New Nikon 24-70MM lens issues

<p>I just bought a Nikon 24-70MM lens after reading all the wonderful reviews about the sharpness of the lens. I am using a D90 body and plan on buying a full frame at the end of the year. I bought this lens to shot weddings and large families. I am having an awful time getting a picture that is sharp! I will shoot around 30 photos and only a hand full will come out even remotely acceptable almost all are at 70MM or slightly less. I also own the Nikon 85MM lens to shoot newborns and I have never had this problem with that lens unless I am trying to shoot larger groups. I have 6 families to do this weekend and a group of 15! I really need some help to try to figure out what I am doing wrong. How crisp should an image be when zoomed into 100%? When I zoom in on my viewfinder, I even notice the pictures are not sharp. Should my 85MM be sharper than my 24-70MM by about 50%? This even occurs in auto mode which I do not use to shoot with but tried to see if it improved on the 24-70MM which it did not. It was even worse. What lens should I use to shoot a family of 15? I will be shooting around 3pm and it is in the woods. I have a SB-600 coming tomorrow. I am hoping this will help me be able to shoot at higher aperture than 2.8 because at this setting the images are just not sharp at all! I am thinking of shooting in aperture mode. Is this a good idea or should I go with shutter speed mode? I have my ISO set to automatic. Is that a bad idea? I appreciate anyone who takes the time to respond to my mess I have going on here!</p><div></div>

<p>For image attached, info is: Manual Mode 1/200, ISO 200, F4, 66MM. </p><div></div>

<p>It is possible that there is something wrong with your lens. I think not. The 24-70 is notable for its sharpness even at F-2.8.</p>

<p>You are shooting at 1/200 sec and the 35mm equivalent of 100 mm. As you zoom in you will find that steady hold techniques become more and more important. 1/200 should be fine for your hand-holding but you are shooting a child who wiggles. You will want to keep your shutter speed up for that. Try 1/500 sec to be sure to freeze action. </p>

<p>Next look a what your actual focus point is. Often while watching the composition, we forget this fundamental choice. At F-4, as you can see, your depth of field is pretty shallow. Focus on your subject's eye perhaps? </p>

<p>How are you holding your camera? You are chasing a moving target. That makes it very difficult to hold steady through the shot. I don't know how many times I have seen this. When a photographer becomes absorbed in shooting a subject like a kid it is easy to begin to waive the camera around try to chase the child's movement. Then in a moment of decision mash his finger down on the button, jarring the camera a the moment of exposure. This camera shake softens the image a bunch. Couple that with he child's movements and you get soft results most every time. You can see if this is happening by putting your camera on a tripod and shooting a still subject. Then tell us how those images are working out. <br>

Steady, hold, breathe. Keep repeating that. Keep your breath under control, your shutter speeds up, and your subjects as still as possible and see what happens. </p>

<p>One more recommendation. Make sure you practice with your new flash before you use it on assignment. There is a learning curve. Of you are not really up to snuff on flash then study like crazy to master the flash. It is not plug-and-play.</p>

<p>Someone is going to pipe in here with the assertion that your 85 is a prime and there for supposed to be sharper. That is not how the real world works. For all practical purposes the 24-70 AFS F/2.8 is really sharp. Sharp enough that there should be no appreciable difference. </p>

<p>Stead does it. Good luck</p>

<p>Rick</p>

 

<p>Just to add to Rick`s good advice some other considerations:</p>

<p>First, I prefer to manually set the ISO, this way I`m aware of the quality of the pics I`m shooting. if it is too low for the scenario, I prefer to know I`m raising it and keep it locked. For flash shooting, if 200 is not enough, I use to raise to 400 for a more comfortable session, but if ambient light is really low, to 800... never beyond this.</p>

<p>If you have motion blur/camera shake issues (I agree that is your main issue), maybe it could be a good idea to select shutter priority (as mentioned, fixed at the right speed), or even full manual camera mode (specially if you`re used or like to experiment with flash and a subject/background illumination ratio). Let the flash&camera to automatically control the light output.<br /> If you prefer to shoot in aperture mode, you have to check before every shoot if the shutter speed is above minimum. If not, you are running the risk of having blurred shots.</p>

<p>Off camera flash gives much nicer results to my taste. I think you can remote control the SB600 with your D90 (not sure), so it`s worth to check it before the shoot.</p>

