Photography is art and art is subjective. So why argue about it. And then again why not?

Too late to erase my last comments. I got a little too 'up in the clouds' with my thoughts- over the rainbow or too much left over egg nog with spirits... I like to think I have a multiplex mind, when it is more of a torrent of half baked sentences. Meaning, I need to re read my own stream of consciousness, take own advice be more of an editor to my own blather. I still pay respect to snap shots. No excuses for them is all. And Tim, I think we do get your message and reflections in case you wondered.

I didn't think you got too up in the clouds with your previous statement, Gerry. It was quite a clear summation. I had $5 a bottle of Oak Leaf Merlot from Walmart last night. Best tasting for the price.

Your mentioning "thinking people" made me be more succinct about my thoughts on critiques that are time and place inappropriate in that when it's the wrong place and time can indicate the critic is thinking more of them self.

Quality of snapshots will follow quality of the serious stuff.

Deliberate thoughtful practice creates skilled mindfulness which translates to good habits.

 

Easier said than done.

That's an interesting and original take on the ol' cliched...practice, practice, practice. Skilled mindfulness. I gotta' remember that.

I wonder how that could be applied in critiquing a female photographer's gallery of work she created by screenshots she took of Google street views where her exhibition was featured in a Google video linked to on Google's search page.

Could she even be considered a photographer at this point? I guess the only critique applicable is the tried and true..."Well seen".

Meet the artist who photographed the world without leaving home | Google

A useful goal, Michael. It could top the New Years Resolution list as well. One gent, to showcase what bites hard and even now comes to mind, is the community member who reacted strongly to a comment I made about one of his portraits, a casual one. It was about the background being messy and obvious. So stating the obvious may have been out of bounds when the shooter was clearly a semi professional. He replied using my biography and sort of sticking it to me with some of my personal history. Yes, I guess we all want to know like who is this critter who thinks they know better. Do we then use confirmation bias when looking at his or her work? Clearly yes. Now the larger and more vexing question. How do we clear the mind of personal bias when looking at someone's work if they have quote got under our skin? ( On today's newscast I heard Rep Sanford decry oil rigs off the SC coast. How and when can I get out of my mind the escapades in Latin America. Sorry, politics just clouds everything lately and this PN should be a free zone.) I guess I say that we can use our prejudices if we are not so enthralled by them that they own us. Funny image. In the movie On the Town, one of the swabbies rushes through a modern art museum in a quick cut that shows their pursuit of Miss Turnstiles. One sailor just grabs a Picasso or whatever and swings it upside down on the wall.... Funny in a way and hit me so. Sometimes it does good to stand on your head once and a while looking at stuff. Or stand back. Or try this or that. Maybe someone out there can help us look at art in a different way. Who says that the Mondrian should be hung that way, --you know?

Gerry, thanks for sharing your own personal experiences from this 'colorful' world of photo critic. The way this guy reacted is clearly because posting photos is a ego boosting exercise for him. He/she doesn't really expect to know anything new from the online community, The way, I would deal with such situations is, stick up the facts to him. His background IS messy, thats the truth, no matter whether my own photos are crap or I only show up at the forum to bash others. One great thing about these forums is, when you state the truth, it does get noticed, no mater how hard people try to bully.

You ask a good question: how do we clear our minds of biases when looking at other people's works. My solution is, try not to look at the artist's name while seeing the work, if at all possible. Here at PN, I avoid looking at photographers' identities while browsing through the photos in No Words threads, because I don't want my personal biases for or against them to affect my experience of their works. Also, one can be a great photographer and still be egotistic, or jealous, or not want critiques from anonymous sources, and lash out at others. Those are his/her choices, as is his/her decision to display works online, a choice that can be made prudently based on the artists' temperament towards third-party opinions on their works.

