Nikon Introduces Df Retro DSLR

<p>The fact of the matter is that by its nature, the Df is a controversial camera. If all the old controls were so desirable, Nikon wouldn't have replaced them back in 1996 on the F5 and continued to do so on almost every SLR they introduced in the last 17 years, with a few exceptions such as the retro FM3A, FM10, etc. The same is also true for Canon during that period.</p>

<p>If I praise a Nikon product, someone would accuse me for advertising for them. When I point out the shortcomings, those who have bought into it are going to be unhappy and defensive. If you feel that spending $2750 (or whatever you local price is) is money well spent for you, then be happy with the way the Df is. If someone like me who points out facts such as the Df only has a 2nd-tier AF module in the Multi-CAM 4800 ... etc. and it bothers you, I definitely agree that you should not even read this thread. For example, I have the 80-400mm AF-S VR, but I am also the first one to admit, over and over, that at $2700, it is not very good value for the money.</p>

<p>What is wrong with providing more options? Options cost money and sometimes such options displace other useful features. If you compare feature by feature, it is quite clear that the D610, now at below $2000, has slightly more than the Df. All of that has already been discussed over and over in the last 800+ posts.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>If all the old controls were so desirable, Nikon wouldn't have replaced them back in 1996 on the F5 and continued to do so on almost every SLR they introduced in the last 17 years</p>

</blockquote>

<p>There are good reasons why the Nikon and Canon control layouts have been a mess for the last 17-odd years. I think it must partly be to do with economics - the fact that they have been concentrating on sensor design and the electronics and needed a fairly modular approach to allow compatibility from body to body - put as much of the controls as possible into internal electronics which can be moved from one body to the next - controlling through a standardised command dial + buttons where necessary must make this a lot easier. Digital cameras are essentially disposable - they will be used for a few years then discarded for a camera with a newer sensor etc., therefore they need to be as modular and economic as possible.</p>

<p>Partly it must be to do with cost - manufacturing all these knobs, weather sealing the big holes created for them etc. must cost a lot of money. Again, see above re disposability of digital cameras.</p>

<p>And it must also be to do with their for a long time pinning their philosophy to the trio of the big slow heavy zoom lenses.</p>

<p>There've been signs of a turn around in this philosophy - quite a lot of new prime lenses being brought out. And it's only natural that part of that should be addressing the awful control layouts of the D1x derivatives.</p>

<p>It's natural to look at the highly developed control systems that have gone before partly because they work well, and partly because they're industry standard, so that switching from one camera to the next can be done seamlessly. I can pick up pretty much any camera and use it intuitively, with barely any learning what's where - with the sole exception of Canon. I tried a 5D2 a while ago, and couldn't work out the controls at all. Finally I had to ask the owner to brief me on it, which he did. It was then that I realised that Canon were worse than Nikon in this regard. I don't blame Nikon at all - they've produced a range of superb digital cameras, and the interface, while not great, has at least been usable. But it's time to move on, and Nikon have clearly realised this.</p>

<p>Some people won't 'get it'. Maybe even a majority of people. And some people will have a real need for a camera optimised for long heavy zooms. So the reactions of some people in this thread are not surprising at all. But that's fine because they'll still have the D800's, D3's, D4's etc. to choose from.<br>

<br>

For the majority of people, I think a layout like the DF's is likely to be by far the most sensible choice. Whether or not people realise that is another question. So long as it wins enough followers that Nikon carry on developing bodies in a sensible direction, that's fine.</p>

<p>Shun: Good point about the X100's shutter and aperture control (and the workaround on the X-Pro1). I'd not really taken that on board before. Something I should bear in mind before thinking about getting one, however tempting a leaf shutter is.<br />

<br />

Mike: Um, no.<br />

<br />

Honestly, all the discussion is going to be largely because this is a camera that is different. People are allowed to want different things, so I'm not necessarily subscribing to Shun's "newer is better" argument, though I'm not sure that some of those wanting the Df's controls wouldn't be better acclimatizing to a current high-end camera. Equally, those who <i>have</i> acclimatized will need convincing that the Df's controls are good, since we've got used to the reason for switching away from this kind of interface and the problems with it still exist.<br />

