New Nikon 24-70MM lens issues

[shutterstruckstudio]

<p>Dan South thank you so much for your input. I will make sure and adjust my ISO for the session. Would you recommend starting around 400? And yes I got my flash today and I am scared to even open the box! </p>

[shutterstruckstudio]

<p>So I have made some adjustments and was able to get this photo. Please let me know if this is better. The focal length is 70mm this is the only length I can get a good sharp image! I tried using a tripod and was still getting the same results at anything less than 50-70MM. This image was taken in aperture priority 1/60 sec, F/8 (as suggested) and ISO 200. Why can I not get a sharp image at anything less then 50MM?</p><div></div>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>Ara, can you post an image with problems? Those will help us better understand what is happening than those where things did work out well.<br>

Nice dog :-)</p>

[elliot1]

<p>Frankly, you should not be having the kind of problems you are describing. It is not all that much different than any other lens. </p>

[brent_mattox]

<p>For the record, I did have an autofocus problem with my 24-70. In autofocus mode, it began "hunting" for focus - all subjects, all shooting conditions, all of the time - on two different camera bodies. My results were much worse than what the OP is experiencing, so it was obvious there was a problem. I finally sent it back to Nikon, but they did not make any meaningful notation on the repair ticket what the problem was - something like "Factory Adjustments". Haven't had any problems since.</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>If the dog's @f8, then I gotta say that looks to be front focussing. I'd expect a lot more dog to be sharp, not just a shiny nose! Even his (?) left eye is out.</p>

<p>If it's focussed at ~1.5m, @70mm @f8 you get about 14cm total, 7cm in-front and 7cm behind....this looks like pretty much all in-front. Where was the focus 'spot' aimed at? If it was on his eyes, I'd expect shiny nose all the way to ears to be sharp...but not much body.</p>

<p>For the maths, I like this app.. http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html</p>

[shutterstruckstudio]

<p>Mike Halliwell...yes the focus was aimed on his eyes. The reason I posted the best picture I got while testing was because I wanted input like you just gave me. If the settings were set right, then why I am I not getting that beautiful tack sharp image that everyone raves about with this $1900 lens. I do admit that I am new to photography but I do know enough to produce a very sharp picture with my 85MM lens. And as someone stated, it should not be that much different with this lens correct? Thank you for the website plug! I did visit that site yesterday and studied by plugging my numbers before testing the lens. ;)</p>

<p>The suggestion from everyone about using f/8 made sense and I know is more forgiving than the f/2.8 but YES this image was shot using f/8 and I just felt more of the face should have been in focus.</p>

<p>I am on top of everyone's replies and appreciate the effort everyone has taken to help me on this issue! I will be consistantly checking this thread all day as tomorrow is the day of the shoot. Someone mentioned for me to try another lens but the only lens I have besides the stock lens (which is JUNK IMO) is the 85mm lens. Since I am going to do the session outside, I suppose I could use this lens but normally use it for no more than a small family. After spending this much money the lens, I am sick over this issue. I debated for a long time on getting the 24-70mm or the 70-200mm. I did talk to B&H and after sending them an image sample they agreed to grant me a refund but now I don't know if I should try another copy of this lens or get another lens altogether. They did tell me there have been issues with the lens focus. </p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>In order to determine whether it's the lens or the AF in the camera, I suggest to turn AF off and focus manually - preferably onto something that doesn't move. If the manually focused images are sharper (i.e. with focus where its supposed to be) than the ones taken with AF, then the lens is "off the hook" and the AF calibration with the D90 is off. IIRC, the D90 doesn't have the option to fine tune AF, so a trip of the camera and lens to Nikon would be in order.</p>

[john_wheeler6]

<blockquote>

<p>......YES this image was shot using f/8 and I just felt more of the face should have been in focus.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Just as an FYI ara, the metadata embedded in your image indicates that<br>

1/200 Shutter Speed<br>

f/4.0 Aperture<br>

200 ISO</p>

<p>So being at f/4.0 instead of your stated f/8 might explain part of the issue.</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>Dog shot is f8 at 1/60 ISO 200</p>