<p>As Rick says, there is a learning curve, flash use could be so tricky; it`s actually not "plug&play" (very well defined!). There are different illumination levels, each one ask for different settings for successful photos. From total darknes to full daylight, there are many points between them. And don`t get stuck to "TTL-BL", there are other flash modes that work better, depending on the scene.</p>

<p>There are quite a few internet sites explaining how to make good use of flash. Strobist is maybe the most popular about the topic.<br /> BTW, when I`m committed to provide the sharpest portraits, I use to take the 24-70.</p>

<p>Strobist`s <a href="http://strobist.blogspot.com.es/2006/03/lighting-101.html">Lighting 101</a>, worth a read.</p>

<p>If the OP gets 50% better pix with the 85mm than the 24-70mm then there's no technique issue, as such. If it was camera shake there'd be <em>even more</em> as it's a longer and lighter lens, not less.</p>

<p>The shots provided are flash illuminated, so going to 1/500th isn't really a simple option. If the ambient is fairly good, and the flash more of a fill-in, there can be a problem with a kind of double image, the long slightly blurred image with shutter of say 1/60, with the sharp frozen image of the flash component @ 1/2000th duration. However, the OP's shot is 1/200th and I cannot see any evidence of that.</p>

<p>For this shot I'd either go wide open ie 2.8 and ensure the eyes are sharp or 5.6/8 and ensure most of the subject is within the DoF....f4 is kinda in-between! However, I can't see anywhere on the cut log's upper surface that I'd call sharp, so I'm not sure where the plane of focus is??</p>

<p>I'm assuming this was shot conventionally, rather than in LV?</p>

<p>Auto ISO has it's place and it's very rarely in formal portraiture..:-)</p>

<p><strong>EDIT.</strong> Is the lens truly NEW or previously enjoyed?</p>

<p>You need to determine what the issue is. It could be a front or back focus problem. Or there could be another issue with the lens.</p>

<p>Based on your sample image, I would guess that your lens/camera combo is perhaps front focusing a bit. The stitching in the pants seems to be more in focus than the face.</p>

<p>I suggest you do some basic troubleshooting/testing using a tripod, a static subject and manual focus. See if you can get any properly focused images.</p>

 

<p>Did you buy the lens new or used?</p>

 

<p>The lens seems to be fine, the first image is back focused a bit if one assumes that the closest eye to the camera (on the right looking at the picture from the viewer's point of view) should be in focus (which may or may not have been your goal). The eye on the left is further from the camera yet it is clearly more in focus than the eye on the right. If you get this kind of effect consistently then you may need to fine tune the focus (if your camera supports it). Personally I think the quality of the image is fine and as expected with this lens and camera at this aperture. The 85mm primes are some of Nikon's very best lenses and it would be expected that they'd be a bit sharper at f/2.8 than the 24-70. With FX the quality is a bit better as you get more image area. Stop down the lens to f/4 or f/5.6 and the results should improve further.</p>

<p><em>I also own the Nikon 85MM lens to shoot newborns and I have never had this problem with that lens unless I am trying to shoot larger groups. I have 6 families to do this weekend and a group of 15!</em><br>

<em> <br /></em>For group shots you would want to stop down the lens quite a lot, i.e. something like f/8-f/11 would be ideal but lighting conditions may not allow that, so e.g. f/5.6 may work if you position the subjects carefully. To get a small aperture (large f-number) in group shots you often need to use somewhat elaborate lighting. Since you mention getting the SB-600 tomorrow, what were you using to light the shot above? If available light I guess making a compromise between depth of field and noise is required. Print size is of course an important factor to determine what will work acceptably. The 24-70 has some field curvature and thus the focus does not exactly follow a plane, so you may need to empirically determine which positions work well for the group shot in terms of sharpness. If you can buy or rent a studio flash or two, using umbrellas you could more easily distribute even light on a group and there would likely be enough light to stop the lens down so that everyone is sharp, but then it becomes more difficult to include background light if it is "in the woods" as such places typically are not that brightly lit. Normally I would first determine ambient light exposure and let that be ever so slightly dark, then add the flash light. If shooting into bright light in open areas, I might let the ambient be slightly overexposed as otherwise the fill light will look "cut and pasted" into the picture.</p>

