Boy Scout Photography merit badge pamphet cover.

well Fred back when i was involved with kids, flip phones were popular. today phone cameras are so advanced in comparrison. have you seen this?....

Pixter Pro Pack

but aside what they have access to... alowing them an oportunity to use better equipment as well as see improvements in their work as a result, is all they need as inspiration. im not asking them to buy cameras, i let them shoot my cameras when they advance. how can you learn photography if you use an all auto p&s? dof, different lenses n effects, exposure adjustments are a mystery if a computer is doing the job for ya. we want mindless kids? educate them so they have the control and understand the art n science of it... even using a pinhole camera as a learning tool.

but to limit them to only what they have access to now as kids, is just traping their imaginations and inhibiting their potential.

i guess you will only drive that old ford you took the road test in? ever wanted to try a farari? i give them dreams fred... expose them to everything and let them know what their options are. kids grow up and that means better toys... at least they saw whats available and what it can do. some of those kids will become photographers or race car drivers. most will never want or need anything more than a cell phone camera and the old ford... but they can say they know a little about it.

what it boils down to is use what you have, but at least know there is greener grass if you want it. how advanced do you want to be?

btw you mention what they can only afford?.... their cell phones cost more than a pro quality medium format camera. you can get an rb67 with 2 lenses for $300... a used canon dslr with a kit lens is under $500.... the new iphone is $900! so what they can actually afford is relative to what tgeir parents are willing to waste their money on.... mom n dad are buying the phones, why not get them a camera too if tge kid shows an interest?

we want mindless kids?

No.

educate them so they have the control and understand the art n science of it...

I'm all for the kind of education you're offering them. I did not question the eduction part or learning about the nuances of shooting in non-auto modes. I questioned your suggesting (whether to them or to me) that cell phone cameras were unreal in comparison to film cameras. When they get the education you're talking about, they may still make the choice to shoot great photos with their cell phones and shouldn't be made to feel inferior (or less of a "real" photographer) for doing so.

but to limit them to only what they have access to now as kids, is just traping their imaginations and inhibiting their potential.

I wasn't advocating limiting them to what they've got. I was saying that many kids will be limited for a variety of reasons to cell phones and they have the potential to be good photographers, develop good eyes, and learn lots about how to make a good picture. Their cameras shouldn't be compared negatively to "real" cameras. This conversation has been about the Boy Scouts and many of them simply won't have the opportunity or desire to work with other cameras than the ones they have and that should suffice for their purposes.

how advanced do you want to be?

I have a 5D and a cell phone. I like using both of them and get good results with both of them and use them each a little differently and find different situations for each. They don't compete with each other. They complement each other. I judge my advancement by my photos, not my equipment.

i guess you will only drive that old ford you took the road test in?

Believe it or not, that's exactly what I took my road test in, a big old green Ford Custom (that I paid $500 for when I graduated college) and drove it across country to California where I've stayed for the last 43 years. Now I drive a Subaru Legacy. It gets me where I want to go. I take public transportation a lot, to help the environment and because the traffic and parking here are hell! :)

ever wanted to try a farari?

No. Not my thing.

hahahaha still have that old ford? ill bet its a collector by now.

fred you actally answer your own questions.... each tool has its use. you reach the limiting factor and find another tool better suited for the job. 5d vs cell phone.

suppose you had an oportunity to try a farari on a track? think youd notice any difference between the cars? its the experience they take with them... holding a real camera does exactly that. they get a taste.... and thats what merrit badges are all about. merit badges arent meant to train anyone for jobs, they are introductions with enough meat to give the boys options to do things they might never otherwise.

The question I’m asking is why you refer to cameras other than cell phone cameras as “real.” You’ve answered a whole lot of other questions you seem to think or are pretending to think I’ve asked, but not that one.

No. I don’t have the Ford, lol. It died buried in about 30 inches of snow on a winter trip to Boston.

" REAL" you keep pulling out of context is for the adult audiance here who i supose are photographers or enthusiests that know the difference between cameras. if you want me to call it something else, real offends you, tell me what you want me to call them? i try to make everyone happy.

comparing a system camera eg rb67 or a hassie,to a cell phone camera... what do you think the correct terminology should be other than real? phones werent designed to be cameras, its a value added feature. recently its becoming a more developed camera. but not nealy the level of a pro level camera where the user will need to know certain things to use it. you may see a cult developing around cell phone cameras like polaroids... but still point n shoot mindless cameras you cant really call cameras, maybe recorders will make happy?

so getting back to kids... i let them drive my farari for the experiance of driving a real car. they get to realize differences and get to use the mush between their ears.

what do you think the correct terminology should be other than real?