Continuing from the last paragraph, if I like a person's photos (I consider him talented) and that person returns my critiques of his work with personal attacks and (scathing) criticisms of my own work, I might welcome that as an opportunity to engage him. Some exchanges are messy, but there may be an opportunity to learn. Heck, if noone would ever say anything but nice things about my own works, unless I hit him with a critique, so be it! :)

Lastly, when I read your post about the lady who responds to your comment with the 'snapshot' justification, I wonder how many of my significant photos would be thrown away by now (or trashed away in the attic) if I compartmentalized them into snapshots vs artistic pursuits. We really should be eating and sleeping (and going to the bathroom) with our hobby. If I am a photographer, I can't be one only during planned photo trips. At least, that doesn't work for me. This was taken during horseplay with my daughter (LOL).

You ask a good question: how do we clear our minds of biases when looking at other people's works. My solution is, try not to look at the artist's name while seeing the work, if at all possible.

I totally understand this and have done the same thing myself.

The flip side of the coin is that I also think individual photos are important and can be seen differently as they relate to and are part of larger bodies of work. So, knowing whose photo it is enables me to put it into context and come at it as rounding out the bigger picture. It also allows me to appreciate photos relative to the skills and progress of the photographer rather than relative to a more objective standard.

For instance, a photo may be going for a high contrast, Moriyama-like style. Let's say, without knowing who produced it, my feeling is that it's kind of adequate but has a ways to go in terms of how well the style is achieved and works with the content. If it turns out to have been done by someone who's produced really excellent high contrast, Japanese-influenced stuff on a fairly regular basis, I will have a different take on it than if it's produced by someone who's got nothing like it in their portfolio and seems to be just getting started in the experimental stages of doing this work. I may very well LIKE it if it belongs to the second photographer but not if it belongs to the first, who's already shown she can do much better work. A particular scene shot a certain way might not have that much interest for me absent context. Yet, it could very well be supported by a portfolio that gives the scene more sense and helps me relate to the style in a way I might otherwise not.

I recently saw a Hockney exhibit in NY. There were some things I might not have otherwise thought much of but because I could locate them within the progress of his art, see where the origins were and where they may have been leading, my appreciation of them could be much richer. Art is a process as much as a collection of things. Mozart's early sonatas produced by a mature Beethoven wouldn't get great reviews and likely would be harshly panned. But written by a kid, they are pretty impressive and knowing where Mozart eventually went with his music and hearing the beginning strains of that genius in his early work is meaningful and changes the equation.

Supriyo, thanks for your thoughts. Now, to be fair, the messy background guy replied that he knew it was messy at the time and he had only a minute to compose and shoot. That would have been enough to settle the matter. But then he went into a rant about my former military status and a lot of baloney about his military status. I mean we all have stereotypes. If you think all Bostonians are thus, and you think all San Franciscans are so, then maybe one looks for someone on line to knock off and feel better. I may be projecting, But shoot, all officers are not assholes as one guy said on line. Some officers are assholes. I knew a few:) I digress. But we people are interesting as ever. Such pre conceptions kill the give and take so fast it makes heads spin and photos are part of the fabric of our outlook and mutual experience. We do need to disenthrall one way or another and I guess this is what the value of the discussion boils down to.

PS, As for messy or cluttered background, they are often what makes a photo for me. This is my guitar teacher way back in Manoa Valley. I never learned well but I know at least three chords fairly well...goal was to learn to sing folk songs. She was my mentor in that post Woodstock days when folk was going out of favor. Somenone mentioned Mozart The sonatas. To die for. Haydn's as well.

I just came across an almost forgotten Photo of the Week discussion on an interesting photo. It was respectful and had the benefit of an explanation by the poster of why he chose what he chose. And such was elicited by the comments, even those which were admiring. Such discussions fulfill the educative part of looking at the same image from different perspectives. Images which produce strong reactions are by themselves deserve merit as conversation openers. And bridge the different outlook of the community. At least as it was when there was some strong but moderate voices. If you have a half hour, check it out here, enjoy.

Resident Evil (Click for larger view ....if you dare) | Photo.net

...No charge for the brainstorm....

Hmm... brainstorm: a rare

and often fatal phenomenon...

http://bayouline.com/o2.gif

Hmm... brainstorm: a rare

and often fatal phenomenon...

http://bayouline.com/o2.gif

I signed up for a DNA /23 and Me quest, Vince, and sure enough it led all the way back to my simian forebears bless 'em :)