<p>I think you really should work out these technical things before photographing a lot of subjects in rapid succession! Anyway, back to the topic of the 24-70 lens, I think your lens is performing as expected, work on your technique and try to get more depth of field if you want more of your subject to be in focus.</p>

<p>Ara, reading your post, my first reaction is: do try to reschedule the shoots you have. You need to know your gear before committing to taking photos for other people. And you need to know what gear you actually need to have for the appointment (asking one day before which lens you need, makes me think you are not well prepared at all, to be brutally honest).<br>

Which shooting mode you use, doesn't really matter. What does matter is that you know how the exposure settings affect your image. For group shots, f/2.8 isn't useful. Your example photo - looks like a slight misfocus and too little depth of field. I can't say whether it would be back- or front focussing, because I cannot see where you actually tried to focus. Maybe the lens focussed spot-on, but you had the focus point where it shouldn't be. Hard to tell.</p>

<p>Which other lens besides the 85mm do you have? If you have something like a 18-105VR or similar - a lens you already know, and worked with - take that for the shoots tomorrow. Don't practise your new gear on customers, but make sure you give them good, competent photos. And when you've done that, return to the new gear and start practising.</p>

<p>Ara, can we see a few more examples?</p>

<p>Actually, it looks to be a focusing issue (look at the pant`s seam in the crotch area), together with a shallow DoF aperture. There is not a very noticeable movement blur. <br /> Given the subject :), I tend to think it`s more a common "user error" (maybe subject`s movement after focusing), than a real lens`problem.</p>

<p>It looks sharp, isn`t it?</p><div></div>

<p>HI Ara<br /> Lenses can have problems yet the first two primary issues are<br /> - Camera Shake/Motion. The camera shake filter does not do well very often unless you really have camera shake. Here is a link with just the auto settings of camera shake: http://jkwphoto.smugmug.com/Other/Photonet/41170890_tSbB5W#!i=3281028621&k=xTxkPV4&lb=1&s=O<br /> - You also have the focus set in front of the eyes. From my calculations, you took the shot at about 10 feet with your camera and at f/4 that wold be a total depth of field for a 8x10 print viewed at 10 inches. That means only 6 inches in front and behind the ideal focus point.<br /> - Other tips, if you are using a tripod turn off vibration reduction<br /> - If hand help did you leave vibration reduction turned on<br /> - Did you buy the lense new or used. Used always has some risk of prior issues coming along for the ride.<br /> </p>

<p>I am completely overwhelmed by all the responses! First let me say, this post was supposed to go into beginners forum. They moved it due to the lens name being in the subject. I am not a seasoned photographer out here booking sessions and trying to make a living from photography (not yet anyway). The family session I have this weekend I have moved to Sunday. They are people that I know not just people paying me to do pictures. I am trying to learn everything and test every aspect of photography so that I will know what area or areas to focus on when and if I do become good enough to take a go at this professionally on a regular basis. I am a stay at home mom and have found a profound love for the art of photography. I am just learning about the technical side of this world. I have found myself completely overwhelmed. I have been told by many people that I have an eye for the subject. I look at the world and think my gosh that would make the perfect picture! I do believe that is a talent that not every photographer has. I have seen many photographers have the perfect set and take that set away and the subject would look awful! I have set out on this journey to learn the technical side of things. My first issue is not knowing enough about equipment (especially when it comes to the lens and knowing which I will need for what). <br>

Many of you have said I need to try to test with a tripod. First let me say, my style of photography will not allow me to do this on a regular basis but I will for sure try this today to test my lens. Thank you for that advice. I have also been asked if the lens is new or used. It was bought brand new last week from B&H. I tested the lens in automatic mode to see if the sharpness was better and it was not. Is this normal? <br>

I do know this lens does not have VR. I read that it would not make that big of a difference. Was I wrong by following that advice? Does it make that big of a difference? I ALWAYS do pictures of people! I NEVER take photos of anything other than people! I will not be doing landscapes, food or anything that is ever completely still. <br>