[shutterstruckstudio]

<p>Thank you Mike Halliwell! Yes the dog was at f/8 and the child at f/4. I fully understand that the child should have been shot at around f/8 so I changed it as instructed when I did the dog to test. The information you were reading John Wheeler was for the wrong picture. </p>

[john_wheeler6]

<p>Thanks for the correction</p>

[jose_angel]

<blockquote>

<p><em>Someone mentioned for me to try another lens but the only lens I have besides the stock lens (which is JUNK IMO) is the 85mm lens</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Ara, I don`t know which one is your "stock" lens, but I have used my sister`s D90 with her kit lens (18-105DX), and found it to be a decent performer. Not the same construction as the 24-70, but still a very good performer.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>I tried using a tripod and was still getting the same results at anything less than 50-70MM. This image was taken in aperture priority 1/60 sec, F/8 (as suggested) and ISO 200. Why can I not get a sharp image at anything less then 50MM?</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Are you actually comparing the same image taken at 24 and 70mm? If you just shoot at 24 or 70 from the same distance, the sharpness feel will be always higher at 70mm... simply because the subject appear larger in the frame. If the face at 24mm is say, 500pixels wide on the final image, at 70mm it will be near 1500 pixels, so the ammount of detail will be higher. The longer the focal lenght the larger magnification, so the higher sharpness perception.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>...yes the focus was aimed on his eyes...</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>If so, something is not in good shape. If you haven`t experienced this issue with your other lenses, it`s very likely that the failure is on the lens, not in the camera.<br /> But I still wonder if you cannot put the camera on a tripod or so and shoot a static subject, like a newspaper at 45º with a thick black line drawn over it to focus. This will definitely tell you if the setup have a focus problem.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>now I don't know if I should try another copy of this lens or get another lens altogether. They did tell me there have been issues with the lens focus.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>And probably with every lens from every manufacturer... I don`t know. Someone above said about the bad manufacture of the lens, and I use to read about people that never use the hood (this lens ask for continous use of the hood for protection), or from people who like to leave the lens+camera mounted face down into the bag for transport (all the weight, bumps and vibes over the (un)famous helicoid), or from people who use to buy and return lenses without remorse (this units will be there for the next buyer... ), or from people who consider lenses like guns, bomb proof, etc. I`d like to know about the lens`life with these owners.<br /> I think many people here can tell you the same; this is a very good lens, amongst the best from Nikon, ever. It`d be very unlucky if all samples have focusing issues.</p>

[shutterstruckstudio]

<p>Would anyone be willing to post an image of a person or more than one person taken with the Nikon 24-70MM zoomed into 100%...especially helpful a group of people taken at anything below 50mm? </p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>When using wide angle to photograph subjects such as people, it can be that the focus point extends beyond the subject's face, and as a result sees also other stuff behind it, and this can lead to misfocus. I think it would be good if you could position the camera at a 45 degree angle next to a wall with some poster or text on the wall to focus on (brick wall would be perfect as well), and then capture shots made at 24mm, f/2.8, and 70mm, f/2.8. We can then diagnose the problem better. I recommend shooting from the same camera position, select something like 2-3 meter (6-9 feet) focus distance to the wall.</p>

<p>I have many images shot with the 24-70 but they were shot with FX cameras. Here is one example at 34mm, f/5.6, ISO 200, 1/500s, using the D800. I will post a crop as well. </p><div></div>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>Here is the 100% crop. I had dialed in -12 in the D800 fine tune for this lens. I have another 24-70 which has currently -6 (but the camera has been serviced in between).</p><div></div>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>Here is an image shot at f/2.8, 24mm on an 24MP FX camera.</p><div></div>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>And the 100% crop. At this point in time (2012) I had not fine tuned my D3X for this lens as with the older camera it didn't seem necessary to do so with most lenses (the D800 has been a more difficult case in that respect). Note that the image quality at f/2.8 is not going to be as good as it is at f/4 or f/5.6; as with most lenses they improve when stopped down a bit. Also both pictures are of dancers in motion and this may have affected the sharpness a bit.</p><div></div>

