medium format projectors for slide film

<p>Hi,<br>

I was lookin for some film projectors for 6*7 and came across this on web :</p>

<p>1) CABIN PROCABIN 67-Z MEDIUM FORMAT SLIDE PROJECTOR by MAMIYA</p>

<p>2)hasselblad pcp- 80</p>

<p>3) rollei 6*6 dia</p>

<p> of this , only 1) looks like it supports 6 * 7 .</p>

<p> 2 is possibly very expensive and supports only 6*6.</p>

<p>any suggestions?</p>

<p> what slide mounts are available ? I use gepe plastic mounts for 35mm</p>

<p>thanks in advance.</p>

<p>I'm not sure about availability or distributors, but there are also 6x7 projectors from Götschmann/Gecko-Cam:<br>

<a href="http://www.gecko-cam.com/sales/goetschmann/produkte-products/">

http://www.gecko-cam.com/sales/goetschmann/produkte-products/</a></p>

<p>The cardboard mounts are nearly impossible to find now. I still have 50 (6x7) that I don't need. Let me know if you want them.</p>

<p>The Cabin projector is the least expensive. This one linked below seems to be mostly in good condition (except for a cracked condenser - if interested I would certainly request an image of the condenser from the seller and other questions) at less than 500$ US from a USA source and he states he is willing to ship tracked packages overseas. They were upwards of 1200$ new. The Götschmann projector seems like a top notch one with Schneider-Kreuznach optics, but expect to pay more than even the expensive Hasselblad 6x6 projector.<br /> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/CABIN-PROCABIN-67-Z-MEDIUM-FORMAT-SLIDE-PROJECTOR-by-MAMIYA-w-EXTRAS-/301589491403?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4638226ecb <br /> They pop up from time to time so if you are not in a hurry you should be able to find one. There was also a Linhof/Leitz Prado Universal Typ 31.047.500 projector available long ago but probably rare.</p>

<p>This is an old list but shows what was then available:<br>

http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/proj_667.htm</p>

<p>Sanjay, as you are probably aware, most of the projectors mentioned are no longer made. 6x7 projectors are hard to come by and very expensive - and so are the slide mounts. It would be easier to find a 6x6 projector, although these aren't exactly common either. You best bet is to keep an eye on flea bay as they do crop up occasionally.</p>

<p>Gepe makes 54 x 68 mm (effectively for 6 x 7 cameras) glassless or glass mounts. You can buy direct from them, glassless being available from Internet in lots of 10 for $16.85 U.S. As one needn't project every frame shot, this can often be a solution for a high impact slide presentation (40 to 80 slides, 10 to 20 seconds per image, with or without music, commentary, fade in-fade out).</p>

<p>If you want 6x7, as far as I know only the Götschmann exists and it is freakingly expensive. You can still buy it new, though.</p>

<p>If you limit yourself to 6x6, more options become available. To the best of my knowledge no projector is currently available new. The most renowned one, and therefore the most expensive, is the Hasselblad PCP-80 whose prices on the used market are generally anywhere north of $1000. A few Rolleis exist, I do not have experience with them but they should be good too. In my case, I found a used "Leisegang" on German Ebay for around 100 Euros (okay, that was 10 years ago). I did not know it when I bid for the auction, but the projector came with a high-quality glass lens. I have been very pleased with the projection quality of the projector (image sharpness, illumination flatness etc). I would be very interested to compare it to a PCP-80, by the way. So give yourself time and look for this kind of deal.</p>

<p>6x6 glass mounts are available and manufactured by Gepe. A box of 20 mounts costs $25. With slides this side, I really, really do not recommend glassless mounts. Film flatness will be terrible and you will lose all the sharpness of the slides. So do yourself and your audience a favor and spend the extra $10 for the glass version. You can reuse the mounts at will hence this will not have the highest financial impact on MF slide projection if you reuse.</p>

<p>Hope this helps, let us know if you have further questions!<br>

Etienne</p>

<p>Sanjay,<br>

One of the reasons I choose the 6x6 format was my intention to project my transparencies. I used and still own a Kinderman 66 projector. It is completely manual, but does the job well. I always mounted my slides using Geep Glass Mounts. </p>