If I am taking these pictures in the woods and I have to turn my aperture to create a deep depth of field to ensure everyone is in focus, then how do I get enough light into the pictures. I know this question is going to make some of you shake your head but again this was supposed to be in the beginners forum so please don't be to hard on me for asking this. And does turning up the shutter speed create more noise in the picture? I have read many of you think it would be best for me to turn up the shutter speed. I have also learned from your comments that auto ISO is not a good idea. Therefore, I will start reading more in depth about using this manually. Do most of you shoot in manual mode all the way? Does anyone shoot in aperture or shutter priority mode? What is the best way to learn these setting while shooting? <br>

I will be reading these comments over and over until I can fully understand everything each one of you have contributed. Thank you all so much for taking the time to read and respond to this! I felt like I was at a loss and really needed some help with this! </p>

<p>Ara, </p>

<p>Your 85mm. prime should probably be sharper but the different should not be as as great as it seems to be. If you cannot cancel the shoots then I might consider renting another copy of the lens. I agree with Wouter that another zoom, even of lesser quality might work for your purposes until you find out what the problem is.</p>

<p>-O</p>

<p>Most telling is the detail on the child's pants and stitching. There clearly is a very narrow range of this image that is in perfect focus, and the texture of the pants fabric shows it. I think the lens is fine.</p>

<p>It might come as a surprise that at 105mm equivalent and f/4, the depth of field is not forgiving. Try to get up around f/8 for these shots. And be sure to use the lens hood with it.</p>

<p>And if I might say, this lens has an unpleasant way of rendering the transition from in focus to out of focus. When it is sharp, it is sharp, but when it isn't, it's ugly. </p>

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<p>Does anyone shoot in aperture or shutter priority mode?</p>

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<p>I usually shoot in aperture mode; I switch to manual if light won't change, often when using flash or when light conditions are complicated (in which case I prefer spot metering and manual exposure). It's a preference - the only thing that matters in the end is that you understand how your choices for aperture, shutter speed and ISO will affect the final image, and make your decisions based on that. How you physically set these exposure settings on your camera (M, S, P or A mode) is completely secondary.</p>

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<p>If I am taking these pictures in the woods and I have to turn my aperture to create a deep depth of field to ensure everyone is in focus, then how do I get enough light into the pictures.</p>

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<p>It is not a bad question, and it is one of the fundamental things to learn in photography. Start reading <a href="/learn/basic-photo-tips/aperture-shutterspeed-iso/">here</a> for the bare basics. Once you understand these basics, any discussion on the use of VR also becomes a lot easier to understand and follow. As it is, for people (who tend to move), VR is not always as useful as it may seem.</p>

<p>One a far more generic note: if you're very early in your photographic development, I would not exclude immediately "other" styles of photography until you tried them. Not because you have to love them, but for example capturing a good landscape photo is much about recognising good natural light and composition - tricks and knowledge that also helps when shooting portraits. Give it all a try to get an idea on what's what.</p>

<p>the 24-70 is a super lens. i think you just need more practice with it.</p>

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<p>if you are using a tripod turn off vibration reduction</p>

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<p>the 24-70 doesnt have VR. o_O</p>

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<p>Many of you have said I need to try to test with a tripod. First let me say, my style of photography will not allow me to do this on a regular basis but I will for sure try this today to test my lens.</p>

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<p>i generally shoot the 24-70 handheld, but taking test shots with a tripod when you first acquire a lens is a good idea, so you can eliminate camera shake when checking its performance.</p>

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<p>I tested the lens in automatic mode to see if the sharpness was better and it was not. Is this normal?</p>

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<p>personally, i never use auto mode, ever. you do need to control your shooting parameters (shutter speed, aperture, ISO) because the camera is just a tool. what you want to do is shoot the same scene, on a tripod, at a range of apertures beginning with 2.8, on down to f/11 or so. you'll also want to check focus accuracy at different focal lengths, say 24/35/50/70. does the lens accurately focus where you tell it to?</p>

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<p>Was I wrong by following that advice? Does it make that big of a difference?</p>

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<p>VR will not stop blur caused by subject motion, it only allows you to handhold at slower shutter speeds or reduce camera shake with long lenses. at the shutter speeds you'd typically shoot an action-oriented lens like the 24-70, it shouldn't matter. use 1/focal length as a guide and you should be okay for static subjects. for moving subjects 2/FL or more, depending on how fast they are moving.</p>

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<p>If I am taking these pictures in the woods and I have to turn my aperture to create a deep depth of field to ensure everyone is in focus, then how do I get enough light into the pictures.</p>