[eric_arnold]

<blockquote>

<p>Personally, <strong>I use AF-C for portraits almost exclusively</strong> - DOF is thin and the person (especially a kid) is always moving. Fixing it to AF-S may result in missing focus ever so slightly due to that small amount of motion.</p>

<p><strong>For groups shots, events, and portraits, AF-S is preferable to AF-C</strong>. AF-C is more for sports and fast moving subjects.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>ack, more contradictory advice. i tend to agree with Dan here. I generally use AF-S for single shots and AF-C for continuous shooting, i.e. a burst. in AF-C, your focal point changes with subject motion, but it doesn't give you a focus confirmation "beep", just a green dot in the viewfinder. So the focus doesn't lock quite as tightly. what this means is, if you use focus and recompose technique in AF-C, you could miss focus, as the focal plane may have shifted from what you thought it was. Unless you are shooting close-up with a fast lens and shallow depth of field, any motion of a portrait subject should be fairly slight, and easily correctable by using a) a fast enough shutter to freeze subject motion and b) enough DoF to give you latitude for error -- i.e. 5.6-f/8. also, 1/60 is generally the minimum shutter for people shots, it may not be fast enough for squirmy rugrats (except if using flash, which will freeze motion even at lower shutter speeds). this is where auto-ISO can help in manual mode--set shutter and aperture first, then let the camera dial in light sensitivity. of course, you will also have to meter correctly for the scene you are exposing for.</p>

[shutterstruckstudio]

<p>Ilkka NICE work and extremely helpful!!!! Thank you so much! And Eric thank you so much for the input on AF-S and AF-C. I did my session today and was blown away by how much I love my SB-600! Yes there is a huge learning curve with the flash but I thought it was a good time to try it out with this big group being family. I must say I was impressed with the outcome! I can only imagine how much I will love it when I know how to use it better. Given my lighting in the woods, the fact that it started raining during the session and almost stormed I would NOT have made it through the session without it! The lighting conditions were terrible and it helped so much along with all the feedback I have gained through everyone's posts. I will come back and post an image or two once I get them downloaded if anyone is still following this post. I would love more feedback from a few pictures I did today from the group session. Thank you all so much! </p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>what this means is, if you use focus and recompose technique in AF-C, you could miss focus, as the focal plane may have shifted from what you thought it was.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sorry, but I don't understand - this only makes sense to me if you are talking about AF-S mode as I am not aware how to do a focus and recompose when in AF-C mode. </p>

<p>And I had bad experience with AF-S shooting portrait as well with using the focus and recompose method (also AF-S). Any subject (or photographer) movement and focus is off for the former; the latter adds the additional problem that the simple act of recomposing can already throw of focus. I only use AF-S on static subject, never on anything that moves. In fact, I don't switch between AF-S and AF-C any more - I have decoupled focusing from the shutter release button and use the AF-ON button exclusively - it gives me the best of both worlds without ever having to change focus mode.</p>

[eric_arnold]

<blockquote>

<p>this only makes sense to me if you are talking about AF-S mode as I am not aware how to do a focus and recompose when in AF-C mode.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>my point is that focus and recompose works best in AF-S.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Any subject (or photographer) movement and focus is off for the former; the latter adds the additional problem that the simple act of recomposing can already throw of focus.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>after four years with the D3s, i'm pretty familiar with both modes as well as the AF-On button. don't get me wrong, i use AF-C frequently. out of more than 500 shots, most taken with the 24-70, in AF-C mode, that i took this past Saturday, i had only three where focus was missed. that's more than 99% accuracy. but i wouldnt recommend using AF-C for posed group shots or portraits. the focus doesnt lock completely in AF-C because the servos are active. and for single shots, even with some subject movement, i generally will use AF-S. it's easier for me to hear the focus confirmation beep letting me know focus has locked on, then to watch for a green dot which appears and disappears every time the subject moves. i get a lot of keepers doing events using AF-S. i only use AF-C on things which move fast, or frequently. one of the best things about the 24-70 is that it does lock focus so fast, so AF-S mode is eminently usable, even with moving targets as long at they stay on the same focal plane, i.e. horizontal movement. with good panning technique you can easily lock focus with the first shot in a sequence and follow the sequence all the way through the action. if the movement is less predictable, then AF-C is better.</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>Same experience here as Dieter. AF-C and an AF-ON button is all what I need, for everything.</p>

