Your favourite 'budget' MFD system?

Let's say you wanted to buy into a reasonably priced MFD system. What would you choose in 2019? I'm just curious at this point. But MFD cameras are among the most interesting.

 

Surface area is more important than pixel count, and I'm not as obsessed with maximum aperture as some are. I do like consistency, though. RAW converters I like: DxO and Capture One. I'll give the free ones a go, too, but I expect lens corrections.

 

I find it interesting that the P25+ back has 22Mpx on a 49x37mm sensor, but the P30+ has 32Mpx on a 44x33mm sensor. I wonder what you all would say, given that choice?

 

The one that makes the most sense, for its sensor size, is the Leica S2 - but the Fuji 50R is also worth a look. Mirrorless is the better platform, in general. The modularity of the Hasselblad system is not unattractive, though. Then there are the 645D and 645Z. I actually have three Pentax lenses already.

 

Many would say that the best medium format camera is one that shoots film. I won't doubt that - in fact I'll probably affirm it. But shooting film won't always be possible.

 

Bonus question: can you buy TCs that let you use 35mm lenses on MFD cameras?

It took me a while to work out what you meant by MFD as it's not an abbreviation I've seen before. MF being used at least as much for 'manual focus' as 'medium format'.

 

I'll not try offering suggestions for the best system, but at least I can try for the bonus.

 

Despite claims I've seen to the contrary TC's will boost a lenses image circle unless baffles are specifically added to stop this which is not always the case - I've specifically used TCs for coverage with c-mount lenses. IQ with the TC does drop so results may be disappointing.

 

I don't know of any adapters produced for 35mm to medium format. Even T2 mount has a shorter registration than any MF SLR, but If your MFD has a short registration (only possible with mirrorless options) it would be possible to get an adapter made to any 35mm SLR mount & add a TC of that mount possibly removing baffles to allow the image circle. Probably not worth the hassle

I'd look for a used monorail with a pretty obsolete back and maybe 2 matching lenses, to have studio fun, that my rigid smaller cameras can't provide.

On a budged not needing many megapixels and having 3 Pentax lenses, I'd call a used Pentax the no-brainer for you.

Starting from scratch, with new stuff in reach, I'd lean towards Fuji since

• I am seriously lusting after their EVF, swiveling into chimney position (when you add an extra hinge)
  
• I shoot both brands in APS and consider Fuji's JPEG processing "amazing!"
  
• without diving into reviews (if there are any at all...) I 'd put more trust into Fuji's glass.
  
• OIS lenses! - There seems to be no other MF system, being made handheld shooting in mind.
  

OTOH:

• I don't trust their AF and EVF, so I wouldn't buy blind and insist on testing that stuff behind an ND filter pulling store lighting down to girl cave / dim pub level.
  
• Looking at lens offerings Pentax seem significantly cheaper. (Whatever that might mean, out in the real world's fields; bricks or cobble stones are even less expensive and should work splendidly as domestic paper weights...)
  

 

TCs that let you use 35mm lenses on MFD cameras?

How should those work, on what exactly, for which kind of lens? If you want really bad glass for the box camera look: Hit your local optician, order a spectacles lens and mount it on a bellows. Putting some minus glass in front of a 35mm lens might work too. - I haven't heard of any source offering achromatic minus diopter lenses and you 'd probably need a different one for each 35mm focal length you want to shoot at infinity on your MF SLR.

Why bother at all, in a world full of fishy heritage glass?

 

Bonus question: How did Leica & Hasselblad make it into a budged thread at all?

Pretty much what you said. I shoot MF with film and have been curious with digital. I have seen the USA holds up prices a bit better. Yeah. .. the affordable options are the P series backs with something like a RZ67 which is more easily available to get digital but the RZ67 is a bit more than the RB due to its digital compatibility. Another option and maybe cheaper is the Phase One / Mamiya body with again the P series back or the Mamiya ZD back 22MP or something. Here in NZ it is a bit cheaper and they bundle 2 or 3 lenses together as little as $1500US. Anything much more than that yeah the Fuji GFX 50R becomes in consideration.