 

<p>I'm going to make an assumption that the OP doesn't already have a 67 camera or 67 slides he wants to project, and is exploring a potential camera choice in the context that he would want to choose a format where he knows he can see the slides to good advantage.</p>

<p>I shot MF slides (6x6 and 67 ) for ten years at the rate of about 5000 slides a year, so here's some points of view based on that.</p>

<p>1. You can buy projectors for 67 or 6x6. Both will be scarce and expensive . They are both likely to be well used and depending on where you are, not too easy to get fixed if there's a problem because you can't exactly pop these projectors in the post. If my experience is anything to go by it will be easier to find a 6x6 projector ( also handles 645 well) that handles slides in trays whereas the Cabin I've used takes mounted slides two at a time and changes via a push/pull mechanism. Both the Hasselblad 6x6 and the Cabin will make your slides look wonderful if they're in mounts the projector likes. Naturally magazine-loading projectors are a more convenient to use.</p>

<p>2. Though projectors will be expensive this is as nothing compared to the price of the mounts. I'm not sure you can get card slide mounts today- or at least the pre-glued ones. The Gepe glassless mounts don't hold 6x6 slides solidly or flat in my view so I'm suggesting that 67 will be the same or worse. If you're going to project you need to be thinking about glass slides. If you use a lot of these you'd better prepare yourself for high costs , heavy weight and a lot of bulk. In Europe, Gepe 67 glass mounts cost c £2 each, and 6x6 about £1.20</p>

<p>3. Unless you're very rich, or intend to take just a few MF slides, you're going to need to think up a strategy to keep costs, weight and bulk down. Do you intend to project everything you take? Do you intend to mount slides only when you decide to project them , keeping slides unmounted in archival sleeves. Its not a convenient strategy - it will take you hours to put together a 100 slide presentation- but at least it means you only have to buy 100 mounts. Do you intent to mount only (say) the top 10% of what you take, and not project the others. </p>

<p>4. If you do intend to just take a few MF slides, you might want to think about whether the fixed costs involved ( camera etc, projector) are worthwhile to get you a few pictures. If you're going to take lots then you have to consider whether you want to afford those fixed costs and the variable costs of film, processing, mounting( according to your selected strategy) , archival sheets and albums to store both mounted and unmounted slides, and so on. </p>

<p>5. It was easier when I did it. Film, processing, mounts were all much cheaper than now. And you could buy much cheaper card mounts that worked ok in the Cabins though not so well with the Hasselblad 6x6 because they were slimmer and lighter than the Gepe mounts.</p>

<p>6. You might want to think now where you're going to keep all this stuff. I'm lucky, I have a fairly large room in my home kitted out as an office, but even so I have 20+ albums full of mounted slides (mostly card mounts); if they were all glass mounted that would grow to 50 albums, and I have another 30 albums of slides I've kept but not mounted. Add a projector and a MF camera system and a Lightbox and you need a bit of space. </p>

<p>7. For looking at slides on my own, I found that a light-table and a good loupe was cheaper, easier, and more convenient. And you can see the slides well enough to assess them for print potential etc. </p>

<p>If you get to be good at MF photography using slide film projecting your work will give huge satisfaction. But its not something that comes along cost or effort-free. Best that you make a start understanding where the path leads. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Not sure it exists in 6x7 projector optics, but Leitz 35 mm projectors could be fitted with flat field or curved field optics, one for glass mounted slides, the other for the more prevalent cardboard mounts. As mentioned, the Gepe 6 x 7 slide mounts are available glass or glassless. </p>

<p>If I were you I would trust my own judgement and try both to see what the trade-off really is with the projector lens you may acquire. Also, the trade-off with the much less expensive Cabin 6 x 7 projector may not de that great compared to the very expensive Götschmann. In some cases and conditions a weak link can be the resolution fall-off with distance from centre of the particular wide angle camera lens. There are also different qualities in projector optics. </p>