<br />

When a popular camera like the D700 was launched, people knew what they were getting. There were plenty of reviews of the D300, and we knew what the D3 could do. I checked in the manual that the multi-segment AF confirmation LED was there (it is on the D700 and D3, not on the D300) and was otherwise pretty much happy to buy. With the D800, we all wanted reviews of the sensor, but we knew we were getting a slightly slower D700 with some tweaks. There wasn't this much to talk about.<br />

<br />

With the Df, there's no reference. Sure, we know what the D600's shutter can do and what the D4's sensor can do, so the performance is no big surprise, but there's no reference for the handling. Film cameras don't have the same level of control, so form a poor reference - especially since most recent film cameras had already moved to handling similar to DSLRs'. Add to that the price and current unavailability of the camera and it's not surprising that there's been a lot to talk about. Does the handling work? Are you sure? Because everything we learnt about the F4 to F5 switch suggests that it shouldn't work. Clearly its interface is a hybrid; does <i>that</i> work? A few gaps in the manual aren't helping. Those who've got one and can report, thank you for your patience, but I can completely understand how the rest of us can have filled so many posts. When I do go and try out a Df, I need to know what to check for, and to see whether the handling bothers me. In the (in my case probably remote) off-chance I get one, it's a lot of money to pay only to find a handling niggle after I get it home. There are some surprises in there.<br />

<br />

There's also a bit of "what were they thinking", as usually happens when Nikon launches something. Understanding the product line is useful as a way of deciding which camera you might want and whether you might expect an alternative to appear in the future - although Nikon seems to go out of their way to defy expectations sometimes. (Google too - I'm still smarting from Kitkat.) Knowing what Nikon were expecting the camera to achieve helps to work out what it'll be good for; I'll put up with any inconvenient design decision if I feel there was a purpose to it, it's only unjustifiably inconvenience that I can't stomach. Hopefully, if we can guess a good answer to "why didn't Nikon make <i>insert camera features that I'd want here</i>", it's less painful for those who wait. It helps to believe that Nikon have their own logic, even if they're denying everyone else's.<br />

<br />

Incidentally, they <i>are</i> finally turning up in the UK - WEx has silver ones in, and Park are expecting them soon. Hopefully I'll get a chance to play before long. In the meantime, thank you to all who tolerated my questions.<br />

<br />

Dan: I don't believe we've proven Godwin's law yet...</p>

<p>Regardless of this long, and truly informative, and sometimes passionate thread, its still early to determine the success of the Df, and since I don't have a crystal ball I won't go there accept that I think the Df concept has a lot to offer to some, and not so for others. The only issue I see the Dfs lack of success is the price, it could be the ball and chain, so there's no defense for that, and no one so far has even attempted to go to the defense of the Dfs price tag.</p>

<p>As for 3rd stop aperture control with AIS lenses, I do it frequently, its there, use it. Just turn past the click stop to a 1/2, or a 3rd voila. Although I'll admit 1/2 stop turns are more likable because of the nature of the way the readout defines a 1/3 stop. Meaning there's response latitude that costs time if fiddling with 3rds, where a 1/2 will do, so its kind of an issue when not living with it, but a non-issue when one has lived with it.</p>

<p>Nikon was smart to go this route with the Df. However many AI, or AIS lenses that are stuffed away in closets out there, have a way to be re-awakened, and thats a good thing, right?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I'm not sure that some of those wanting the Df's controls wouldn't be better acclimatizing to a current high-end camera. Equally, those who <em>have</em> acclimatized will need convincing that the Df's controls are good,</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I've spent nine years and well on my way to a million frames acclimatising, I think I'm just about acclimatised by now. Now it's time for something better.</p>

 

<p>Simon: I did say <i>some</i>. :-) I really don't have the issues that you do with your DSLR, though I acknowledge that you are having them. In part, this is because I spend most of my time in manual, or at least don't toggle between manual and aperture priority enough to worry about dial direction, and because my left hand is usually genuinely busy trying to support, zoom or focus a lens. I do have plenty of issues of my own, but not these ones! While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I have trouble believing that the Df is actually an answer to most ergonomic issues, though something else might be. I really doubt Nikon have suddenly seen the light and decided to move everything to the Df interface. The F5 and F6 were not made to save costs over the F4 (they had to be the best Nikon could make to compete with Canon; they wouldn't have risked crippling the interface knowingly), and the F6 really isn't a sports camera. Nikon specifically describes the Df as being slower to use than existing cameras - something that is not going to appeal to most. I completely support that some might want to set up their camera, raise it to the eye and shoot, but I'd really rather have the "don't have to take my hand off the shutter release" approach, however overloaded. I'm happy that the Df exists, even if I struggle to understand it, but if all cameras worked that way then I'd be crying out for the D800's interface (ish). At least, I think - until I can try a Df and be converted, obviously.<br />