The expressions "budget" and "medium format digital" still have quite a gulf between them. The gulf widens dramatically if you have expectations of workflow and convenience remotely approximating any APS-C or FX sensor system made in the past ten years.

 

The most sensible budget option for you would be a used Pentax 645D. You already have three Pentax lenses, might as well put them on a body thats fully compatible with them for all mechanical and/or electronic features. The 645D also happens to be the only actual "bargain" in MFD: perhaps the only true budget alternative that isn't absolutely prehistoric in smaller-format terms. The sensor is a very good 33x44 Kodak 40MP CCD, same one used in many separate Phase and Leaf backs (at much higher cost). With the 645D, that sensor is integrated into a coherent one-piece relatively modern camera with AF, AE and built-in prism. While quite large, operation is akin to something like a Nikon D-whatever or Canon EOS.

 

It is also the only "budget MFD" path to in-camera jpegs, if you need that: old separate backs don't do jpeg at all, new mirrorless cams are 2x to 4x more expensive. The 645D routinely sells for under $2000 (US) in North America, recently many have sold for barely $1600 (US). Thats an unbeatable value for Pentax 645 lens owners, and the body can take some other lenses like Zeiss Hasselblad or Pentax 6x7 with adapters. The Pentax was later updated to a 645Z model, nearly identical aside from the sensor being contemporary CMOS instead of CCD. The "Z" was once a great second-hand value at roughly $3300 (US) until Fuji came out with their mirrorless system using the same sensor size. Today, the Pentax 645Z is neither here nor there: not rock bottom cheap like the 645D, and outdated compared to a new or used Fuji mirrorless for not much more money. The 645D is cheap enough for anybody to experiment with at minimal financial risk, the 645Z is poor value now unless you're heavily invested in Pentax glass and need a compatible CMOS body for it.

 

Early Hasselblad H system cameras with digital back are available for around 645Z price, but are a bad bet for most people. Mfr support has been withdrawn, parts and repairs can be difficult, and while the bodies seem affordable the lens cost is still astronomical even second-hand. The lenses may be designed by Hasselblad but they're made by Fuji (and render like Fuji). If you want Fuji, buy into their new mirrorless system.

 

Very old Phase and Leaf backs like the P25+ are pointless today unless you very specifically want to convert an old film camera system (like Hasselblad) to digital capture, or use a field/view camera with movements. Otherwise, forget it: while they still produce beautiful files, good low-miles examples cost as much as a Pentax 645Z or new Fuji. The greatest advantage of an older CCD back with larger sensor is it can convert (some) film cameras to digital with minimal crop factor. But the smaller sensor 33x44 CCD backs don't offer anything more (and often much less) than a Pentax 645D.

 

Note there are several potential pitfalls with separate digital backs grafted onto random MF cameras. External sync cords are almost always required, film plane registration can be an issue, preview screens are often completely useless for anything but making settings, no in-camera jpeg capability, etc. The only "universally adaptable" camera systems were Hasselblad V with its Zeiss lenses, and Mamiya 645: everything else required a far less common dedicated back (i.e., a lot of pros still love the Contax 645 system, but digital backs for it are scarce and sell for more than a complete new Fuji outfit).

 

The Mamiya RB and RZ cameras are an utter trainwreck to set up and operate with a digital back: don't even bother. Between the multiple off-the-wall bespoke bits and pieces they require (that no other camera does), the unobtainable adapters, and the ridiculous crop factor (forget wide angle altogether, you'll be lucky to approximate a "normal" lens)- forget it.

 

So basically, if you aren't dying to convert an old studio Hasselblad system, and don't plan on dragging a tripod and view camera out on landscape /architecture projects: get the Pentax 645D or a Fuji mirrorless. Today in 2019, all else is madness (at unconscionable expense).