<p>I do agree that 6 x 7 projection quality can be very impressive.</p>

 

<p>I shoot MF 6x7 in very small amounts. I never have projected them. So I'm sure that I've missed something. But I do scan them and show them on HDTV. With the upcoming UHDTV and 4x the pixels being displayed than standard HD TV, I assume the presentation will be even better. You may find this option better for you in the long run. Good luck on whatever you decide.</p>

<p>MF slide projection requires a lot of time and money. Only Gepe slide mounts are readily available and they are bad. I have to hunt for Titania and Wess mounts (and some others) on Ebay, they're much better but old and dirty, have to clean each glass which is very tedious.<br>

As for projectors, I'm thinking about buying PCP80, it's obviously the best MF projector. Currently I have several Rollei projectors but unfortunately and surprisingly their construction doesn't ensure slides stay strictly parallel to the lens/screen. <br>

It's all about 6x6, I wouldn't go with 6x7 if you don't have a camera already and want to project, the biggest issue is absence of 6x7 mounts.</p>

<p><em>Only Gepe slide mounts are readily available and they are bad. I have to hunt for Titania and Wess mounts (and some others) on Ebay, they're much better but old and dirty, have to clean each glass which is very tedious.</em><br>

Well, Gepe mounts aren't exactly bad, but they're certainly not well designed. The glass mounts don't always hold the film flat due to the aluminium masking frame which creates a gap between the glass surfaces.<br>

Regarding cleaning dirty slide mounts, even brand new Gepe mounts have to be cleaned before use!</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Well, Gepe mounts aren't exactly bad, but they're certainly not well designed. The glass mounts don't always hold the film flat due to the aluminium masking frame which creates a gap between the glass surfaces.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's the thing - the purpose of glass mounts is to keep the slide flat, if they don't do this due to their design, they're bad :)</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Regarding cleaning dirty slide mounts, even brand new Gepe mounts have to be cleaned before use!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Honestly, I don't remember having to do this with Gepe mounts, maybe just occasional stains and dust, but not entire glass covered in some substance.</p>

I bought into the RZ system some 4 years back. Then started hunting for a projector. Several manufacturers made 67

projectors but most are impossible to find today even used. Of the ones you list the pro cabin is the only one that can do

67. But I never found even one on the used auction sites. I did find and buy the Goetschmann used in Munich. You can

buy it new from Gecko- cam in Munich but the cost is too much in my opinion - over 5kEur for projector alone when I had

last checked. Your best chance is to keep looking at auction sites in Germany. Germany was apparently biggest market

for slide films and one will surely pop up around Munich area.

For mounts I use Gepe AN but these were discontinued couple of years back. I had been in touch with Gepe and the guy

said there was little hope of a new production run due to low qty. But I checked a few minutes ago and they are available

on the Gepe online store!! Prices are much higher than what I paid at B&H NY in the past.

Overall 67 projection is expensive and supplies of mounts are not easy to come by. But the projected image is a thing of

beauty........

I have a Noblex camera that takes panoramic images on 135 film. I mostly shoot reversal film - I prefer it to negative film for a couple of reasons - but I've never had any of my images projected. In fact, I've never seen a projected slide of any sort! People talk about how good it looks, so I've always been curious how my Noblex images would look projected. They measure 24mm x 66mm, so a 6x7 projector would be required (Gepe even made 6x7 mounts with apertures for this reasonably uncommon format), but at this stage (and price), I'll probably never actually get to see.