<br />

Don: Not really - my AI-S lens has been very much used on my D700 and D800, not stuck in a closet. I do support Nikon's choice of enabling (sort of - I'd have been more impressed with a bunny ear feeler) <i>pre-</i>AI lenses, though the lack of stop-down metering is annoying (especially until I understand the reason!) but I don't know how many of them there still are. Nice to have an option that doesn't involve grinding bits of metal off the lens, though.</p>

<p>Actually, a quick question inspired by another thread... Don: You mention doing 1/3 stop with AI lenses. Using non-AI lenses, with the Df, you need to set the aperture to match with the front dial. (At least, if you want the metering to work - I can't imagine something absolutely stops the camera from taking an exposure if you don't do this.) The f7 option for the command dials says that the aperture read-out only works in whole stop increments when you're using the aperture ring. Would I be right to assume that this is a function of the granularity of the aperture follower ring, not the behaviour in "lens controls aperture" mode? More specifically, with a non-AI lens, can I assume you have 1/3 stop adjustments in the front dial for telling the camera about aperture - and the camera <i>does</i> tell you exactly what you've set - or should I be paranoid about being constrained to whole stops? (I don't know whether there are pre-AI lenses with clicks on the half-stop; that could be an annoying combination, but I guess 1/6 of a stop between friends isn't the end of the world.)</p>

<p>Cheers Andrew!</p>

<p>Most of Bjorn's points about 'major' comments before most of us have ever even seen one let alone got our mitts on it, are well founded! However, as usual, the Manual was written by those that don't need to know such detail.</p>

<p>Nearly ALL such queries <em><strong>could</strong></em> be answered by the questioner within 5 minutes of handle-time.</p>

<p>I think a lot of the issue is between people who earn their bread day in day out with cameras, and get to know the strengths and weaknesses of different cameras inside out, and people who use them from time to time - the latter can't be expected to have thought through the issues so much, it's not their profession. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a fact.</p>

<p>This forum is really an amateur forum (few professionals would bother to wade through all the cokey opinions being expressed in here), and lots of them will be starry-eyed with the buttons and functions on the latest DSLR. So the reaction in this thread on a (not wanting to be rude, just a fact) what is essentially an amateur gear-head forum is not a surprise.</p>

<p>Some may be even attracted to the DF for the same reason. I think it's appeal lies in three directions - with serious professionals who really know what they want, secondly with amateurs who don't really know what they want, but think it looks cool. And thirdly seriously discerning amateurs who may not care whether it looks cool, but just want a camera with sensible controls.</p>

<p>The Fuji x100 really appealed to the same groups and has been very successful, and is heavily used by professionals and amateurs alike. Not because of its looks at all. Because of its superb functionality (superb in a relative sense - there's huge room for improvement, but it's miles ahead of the competition).</p>

<p>That's not to say that the serious professionals will only want the DF - far from it. Probably the majority will go on using D1x style layouts, and for good reasons (heavy lenses, price, compatibility with other bodies.. But most of them won't need the benefits of that style of layout explaining to them, it will be obvious. And a lot of them will buy it.</p>

<p>Whether the DF actually solves the <em>ergonomics</em> problems, we don't know yet - I certainly don't. But I do know that it's great that Nikon are thinking about it and trying to move in the direction of sorting it out.</p>

<p>This thread needs more BLING!</p>

<p><img src="http://www.dlaab.com/photo/Df_bling.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<blockquote>Most of Bjorn's points about 'major' comments before most of us have ever even seen one let alone got our mitts on it, are well founded! However, as usual, the Manual was written by those that don't need to know such detail.</blockquote>

 

