Advertising and the world of wedding photography

<p>I've been considering starting a wedding photography business for well over a year now. I'm extremely comfortable with the camera, lighting, editing, etc. By comfortable I mean I've been shooting in the film business as my primary profession for 7 years now, and for intensive purposes have mastered high end DSLRs and my photographic style. I have not mastered lighting, but if there is one thing I have learned in the past 7 years; no matter how long I live or how much I shoot, I do not think I shall ever master light, for it is the only invisible thing we can see.</p>

<p>My real dilemma with starting a business comes from advertising. As a filmmaker, your work is basically your advertising. Producers hire you based on what they see. And once they work with you and like you, they will continually hire you. In wedding photography every client must be sold from scratch (at least in theory) and the quality of the pictures is almost irrelevant (Of course assuming they are of professional grade). Even worse, its not just selling brides on the idea that you are the best photographer for the job, but that they need a photographer in the first place. Sadly with so many DSLRs in the sub $1000 range with increasingly better attributes I've noticed just how important it is to help brides realize the need for a "professional artist" and not their friend with a "professional tool used by real artists".</p>

<p>And so I've come here before all you fine wedding photographers and I'm asking the question, how do you market to brides in a way that shows them the importance of a "real photographer"? How do you tell people the importance of a real photographer? Real art?</p>

<p>I really would like to put a page on my website attempting to explain all of this, but honestly I don't think it would do any good and it would probably be a deterrent to as many clients as it would a benefit. Do you all just charge more and thereby make it to a class that knows well enough that you get what you pay for? Do you all offer the "discount package" specifically for the penny pitcher who's been considering the friend who just bought a shiny new coolpix\cellphone\DSLR w\ Kit Lens? Do you advertise in bridal websites/magzines or do you do it strictly by mouth?</p>

<p>I appreciate your input :D</p>

<p>I wonder if I am correct in assuming that you have not actually shot any/many weddings yet. Everyone has to start somewhere but I would like to state what ought to be obvious first. Wedding photography is a distinct kind of photography and good wedding photographers have skills and techniques that are quite different from other kinds of photography. So I would caution you not to assume that your experience in the film world will easily translate itself to wedding work. </p>

<p>You said you want to show brides the value in having a "real photographer". I would ask you to use the term "real wedding photographer". I had a discussion with two other photographers recently. One was a fairly famous fashion photographer (you have see his work on the covers at the magazine stand) and the other a former National Geographic photographer. The fashion photographer said, "I would have no clue how to shoot a wedding" to which the NG guy said, "me either". So if you have not done weddings before as a second shooter or on your own you are WAY out in front of yourself. There is a whole lot for you to learn before you risk someone's once-in-a-lifetime day. So. I am going to assume you want to charge real money....More than the $400.00 whatever it takes deals on craigslist. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>You said, "Producers hire you based on what they see. And once they work with you and like you, they will continually hire you. In wedding photography every client must be sold from scratch (at least in theory) and the quality of the pictures is almost irrelevant (Of course assuming they are of professional grade).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I respectfully beg to disagree with just about all of this. First of all B & G 's just like producers hire you based upon what they see. You have to possess a very good portfolio of wedding work. People want you to show your proof. You may be able to show them a picture you took of Johnny Depp and wow them temporarily but you have to show them weddings. Not only to sell them on you skills but to find out what they really want and to plan your shoot to give it to them. There are a lot of ways to shoot a wedding and it is up to the B & G to choose which one they want. Then.....did you really say "the quality of the pictures is irrelevant"? The hell it is. What does "professional grade" mean to you? Properly exposed? Cool effects in photoshop? A wedding is a story that unfolds fast and furious. If you miss a shot because of inexperience you can't yell 'cut' and start again. Once you have missed the kiss or shot it from the wrong angle, it is over. And you have a disaster on your hands. You have to know where to be ahead of the action, in a church a synagogue and a commercial venue. You need to know how you are going to light your shots ahead of the shot and how your story will unfold ahead of post production. In essence a wedding photographer story-boards each and every wedding. Either in his or her mind through vast experience or on paper while learning. Each ceremony may be unique, each venue different, each couple is different and the rules they set (and you set) may be different. Just when you figured you had an easy wedding in the park, you find out the ceremony is at noon, the bride a white girl in a white dress and the groom a black guy in a black tux. You had better have that arrow in your quiver or there is the devil to pay. Photoshop won't save you every time. </p>

<p>So tell us that you have experience as a wedding photographer, what kinds of weddings you have done before and we can help you learn to advertise your skills. I mean no disrespect of your professional competence as a photographer. None at all. But unless you have experience as a wedding photographer let us help you with that. The first thing you are going to need is to learn how to do it. You can start your prospecting efforts at the same time you are learning. Would that be helpful to you? </p>

<p>There are many differences between advertising as a filmmaker and advertising as a Wedding Photographer: probably the first element we should differentiate, is that you probably don’t do much (if any) ‘advertising’ as a film cameraman. You might however do a bit of marketing.<br>

Another point, which you have touched on, but I’d expand upon – is that you are presently dealing with Film Producers – and they each (assumed) are professionals in their own right and have (assumed) vast knowledge of Film and Cine Work and Workmanship – so in a sense you are selling like a mechanic selling his skill to a Formula 1 Driver – and not the next door neighbour who “thinks” he knows a lot about cars.<br>

Thirdly, with a Wedding Gig (or the selling of your services to it) you are often dealing with emotion: and that combined with a lack of technical skill or understanding means that sometimes (often?) the Photographer might assume elements of the shoot are understood by the Client and these issues are not: and also on this point, sometimes (often?) the Client (in their mind) feels that they have explained or understood certain elements of the Shoot – and they indeed have not.</p>