Edited March 19, 2019 by orsetto

Thanks for all your comments! Thanks in particular to you, Orsetto, for taking the time to explain all of that.

 

Bonus question: How did Leica & Hasselblad make it into a budged thread at all?

The bodies are affordable. Hey hey!

The bodies are affordable.

 

Yes, sort of, but that isn't the whole picture: Jochen was making the point that neither Hasselblad nor Leica S2 can reasonably be considered "budget" choices. Perhaps we should have asked you to clarify exactly what "budget" means in your terms: do you have a definite limit of how much money you can spend on an MFD kit, or are you flexible on cost but looking for the best value items? There's a difference: definite fixed low-end budget limits choice to 645D or Fuji mirrorless (and adapted cheap lenses). More flexible finances means you can reasonably consider other options, shopping for the best deal via used or demo etc.

 

There are roughy two classes of MFD system: integrated focal plane shutter oriented, which are basically jumbo-sensored versions of Nikon/Canon, or systems with leaf shuttered lenses and/or removable digital backs. The former is less expensive and more familiar if you're new to MFD, the latter offer flash and/or movement options that are crucial to some professionals (or dedicated amateurs), at far more expensive prices These more "pro" systems have usually been around a long time, which results in a few bargains on older bodies, but everything else in the system remains very very expensive or problematic for amateur use.

 

Hasselblad and Leica both exemplify this paradox. The older Hasselblad HD3II and Lecia S2 bodies can be found at (seemingly) attractive prices, but once you start looking at lenses and accessories the cost skyrockets compared to Pentax 645D or Fuji mirrorless. Other than the standard 80mm, Haselblad's electronic leaf shuttered H lenses are very pricey (and the 80mm isn't exactly cheap). Leica lens prices are just insane- the S2 can use other lenses (Hasselblad, Contax, etc) with an adapter, but the adapters each cost as much as a used 645D. You see where I'm going with this: Hasselblad and Leica are high-end systems with no consideration at all given to the needs of non-pro, non-wealthy users. Older bodies selling cheaply are an aberration caused by age depreciation: the remaining 95% of these systems will always be hyper-expensive. Hasselblad also tends to be a very shaky corporate entity these days, with limited or no support for older H body parts/service (which trust me, you will need).

 

Mamiya/Phase One takes things a step further, with premium Schneider lenses (and digital backs alone that cost as much as a small Mercedes). You can use ancient cheap Mamiya film lenses in front of them, but if you can afford a $50K camera, why would you? True, there are older Mamiya 645 camera/back combos that are affordable, and many old cheap Mamiya 645 lenses are quite good (esp the teles). But the older Mamiya 645 bodies are fraught with electromechanical issues and "gotcha" incompatibilities with some backs.

 

Which brings us back to Pentax 645D and Fuji mirrorless. Both are sealed boxes with integrated body/sensor: this eliminates most (probably all) the problems one encounters with older body/back combos. Both have affordable lens options: Pentax with its own extensive 645 and 6x7 lineup, and Fuji via inexpensive dumb adaptors. Like its inspiration (the Sony A7R), Fuji GFX has excellent, pricey native AF lenses but is easily adaptable to use virtually any MF lens from any system (as well as a surprising number of 35mm-format lenses).

 

If you have unlimited funds, really need leaf shutters for flash and removable back to use on a view camera, then Hasselblad H or Phase One is your ticket. The Leica S system gives you a scaled-up digital Leica R experience, with fantastic glass at fantastic prices. Hasselblad X1D is a luxury compact with amazing (and expensive) leaf-shutter lenses. Lotsa money provides you lotsa choices. Not so much money? Pentax 645D if you want AF, Fuji GFX if you don't mind using adapted manual-focus glass (or spending a little more to get the incredible Fuji AF 32mm-64mm zoom).

Edited March 20, 2019 by orsetto