<p>...or those that did need to, but didn't know, or those that didn't bother to document it. My habit of reading manuals before purchase is based on wanting to know details that reviewers don't bother to check (which are often <i>a lot</i>). If the manual doesn't contain the information either, I'm really in trouble. I'm determined to understand as much as I can about the Nikon system (this thread has already helped significantly), but missing a number of things that could have been documented in the manual is annoying. I've spent enough money with Nikon already - I don't really want to have to buy every bit of Nikon kit just to learn about it.<br />

<br />

Sadly my local Jessops is closed (and I have no local independent camera store, as far as I know), so I'm going to be waiting for the chance to visit somewhere more distant, or crossing my fingers that my local PC World happens to get a Df in its camera selection. I'm not holding my breath.</p>

<p>Simon: Well, I'll gladly admit to being an amateur. But not thinking through the issues? I've enough user interaction training that I don't think that's true. I have a plentiful list of things that I would like to see improve the handling of a Nikon DSLR (most of which I sent to Nikon very shortly after receiving my D700). I'm certainly not going to go "ooh" at the latest features; I'm far more likely either to go "oh no, they've made <i>this</i> not work" or to go "oh, they fixed that at last". I know and use most of the buttons and functions on my DSLR (except the image retouching, which is there in plenty on the Df), but if I needed to use all but a few easily-reached buttons during shooting it would rapidly drive me nuts. There are people who really do buy by the length of the feature list, and those who have never used a film camera with manual dials. Equally, there are those who never "got" the F5 control system and have always pined for the F4, even if the newer systems might have been faster and more convenient to use. I'm not suggesting you're in that category, but I suspect some are. My concern is that I believe I see serious ergonomic issues trying to use the dial interface on the Df (and to a lesser extent the rest of the camera), and I'm trying to learn what I'm misunderstanding - which probably means that I need to learn to use, or imagine using, the camera differently.<br />

<br />

I appreciate that you have issues with the handling of current bodies, but I see the Df as introducing its own selection of issues, most of which would be worse for me than any problem that's solved - though, again, I really need to try it. I can believe that many of us (while I think we've been pretty balanced) might just not understand the Df interface, but I really don't think it's because we're amateurs and don't worry our pretty heads about how we use a camera. I'm more inclined to believe that we're just different, and that Nikon has produced a camera which might be good for some people, even if not the majority. I'm sure Nikon are constantly looking at their user interface (though with some doubts about <i>how</i> they're looking at it, in some cases; can my D900 come with a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthology_of_Interest_I">fing-longer</a> for the ISO button?) but I would really be astonished if the Df's interface was adopted for any but the minority. But I'm prepared to be converted.<br />

<br />

Dan: Congratulations on your new baby! Accessorised with a third-party shutter button cover, I see. Black seems to be harder to come by, too. I'm interested to see (and hadn't registered before) that the Df's strap doesn't have the bright yellow "mug me" markings that Nikon normally provides. ("D800 FX" - this camera is really expensive, please nick it.) Although a Df is it's own special shade of "weird and probably worth money". :-)</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I really don't think it's because we're amateurs and don't worry our pretty heads about how we use a camera</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and some amateurs know an awful lot (and quite often professionals can be astonishingly ignorant). At the same time, they are relatively few, and it would be odd if people who use a camera occasionally at a weekend knew as much about it as people who are professionals using the tool day in day out. The former can learn a lot from the latter (and often the latter can learn something from the former, but that's less common).</p>

<p>I worked as a long time as a lawyer, and believe me, if you read the opinions being spouted on legal issues on amateur forums, it makes your eyes water. Photography is not so different, except that everyone likes to think they can do it, whether or not they can. I'm not getting at you (I have no idea about the depth of your knowledge), I'm just pointing out that there is a huge range of experience, and one of the issues as a professional is always meeting people who think they know a lot about something where they don't know so much.</p>

<p>I was recently being lectured by an experienced amateur photographer who was trying to convince me that bounce flash took time to bounce and therefore you need to set a longer shutter speed to allow time for the flash to hit the ceiling and reach the subject...</p>

<p>I smiled and nodded and moved on. That kind of thing gets tiring.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I would really be astonished if the Df's interface was adopted for any but the minority</p>

</blockquote>

<p>And I would be astonished if it wasn't. Neither of us have used the camera.</p>