Different.

you may see a cult developing around cell phone cameras like polaroids...

Part of teaching kids to use their imagination could be a teacher who's able to recognize not only the creative possibilities in either cell phones or polaroids but the creative accomplishments already existent with these cameras. Your calling them cults really comes as no surprise and probably doesn't carry the shock value you were stretching for, given the history and importance of both cameras.

LINK

LINK

I could find similar links for art photography being done with cell phones but, since you're the teacher I'll let you do the research yourself. Maybe even better if you have your kids do the research as a way to offer them an alternative perspective from their teacher's.

Here's a diptych I recently put together from two photos I took with my iPhone. If I remember correctly, I took them when returning from my meeting with the local chapter of Cultists for Cellphones, a group of local citizens dedicated to the use of unreal cameras with the sole malicious purpose of undermining real photography and real photographers.

The reason I took these with my cell phone is that they were quick grabs taken more out of instinct than preparation and I didn't think I needed my 5D to get what I wanted and didn't have it with me anyway. Generally, I don't use my iPhone camera to take more formal portraits and considered photos because the iPhone doesn't usually give me the kind of results and possibilities I want when doing that sort of work. There are exceptions.

Kids who aren't taught the possibilities in and the power of the cell phones that are always in their pocket, while at the same time being taught about the differences between their cell phone and their other types of cameras, are getting an incomplete picture.

Lovely pix Fred. I love the colors and your perspective. Well done.

Thanks. :)

FWIW Here is my article on the 1948 Boy Scout Merit Badge in photography:

Could you qualify for a 1948 Boy Scout Photography Merit Badge?

Speaking of cell phones as cameras, I was taking photos (Nikon film cameras) in New Orleans' French Quarter last year (as I am wont to do). As I was walking along behind several people, one of them was blasting away with a cell phone. I don't know how many photos he took in the 30 seconds I was behind him, but if he gave more than 2 seconds deliberation per photo, I'm a monkey's uncle. Talk about spray and pray.

Hmm... why would you want

to be a lowly monkey's

uncle...?

http://bayouline.com/o2.gif

I don't know how many photos he took in the 30 seconds I was behind him, but if he gave more than 2 seconds deliberation per photo, I'm a monkey's uncle.

There may be no reason for him to have given more than 2 seconds of deliberation to each photo. I can think of so many reasons why he may have been doing this. They range from . . . a guy with a camera shouldn't necessarily be thought of as or compared to a photographer . . . to . . . he was documenting his walk or something he was seeing as he was walking and wanted a series of quick snaps . . . to . . . he knew he could take a hundred photos and then go back and choose "the best" . . . to . . . it's a form of turrets . . . :rolleyes:

FWIW Here is my article on the 1948 Boy Scout Merit Badge in photography:

 

Could you qualify for a 1948 Boy Scout Photography Merit Badge?

Developing and darkroom :-)

#1 - Focusing scale, does not even exist on many of the new cameras.

Not to mention bellows.

#3 - Chemicals in a developer and fixer. Unless I read the box/can, I could not tell you than even when was developing/printing.

I wonder if the 1948 requirements were based on mixing your own chemicals from scratch, which I never did.

“I think we can do better than that”.

He bought a canoe and the two of us crossed the Mississippi River and camped on a sand bar. Thus began many years of

“Out scouting the Scouts” in a canoe on that river with a .22 revolver in a holster he made me, exploring endless sandbars, run outs, and bar pits.

I got to be Huck Finn and in a funny way, have an organization I never joined to thank for it.

Your dad is alright in my book :D

We pitched the tent on the sand and crashed. Later that night the moon was up and Dad woke me up to see the riverboat "Delta Queen" churn by upstream, fully lit and in the river's moonlight

That would be a photo I'd have killed to have seen, much less just be here to see it.

I am an unapologetic steamboat fan, and consider it a great shame that politics and stubborness may never allow the beautiful Delta Queen to be under steam again.