[eric_arnold]

<blockquote>

<p>Same experience here as Dieter. AF-C and an AF-ON button is all what I need, for everything.<br /> <em>I am using a D90 body</em> and plan on buying a full frame at the end of the year</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sorry, but that isn't great advice for someone currently using a d90, Dieter and Jose. to put myself in the OP's shoes, i just pulled out my d90 and set it to AF-C (i usually set it to AF-S). here's what i discovered: if you point it at a static subject, focus and then move the camera even slightly, the selected focus point jumps around wildly. the D90 only has one cross-type sensor, in the center, so it's much more possible to introduce focus error when using AF-C with that camera, as opposed to something with more advanced AF. i could also point out that the d90 has a combined AE-L/AF-L button which is smaller and isn't as optimally-placed as on prosumer/pro bodies like the d300 and D3s. in order to engage it, you have to move your thumb to an ergonomically-awkward position. Because of this, i never use that button with the d90, even when shooting fast action at events. (i do generally use the AF-On button with the D3s.) Note that the d600/d610 also share the same hybrid AE/AF button, in the same position as the d90, although the button extends out from the body more -- the d90's button is recessed, making it far less tactile.</p>

<p>Here's something i found about the d90's AF, from <a href="http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D90/D90AUTOFOCUS.HTM">Imaging Resource</a>:</p>

<p>"There's an important difference between Single and Continuous Servo modes: In Single Servo mode, the shutter won't release unless the lens is focused, or the lens itself is set to manual focus. (Focus Priority) In Continuous Servo mode however, the camera will fire regardless of the state of focus. (Release Priority) <em><strong>If you want to be sure that the camera is focused when you snap the picture, use Single Servo mode</strong></em>. <strong><em>Use Continuous Servo for moving subjects, and/or times when the instant of shutter release is more important to you than sharp focus.</em></strong>"</p>

<p>That's pretty helpful IMO in understanding the difference between AF-S and AF-C on a D90. Since the OP is mainly concerned about sharpness in photos, it should be clear that using AF-S is the best way to ensure focus accuracy with static, i.e., sedentary, subjects. the focus confirmation beep helps too, as an aural aid when shooting.</p>

<p>I mention this because it's important to practice good shooting habits, especially when you are still making your way up the photographic learning curve. For more advanced shooters, and/or those using more advanced bodies, AF-C and AF-On <em>might</em> produce better results in some situations. But as i mentioned before, focus doesnt actually "lock" in AF-C because the servos are active. i think there's sometimes a tendency in this forum to project "this is what i do, so therefore everyone should do it" as opposed to tailoring one's response to the OP's skill level (and equipment level). i mean, i've seen recommendations for $3000+ exotic lenses for people using entry-level cameras who just want a decent telephoto lens for walkaround use.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>the selected focus point jumps around wildly</p>

</blockquote>

<p>even when you select single point AF? What you describe should only happen with dynamic area, auto area or 3D-tracking.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>In Single Servo mode, the shutter won't release unless the lens is focused, or the lens itself is set to manual focus. (Focus Priority) In Continuous Servo mode however, the camera will fire regardless of the state of focus. (Release Priority)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Forgot that the D90 is lacking the option to set focus priority also for AF-C (which makes the default AF-A mode even more dubious as one doesn't have control whether or not it picks AF-S or AF-C at any given moment in time). </p>

<p>Be all that as it may - I would still use single point AF-C mode over AF-S for anything that moves - and that includes portraits of kids when shot with a fast lens wide open. The fact that focus is never actually "locked" IMO is an advantage in this case.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>i think there's sometimes a tendency in this forum to project "this is what i do, so therefore everyone should do it" as opposed to tailoring one's response to the OP's skill level (and equipment level).<br /><br /></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Point taken - I'll shut up now. </p>