<p>Andrew,<br /> It is my understanding, and I could be wrong that when using AI, or AIS lenses on the Df, or the D600 for that matter, programing in the maximum aperture is a way of the meter to, 'Tag,' or set the content for where the meter can go through the gamut of EVs, by way of apertures for that lens.. The lever activator in the mirror box if used in <strong>shutter priority</strong> will, 'Adjust its throw,' to suit the apertures EVs providing the aperture ring was set to minimum aperture, where in <strong>aperture priority</strong> the camera adjusts the shutter speed, along with wherever you set the aperture ring. In the case of the Df where there's the option of 3rd stop shutter, and via the shutter dial in full stops, so called retro, if using the<strong> manual mode</strong> shutter, and aperture, you can adjust 3rd stop increments with the AIS aperture collar virtually providing yet another option to get 3rd stop metering. 3rd stop metering for shutter speed option, 3rd stop aperture metering bypassing the click stops on the aperture ring on a AI, or AIS lens. Hope that came out right.</p>

<p>Andrew, I hope I haven't offended you. My comments really are not aimed at you at all (you have been one of the sanest voices on this thread).</p>

<p>I'm just trying to introduce some sense of perspective.</p>

<p>The 1/3 stop issue is a purely theoretical one, really nothing to do with real world photography. Most cameras have worked like this for a long time. In the real world, the way the DF will almost certainly work (because it's the way hundreds of other cameras work) is like this:</p>

<p>The 1/3 shutter speed question comes up in Aperture or Manual modes. In Aperture mode, you set the aperture - you can set it in between full stops, wherever you like. The camera will set the shutter speed, in a suitably small increment, usually 1/3 stops.</p>

<p>In manual mode: you may if you like start by setting the aperture. You then set the most appropriate whole stop shutter speed. If the recommended shutter speed is in between two stops, you give a tweak to the aperture to compensate and get the perfect exposure. If you're already at maximum aperture, then you may have to tweak down very slightly, say from f1.4 to f1.6. This makes little real-world difference to your depth of field. Or you can overexpose by a third of a stop. Again, no real world difference.</p>

<p>It sounds like the DF may have the ability to fine tune the shutter speed instead of the aperture. If so, then that's dandy. Puts it one up on most other cameras. But it's really a theoretical difference - in practise, it really doesn't matter.</p>

<p>While it's interesting to get to the bottom of the finest detail of how the camera's interface works in a technical discussion, that's fine - but to start to judge a camera on something irrelevant like this is just bizarre and has nothing to do with actual photography and the camera's use in the real world.</p>

 

<p>Real world or not, the Df offers the flexibility of 3rd stop increments in both shutter speed, and the possibility of aperture. There was earlier discussion eluding to the contrary, un-conclusive, but providing doubt.</p>

<p>Df, 50/1.8G, ISO 12,800, f4.0, 1/20s, handheld:<br>

<img src="http://www.dlaab.com/photo/yard_light.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>Thanks for the bling! The Df looks amazing!</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>This forum is really an amateur forum (few professionals would bother to wade through all the cokey opinions being expressed in here)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Titles and labels mean nothing. There are amateur photographers with well-developed skills and amazing portfolios. There are busy, working professional photographers whose work isn't very impressive - lots of them. </p>

<p>"<em>Amateur</em> forum?" Can you give an example of a <em>professional</em> forum? Enthusiasts outnumber professionals, so I doubt that there are many exclusively professional websites in the world.</p>

<p>Are you suggesting that no one here knows what they're talking about or how to evaluate equipment? That's pure rubbish and it serves no purpose in the discussion. An amateur is literally someone who does something because they love it, not necessarily because the aren't skilled enough to be a professional. The amateur label does not demean their level of knowledge, the quality of their work, or their ability to evaluate the utility of a new camera.</p>

<p>The only clear difference between the pro and the amateur is that the amateur doesn't have to justify a piece of equipment by its ability to contribute to the bottom line of a business. If they like as piece of gear and they can afford it, they can buy it. The professional doesn't have that luxury. Equipment must provide a return on investment. Durability, utility, practicality, and value all need to be considered carefully.</p>