I wish that the Belle of Louisville regularly ventured further than its "normal" ~6 mile track in downtown Louisville. I know some prime riverfront places where I'd love to catch it during a midnight cruise, but I don't think it travels that far and there are too many lights right in downtown.

As for merit badges-I never was a scout, but when I was in college I worked several times with groups on doing the Chemistry merit badge. The Scouts worked with my college to set up a one day "workshop" every year where several merit badges were offered-after we were done with Chemistry I'd always go and observe the Model Railroading badge which was done by someone not affiliated with the school but who I knew through the local club.

In any case, I think that the Chemistry merit badge COULD have been done at home. Part of it included a lecture with demonstrations, though, which I think helped give a more complete picture. The experiments were designed to be done with stuff around the house, and I made a couple of last minute runs to the grocery store over the years because we wanted to actually use "household supplies." Of course, we got in a few other pinches where we made something equivalent to a household item from stuff on hand, but that was usually a last resort.

There was an accompanying sound to the sight that night......Probably what woke Dad up.

Note the lady playing at the end when she takes a bow....

Folks in Louisville get annoyed at it, but when I see the tell-tale cloud of steam coming from the Belle at the waterfront I have to roll down my windows and smile.

This is probably more than anyone cares to know, but the 24 whistles on the Delta Queen are part of a set of three known as the "three sisters" built the well-known calliope maker Nichols(BTW, folks on riverboats prefer the pronunciation "Cally-ope" or just call it a "steam piano). All three went on riverboats, and one of those went onto the then Str. Idlewild in the mid 1920s(a boat which would later become the Avalon and then the Belle of Louisville).

The Str. Avalon Calliope was sold separately from the boat in 1964, and was bought by the former master. The last I heard, he still had it in his garage in New Orleans and occasionally hooks up an air compressor and plays it. One of the other instruments was on a boat that sank, and the whistles were salvaged. I THINK those are the ones on the Delta Queen. I forget the lineage of the third, but it's now in self-contained wagon owned by IUPUI.

Then, back in 1994, someone took on the project of making a reproduction fitting for the Str. Belle of Louisville, which hadn't really had a satisfactory calliope since 1964. They measured the Delta Queen and IUPUI whistles, and cast a pretty darn faithful(very near identical) replica. 25 years later, that instrument is still serving the Belle well.

As a side note, somewhere along the way the Delta Queen whistle bells were gold plated. Given their location on the boat, it made sense as keeping the bare brass looking nice was a nightmare. Unfortunately, many folks almost immediately noticed a change in sound. Recordings aren't always faithful, but I've heard it played(in person) next to the Belle calliope and the Delta Queen whistles definitely lost their "shrill" edge and have a more mellow sound after being plated. Blindfolded, I couldn't tell the difference between the IUPUI calliope and the Belle, but the Delta Queen does stand out. Still, it's a pleasure to me to hear any of them, and I wish we could hear the Queen on the rivers again.

That would be a great Scout photography trip.....

"Cally-ope"...Funny you should mention that, that's what Grandady used to call them.

This is the only steamboat I'm familiar with:

New Orleans' Only Steamboat | Steamboat NATCHEZ

I did earn the Photography merit badge about 45 years ago.

About 10 years ago, I signed up to be a counselor for it in Seattle, but have had no

requests by any scouts interested.

I forget now which camera was on the cover when I did mine.

Photography Merit Badge Pamphlet, 1920

has a picture of the cover of the 1920 version.

Scouting Memorabilia :: National BSA Issued Items :: Books & Paper :: Merit Badge Books :: Type 7 MBP Full Picture 1966 - 1971 - page 2

has a picture of the 1969 book.

I'm trying to remember what picture was on the cover of the merit badge book around 1960. I don;t recall keeping any of that stuff, and if I did it will be buried in an outbuilding. I have a probably unreliable memory of an Argus "brick" appearing somewhere there though.

The cover shown in the link above does not look familiar, either in picture or format, and I'm sure my book was at least one printing earlier.

Oh wait, here it is, I think - a folder of some sort I think, but the badge itself looked a bit brickish

Scouting Memorabilia :: National BSA Issued Items :: Books & Paper :: Merit Badge Books :: Type 6 MBP Picture Top Red Bottom 1953 - 1965 :: Photography MBP