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<p>raise your ISO or use flash.</p>

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<p>does turning up the shutter speed create more noise in the picture?</p>

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<p>no. raising ISO will introduce more noise into the picture, but a d90 should be ok up to about 1600.</p>

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<p>I have also learned from your comments that auto ISO is not a good idea.</p>

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<p>actually, i use auto-ISO frequently, particularly in manual mode when i am setting shutter speed and aperture. but you dont want to use auto-ISO with flash as it may cause overexposure. these are all technical issues which are common for beginners. once you stop shooting in auto mode, suddenly, there's a lot to learn!</p>

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<p>Do most of you shoot in manual mode all the way? Does anyone shoot in aperture or shutter priority mode? What is the best way to learn these setting while shooting?</p>

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<p>for shooting people, manual mode works well because you need to control both aperture and shutter, generally. for more help, purchase a copy of "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. that's an excellent self-help book which explains the relationship between shutter, aperture, and ISO.</p>

<p>oh, and congrats on your new lens, it's quite an impressive tool when used correctly.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>WOW Eric Arnold, many many thanks to you!!!! That information was right on! I would have never known to change my ISO from auto when engaging the flash!!! I would have been at a complete loss there! I am going to order a copy of that book immediately! I will this evening also go out with a tripod and set up and test my lens! I will report back with my findings. What subject should I use for the test? </p>

<p>Aside from a possibly front-focusing lens (which I agree needs to be checked and eliminated), another issue could be the autofocus mode the D90 is in. By default, that's AF-A; i.e. the camera decides between (single servo) AF-S and (continuous) AF-C on its own - when it detects motion, it is supposedly switching to continuous mode (AF-C) - but may not be doing this fast enough resulting in missed focus.<br>

Personally, I use AF-C for portraits almost exclusively - DOF is thin and the person (especially a kid) is always moving. Fixing it to AF-S may result in missing focus ever so slightly due to that small amount of motion. Also, I recommend using single point AF area mode (a1) and the sensor set to normal (a2) - not wide. </p>

 

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<p>so I'm not sure where the plane of focus is?</p>

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<p>The lens is fine. BreezeBrowser indicates the plane of focus on the child's body instead of the eyes or face. When depth of field is shallow, accurate focussing becomes critical. If one cannot be sure, perhaps it's safer to shoot at f/5.6 or more, along with a fast-enough shutter speed. For group photos with multiple layers of people, it's best to shoot at least from f/8. Please select a beautiful uncluttered background for the group.</p><div></div>

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<p>Duplicate</p>

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<p>The 24-70 always was a flawed gem. I have heard many stories from people I know and on the internet complaining about the flawed mechanics. A lens this special should not be getting stuck at 35 mm due to bad machining of the internal elements.<br>

I'm not surprised to hear bad stories about it. However, goot technique is also required from the photographer in order to get a good shot.</p>

<p>I've owned my 24-70 for at least five years, and it has never given me any trouble. </p>

<p>When I evaluate a new lens, I compare it to the 24-70, which usually wins.</p>

<p>To the OP:</p>

<p>Your camera has a number of autofocus options. You need to understand how all of them impact the focusing of the camera and select the ones that work best for any given situation.</p>

<p>For groups shots, events, and portraits, AF-S is preferable to AF-C. AF-C is more for sports and fast moving subjects.</p>

<p>f/4 is too shallow for group shots. Use f/8 as recommended by others above. Boost your ISO to maintain a fast enough shutter speed.</p>

<p>Make sure that you understand how flash sync and shutter speeds work together. This is critically important and not an easy topic to master. You'll need to invest some practice time before it becomes second nature.</p>

<p>If after all of the above you're still not attaining sharp focus reliably, consider micro fine tuning for the lens. But I would recommend that you have someone help you with the procedure. If you get the settings wrong, your results will be worse than if you had done nothing.</p>

<p>Dieter Schaefer that is wonderful insight. I was set to AF-A so I changed it to AF-C. I had been debating this change and was not sure which would work best but that makes perfect sense! My sensor is set to normal however should I change it to wide when doing a large family or should it be left at normal? And I have read a lot about AF mode (a1). Mine is set to auto. So you suggest changing this as well? Would this work best for groups, couples and children? Thank you so much for your input!</p>