<p>I wonder if projection is over rated. Ive never seen MF projected but did have a 35mm slide projector. If you're scanning and digitizing your pictures anyway, HDTV and UHDTV or digital slide projection might be the way to go. Projection has dust and a lot of crap displayed, costly, hard to set up, store, etc. Also, once you start to set up, all your friends will make excuses why they have to go home. With digital display, especially on HDTV or UHDTV, you just turn on the TV and start the show. Background music and narration in the program just adds to the enjoyment.</p>

<p>All very well using an HD TV for your slides, but the format isn't suitable for portrait or vertical images due to the small vertical dimensions of TV screens. Now if TV screens were square....<br /> Vitaliy, if you've never had to clean a new Gepe mount before use, you must have access to a special supply of Gepe mounts! There is always a film of crud on the ones I've bought - and in fact I usually wash mine in detergent before use. Incidentally, I have never found a slide mount that keeps the slide perfectly flat - but Gepe are the best of a bad bunch, and I've tried various makes over the years. If Gepe were truly bad, nobody would use them.<br /> Having said all that, it's only a small number where corner to corner sharpness is a problem - most are okay.</p>

<p>David, I wonder how you clean them? That's a major problem for me even with mounts where glass can be removed (unlike Gepe). I can't find any automated way to clean and dry many mounts at once that won't leave water stains or lot of dust. So I'm cleaning each glass manually which is very time-consuming.<br>

As I said, I'm using Titania and Wess mounts which are old and thus require cleaning, and only occasionally can be found on Ebay (although not something very exotic). In Titania mounts there's nothing between glass and film, and in Wess there's only a very thin tape in corners, so they're definitely better than Gepe.<br>

So, for some reason, my experience is a bit different to yours.</p>

<p>Vitaliy, I just wash them in warm water witha small amount of detergent. Rinse them off and dry them as best I can with a cloth - it's impossible to dry them properly as the mounts don't come apart. You just have to let them dry naturally which does leave some drying marks especially if you live in a hard water area. The drying marks can be removed with a micro fiber cloth and some elbow grease! Incidentally, the mounts aren't covered in dirt when new, but always have a faint film on the suraface of the glass similar to what you get on the inside of your car windscreen.<br>

The other mounts you mention aren't available in my country, so I cannot comment on them.<br>

I guess this is one big advantage of digital projection!</p>

<p>ranjan, what do you use the RZ for ? can it be used for outdoor work?<br /><br />I did see procabin on ebay us and the goetschman on ebay germany.<br />I have relatives in US and can have it shipped to them. I bought my 35mm projector <br />on e-bay usa. I am not sure whether it would be a good idea to ship from germany to usa: I am afraid of it breaking in transit and also the difficulty of customs process.<br>

I will also have to check supply voltage and frequency of projector for suitability here.<br /><br />On the glass mounts, I am not sure where they are available. I checked BH, but that seemed suitable for panoramic.<br />Also, is there a chance of fungus growing on slides? I live in a place with very high humidity. I keep my camera equipment in dry cabinet, which regulates humidity.</p>

<p>other question of 1) linhof 2) mamiya procabin and 3) goetschman projectors :<br>

<br />a) which one offers option of viewing more than one slide (like a tray. have a leica 35mm projector where tray allows loading 50 slides at time ). <br>

b) which one remains cool without affecting slide ? ( bought leica pradovit ca 2500 as it is supposed to not overheat )<br>

<br />c) while buying any of the above, which lens should I look for in each case ? for the leica, the colorplan was supposed to be the sharper.</p>

<p>thanks all. </p>

<p>Sanjay, All projectors will overheat glass mounted slides if projected for an excessively long time - you just have to experiment and work within the limitations of your chosen projector.<br /> As you live in a country with very high humidity, you may well experience a problem with fungus growth. Can you store your slides in the same cabinet as the camera equipment? I store mine in an airing cupboard where the humidity is presently around 51%. I have never experienced fungus or mould problems with my slides - however, dust is another matter!</p>

<p>thanks a lot. I found this link for wess slides : http://www.wessmounts.net/index.html. Is this same wess slide mounts that people mentioned ?<br>

On gepe, I found this : Gepe 6x7mm Panoramic Medium Format Anti-Newton Glass Slide Mounts with 24 x 65mm Opening (3mm Thick) for Noblex, Hasselblad Xpan and Mamiya 7II Camera with Panoramic Adapter ( on bhphotovideo). I am not sure if this is the right one. (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/182620-REG/Gepe_452702_Panoramic_Medium_Format_Anti_Newton.html )</p>