 1.

 

If the film doesn't seem to be winding, the rewind knob may not be fully seated and/or the film isn't solidly hooked on the takeup reel (takeup turns under the film instead of pulling it). If necessary, open the camera again and re-attach the leader to the takeup spool. It might be worth wasting a frame to be sure all is well: before closing the back, wind the advance lever and check that the film moves as it should. Then close the back.

Hi all , i have set the aperture to 2.8 and shutter speed to asa800

 

pointing at a light window, case open

 

no luck, i can press the shutter down a bit, it clicks and the shutter blades move a fractionnof a mm....

The film speed and shutter speed settings are made with the same ring on this camera, which can be confusing. The film speed setting (on the side of the lens, tiny red numbers from 10-800) just programs the meter for the speed rating of your film: set that to match whatever film you are using. To set the film speed, use the finger of one hand to press and hold the small silver tab, and your other hand to turn the shutter speed ring until the correct film speed number is under the pointer on the side of the lens. Let go of the silver tab.

 

The shutter speed settings are the larger black numbers at the top of the lens (B-15-30-60-125-500). These are set by just turning the shutter speed ring (don't press the silver tab on the side). The shutter speed you want to use to check if the shutter is working is "15" - line this number up with "2.8" for the aperture at the top center indicator for both settings (diamond shape index pointer). Cock the shutter with the advance lever, and turn the sprocket wheel to the right until it stops. Look thru the lens and press the shutter button: you should see a circle of light for a split second. If there is no flash of light thru the lens, cock the shutter again. Change the shutter speed to "B" (line up "B" with "2.8" at the top center of the lens). Look thru the lens, press the shutter button and hold it down. You should see steady light thru the lens, if you now let go of the shutter button the blades should close. If you still can't see thru the lens at B or 15 and f/2.8, the camera may need repair.

 

One last thing you can check is the self-timer: this can sometimes get stuck and freeze the shutter. Set the shutter to 15 (or any other number except B). Cock the camera as you did previously with the advance lever and sprocket wheel. Under the lens, check if the tiny silver self-timer handle is all the way to the right (toward the viewfinder side of the camera): this is the normal position. If it is in the middle of its slot or on the left, it is stuck/frozen and jamming the camera. Press the shutter button and gently push the self timer tab to the right. If you are lucky it will move with a slight buzzing sound: keep pushing gently until it goes all the way back to the right. Cock the camera again and press the shutter button: it should move a little further and the shutter open/close fully. If not, you may need to exercise it another dozen times. If that doesn't work, it needs repair.

Hello Orsetto. I tried your 1ste part, but no luck with any setting.... Then looked at the self-timer... yes it's stuck in the middle. but tried all your steps and it won't move. Guess I need to try to open the lens now? Any guide to a repair movie :) Else the voigtlander will end up as decoration piece ( I still have a Minolta 5A & a yashica gsn 35 elktro,which I repaired Yesterday ( broken white lead towards battery spring )

Regs

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