Simon: No offence taken (and I'm glad I've fooled you into believing my sanity). Everywhere on the internet,

well-meaning people spread misinformation. I've been responsible for my share of it. I do believe that this

forum is unusually populated by those who will correct those who are mistaken, however. It's amazing

how people can get by with some fundamental misconceptions, and how people use something without

thinking about it. I completely agree that someone who uses their camera every day (and I don't, sadly) will

be more exposed to its foibles, but I also think those who spend their time doing the hard job of logistically

making money out of photography may be no more likely to know every detail of it than those who

research out of interest. I remember an interview in which one of the members of Metallica was laughing

at Brian May (of Queen) for not knowing what a reverb pedal of some sort did - but the members of Queen

did perfectly well for themselves without ever needing to know this.

 

I don't claim to be a great photographer, and try to stay away from offering creative advice (though I'm

happy to read and learn from it), but I do like to understand the mechanics and ergonomics of how

cameras work. Just the facts, ma'am. That's why I'm still trying to make sense of the Df - I think it has

something to teach me, but I'm also not dismissive of the rest of the line-up.

 

Regarding the adoption of the Df's interface, that has less to do with how much I like it and more to do with

whether Nikon think it's the best solution. Their marketing material has very much talked about the

photographer who likes to think about a shot, prepare it, slow down and then take it. I believe there are

people doing some styles of photography who can do that, and who will like the Df, but Nikon don't seem

to be claiming that the interface is faster, more efficient or more intuitive to use: it actively slows you

down. Like most people, I'd be a better photographer if I did slow down sometimes, but disciplining myself

is not the same thing as wanting to trip over the camera when I need it to get out of the way. Maybe Nikon

are wrong and the Df will actually be faster to use; maybe the dials can really be got out of the way (though

the EC dial still bothers me); maybe Nikon are just protecting the message about how easy the other

cameras are to use - but I really would have expected a message about why customers should pay a

premium for the improved ergonomics in the Df if Nikon believed that, for most customers, this was a valid

argument. It may still be valid for me, and I intend to give it a fair crack regardless of marketing.

 

There are minor features that can make a big difference to handling. The concept of using a high-end

Canon bothers me because - I believe - exposure compensation doesn't play with auto-ISO in manual

mode. People do care about adjusting the exposure in different increments, which dial does what and

which way they turn. If someone believes fractional stops don't matter, I'll swap my 50 f/1.8 for their f/1.4

(and I'll even buy an 85 f/1.8 to swap).

 

Dan: very nice.

 

Don: You can't use shutter priority with an AI lens on any Nikon other than the (sweet) FA, at least without

chipping it. With any non-electronic lens, the aperture lever moves through its full range (because the

camera doesn't behave differently with linear aperture AI-S lenses and nonlinear AI ones) and relies on the

hard stop positioned by the lens aperture ring. The ring (or manual setting, for pre-AI lenses on the Df) only

tells the meter how many stops it is reading above the final exposure during its normal (full aperture) use;

the camera also knows the absolute value if you tell the lens, giving you matrix metering.

 

The Df (and, having just checked, my D700) only reports aperture ring position in whole stops; I had

strongly assumed that this is the accuracy of the aperture follower ring, not a decision to limit the read-out

in the finder. If correct, the camera could not allow correctly for fractional aperture settings in aperture

priority, but treating an AI lens as pre-AI on a Df would have been a workaround. However, having just

experimented, it appears that 1/3 apertures (with a 135 f/2.8 AI-S) ARE affecting my D700's reported meter

reading in manual mode, so I have to assume that the exposure would be accurate. I'm not sure why we

only get full stops in the read-out - maybe Nikon think their milling may sometimes be off, so the click

stops may report odd numbers.

 

So, just to be clear, with a non-AI lens, the front dial on the Df tells the camera about the aperture in 1/3

stops? I can see advantages (accuracy) and disadvantages (one click on the lens is three on the camera)

to this - which is why I wondered if (like other Nikons but not in the same place in the Df's menus) there

was a way to choose. I'm unlikely to have a non-AI lens to take into a store when I try the Df...

<p>Andew, I wouldn't take too literally the Nikon marketing stuff about slowing down. It doesn't mean that the camera is slower to use. It can take pictures at 5.5 times a second, faster than my D700, and it has sophisticated autofocus etc. I think Nikon's marketing point is rather that it is a camera that encourages you to think, to take control. By having a clear interface.</p>

<p>Another aspect to this, the problem with the old interface of the D1x line, is that apertures and shutter speeds are presented to you as a string of numbers on a LCD. That's just about OK if you're used to interpreting those numbers and know your f-stops and shutter speeds backwards, and have used the camera for months or years, but it's not a good visual representation of what's happening.You're faced with a "60f2" in the viewfinder, and you have to try to work out what that means. If you're a student, then it's easy to get confused. You probably just go ahead and take the picture and rely on the camera to know what it's doing.</p>

<p>This is where dials have an enormous advantage - you can physically see that the "60" is on the physical lump of the camera that you associate with shutter speed (and always is associated with shutter speed on almost every camera you use), and that it is between the end stops of 8000th in one direction, down to "1" and "B" or whatever in the other direction. it gives you a physical sense of where you are, and a feeling as to whether you are in the middle of the range or at one extreme. You can put one type of camera down and pick another one up, like a medium format film camera, and carry on working in the same way. Which lets you concentrate on the photography rather than trying to remember how the dials on this one have been reprogrammed differently.</p>

<p>So, it encourages you to be aware of what you are doing, to understand it, and to take control of it. I think this is the kind of thing that Nikon have in mind by slowing down - not that the camera is actually slower to use. It ought to be the opposite unless Nikon have really seriously mucked it up - which they won't have - it ought to be faster to use because easier and more intuitive to control.</p>

Simon: I think our different interpretations come from our different camera backgrounds. My collection of

interchangeable lens cameras consists of: D800e, D700, F5, Eos 300D, Eos 500, Eos 620, Pentax 645

(original), Bessa R. Of these, only the Bessa has dedicated dials - everything else has a read-out in the

finder. I've used a Rolleiflex too; with that and the Bessa, I'm generally twiddling dials while looking at the

meter, but I'd prefer everything to be in my line of sight at once. The only time I've had trouble was with the

620, when I needed to use a button (M) hidden away from reach and I forgot it existed.

 

With my eye away from the finder of a Df, I have to look at the LCD for shutter speed (because the dial isn't

accurate enough and doesn't cover the full shutter speed range) and aperture (which may or may not be

set from the lens, and if it is, is reported only in whole stops) and at the other side of the camera for EC and

ISO. There's no meter reading in the LCD, so I need to be able to adjust at least one setting with the camera

to my eye. In that case, the legibility of the dials doesn't help me, though I concede that it helps that they

feel different. That I have to move my hands around to find the dials is actively disadvantageous. Maybe I

can tell their positions by feel - which I'd approve of - but, other that the shutter speed dial "getting stuck"

at a couple of settings - this doesn't seem to be the case in the Df design. There's certainly no tactile

feedback on the Fujis (beyond the click stops, obviously).

 

If I'd been brought up on an F3, my instinct would probably be to work out where the dial was and look for

a position within a range, just as one might read an analogue watch by the hand position or control a

computer via a touch screen. I completely understand that this doesn't mesh with programmable dials and

a read-out in a disconnected display. However, I'm used to the precision of a digital watch, pixel-perfect

mouse movement and numbers for aperture, ISO and shutter speed. I've no problem with the wheels being

in the best place to reach and the numbers being in the best place to see AND THOSE NOT BEING THE

SAME PLACE. You need very large dials to get the same precision any other way, and what's really

missing is tactile absolute feedback, which the Df's controls don't really give (but, for the record, Leica's

off-centre shutter speed dial does).

 

Some people prefer watches with hands, others a digital read-out. (I have a Pebble - I can choose.) I've no

problem with Nikon catering to the camera equivalent of the former, but different is not always better (few

things are better for all uses), and "familiar" is not necessarily "intuitive", even after years of trying to adapt. (I will always have English as a native language, and may always have to double-take when something is different in French, but I won't claim English is the easiest language to learn.)

<p>After writing the above, I realised it makes me sound like a rabid fan of the interface that I'm used to - I was trying to say that, while I'm comfortable with dedicated dials - I "think" in separate dials and read-outs. I forgot to include the GF2 (incidentally, I love the dual-mode dial) and the V1 on the above list, but they're all very much programmable dials. However, the interface for all of these cameras is - more or less - different. I'm not in love with Nikon's current arrangement; there are many things I'd change, I have vague envy of Canon's big spinny dial even if it's a bit hard to reach (has the patent expired on it yet?) and I don't mind having more controls, rather than aliasing them to the same thing. I do accept that having a small number of dials behaving modally is an interface issue.<br />

<br />

But I don't think an interface that's based on moving the hands around, or having the left hand free (rather than operating zoom, focus and supporting the camera) is likely to be adopted universally. The kit zoom is too popular, even if there were no cost issues in the additional dials. I'm perfectly happy for Nikon to change their interface, even adding more wheels (although there comes a point when having dials that are mostly not used is more confusing that helpful - people already complain about "too many buttons"), but the Df doesn't seem, to me, to be the way. But, as ever, I have to handle it and see whether I have an epiphany.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>A lot of you guys really need to try shooting the Df for a week or two. Some of the comments are from another planet.<br>

You can set apertures in 1/3 steps and also the same with shutter speed. The Df has a myriad of alternative ways of setting it up and which to prefer is up to each user [...]</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Agree with Bjorn. This also works in Shutter priority. I think people complaining about the "1 stop" limitation of the shutter speed wheel do not understand or know about this function. I spent the last few days shooting the Df several hours a day. I actually think the solution of setting it in manual and then being able to quickly adjust the shutter speed to he light condition while looking through the viewfinder is a neat feature. I actually have shot more in Manual mode than ever (my work took me to Las Vegas and as I was busy until 5 PM each day, I mainly shot at night. Being able to use high ISO certainly came in handy, too)... And yeah, Bjorn, please don't leave...</p>

<div></div>

<p>Addendum: the mention shutter speed function is called "Easy Shutter Speed Shift" and is activated in the menu f11. You can assign the function to the front or back wheel, though the back one is the default and feels more natural to me.</p>

<p>Benjamin: I know about it, at least from the "having read it in the manual" perspective. You can, I believe, shift up to 2/3 of a stop either side of the currently set value (i.e. not as far as the next stop) - or below the bottom setting on the dial out to 30s. This setting, I believe, stays in place if you move the dial. So one might dial in 1/60s (hmm, need more light), shift slower 1/3 of a stop (hmm, need more light), shift slower 1/3 of a stop (hmm, need more light), switch to 1/30s and need to move the dial back two clicks to neutral. Please let me know if it automatically re-zeroes itself, which may be its own set of problems.<br />

<br />

I'm not absolutely against the dial working in whole stops, I know you can just ignore it and use the conventional control wheel, and I'm not saying that the shift is useless. But I'm also not entirely comfortable with the "switching between two dials" solution for trying to get 1/3 stops <i>and</i> using the dedicated dial. As ever, if I criticize the behaviour, it's because it <i>sounds</i> as though it's a problem, and I'm happy to be told that it isn't, especially if it allows me to understand <i>why</i> it isn't. I promise I'll try for myself when I get the chance.<br />

<br />

Nice shot of the Bellagio, by the way. (Last time I was there it was 100 degrees, I'd badly twisted my knee and it took me two hours to walk the length of the strip from the Sahara. People still kept trying to get me to see strip shows. I took some not very good photos, and some kind soul gave me their water bottle because I looked so pathetic.)<br />

<br />

A few of bits of news regurgitated from a rumour site, since they're relevant:<br />

<br />

1) We made several comments about whether the Df should be so exclusive that it was made of carbon fibre. <a href="http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d5300/features07.htm">Looks like</a> the D5300 got there first. There goes the neighbourhood. :-)<br />

2) <a href="http://www.nikon-image.com/products/info/2013/1212.htm">Apparently</a>, Nikon are short of Df stocks in Japan, but not so much elsewhere. How much of this is enthusiasm for this kind of thing in the Japanese market (maybe there's a regional cultural reason for Nikon deciding the Df would be amazingly popular? it wouldn't be the first time something has seemed strange to the global market has been launched to great fanfare - see the 1 series)<br />

3) <a href="http://www.nikon-image.com/support/whatsnew/2013/1211.htm">Apparently</a> the case doesn't fit. Genius. :-)</p>