<p>So – in respect of your Advertising and in regard to my general method: I’d suggest you look at how you make your advertising <strong><em>slanted towards getting you interviews</em></strong>, with the prospective Brides and then work toward explaining from at that time, the values of your worth as a Wedding Photographer.<br>

In this regard you could advertise as a “boutique business” and etc – or any method which is enticing and attractive to your target sector and affords the least compunction on the Client, to move forward and have a meeting with you. <br>

Your marketing could (should) have a cohesive link and the same thread to “boutique” or whatever tone you choose for your direct advertising.<br>

No, I would not suggest you place a mini-tutorial on the webpage explaining all this.<br>

And, No, I would not suggest that you offer Discounts. </p>

<p>***</p>

<p>Couple of Questions -</p>

<ol>

<li>In this sentence: “I've been shooting in the film business as my primary profession for 7 years now and <strong><em>for intensive purposes</em></strong> have mastered high end DSLRs and my photographic style.” What specifically are the <em>“intensive purposes”</em> which have caused you to master high end DSLR’s?</li>

<li>Do you have any Wedding Work, to show the Prospects?</li>

</ol>

<p>WW<br>

<br>

</p>

<p>I hear it over and over again - word of mouth is the best "advertising".<br>

I wouldn't spend your money on magazine ads or anything else like that. Facebook is free. You want clients who ALREADY know the value of a "real photographer" as you put it.<br>

If you play the discount game you will always be known as a discount photographer. Don't start down that path.<br>

T</p>

<p>Every market is different and Skyler's geography might make his situation unique. </p>

<p>Being near ISU in a small(ish) town, I can imagine many wannabe wedding photographers as well as credentialed ISU graduates after the same limited market making service differentiation more difficult. </p>

<p>Building on Facebook is a process and I concur that word of mouth is not just important, it's almost modern marketing in its entirety for this type of business - they come because you've created buzz and got people talking about you**. I see you have a fragmented online presence; I'd start by making your personal Facebook page private, then consolidating the business on one professional Facebook page cross-linked with your professional website, and delete (or make private) inactive accounts on Google+, MySpace, Vimeo etc.. </p>

<p>As for service differentiation, people for the most part don't like sales pitches so the idea should be "how do I package my content so that it sells itself" - your photography and online presence should speak for itself as perceived by the client which you have little control over; they're either impressed or they're not, which makes it even more important to limit online postings to your best work, and develop a firm grasp of your competitor's work so you truly know where you stand in the value/quality/price gradation in your market. </p>

<p>**<a href="

<blockquote>

<p>I would ask you to use the term "<strong>real</strong> wedding photographer"</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

What determines real or otherwise?</p>

<p>@steve. Look at what Skyler said, <em>"....I'm asking the question, how do you market to brides in a way that shows them the importance of a "real photographer"</em></p>

<p>I am making a point with him that there are a lot kinds of professional photographers. Wedding photographers have skills that are common to all professional photographers but also skills that are unique to wedding photographers. I think it is wrong to believe that just because someone is a good photojournalist they are a good wedding photographer. In other words a professional fashion photographer might be a very amateur (in skill and training) wedding photographer.</p>

<p>There is a tendency on this site and others to dismiss the $400.00 craigslist photographer as an amateur or somehow less than professional. I think this is a mistake. I have seen some seriously good work from new and inexpensive wedding photographers. Price is, after all, just a marketing decision. Additionally we have all shot our first, second and third weddings. How we did with them reflected a lot of things but mostly training and preparation for what are unique photographic events. The basic elements of photography apply but there are many additional skills to be acquired before one is mature in the field. </p>

<p>Skyler was clear that he thinks that there are incompetent people out there who have just bought a camera and gone into the business. This is true but it would be a mistake to assume that there are not some really good folks working out there on the cheap. Skyler says he has "mastered high-end DSLRs" What does that mean? My D4 has an easy mode on it. What is a high-end DSLR? An expensive one? The D5100 is a vastly better wedding camera than the D2's we were using (and some still use) not so long ago. Just looking for buzz words.</p>

<p>@skyler. I see from your website that you have done at least one wedding before. You have a couple of nice shots on your portfolio. You need a lot more of them. Try selecting shots that show a variety of styles so you can use them to work with clients. Also you will need a hard-copy portfolio. (I also suggest you take a look at skin tones very carefully when you do.) It is critical for face-to-face meetings. Face to face meetings greatly enhance your chances of being selected. </p>

<p>You are in a relatively small market in the Pocatello area. I am assuming that you are still there as that is what your website says. There is confusion in your website presence because some say Malad and some say Pocatello. Word of mouth will be critical for you. Reach out to the people in your area who have access to brides and grooms. The local Mormon bishops and women's society folks for example. Other clergy. Wedding planners and the folks at flower stores. I am sure that you can travel throughout the area so don't forget to get out to the smaller towns in the area. There is noting like getting a personal visit to make people more likely to refer you. Take your portable portfolio and show them your work. Here is an example. Drop by the Cotton Tree Inn and see their conference person just to "introduce yourself". Let them know that you are available for weddings and other events. Have a card and even better a brochure to leave with them. They may be distant at first but you are just breaking the ice.</p>

<p>I am a huge fan of charity work to get your name out there. You can volunteer with various charities to do their events. Hand out your cards and let them know what you do. It is easier to refer people to someone you already know and whose work you value. There are 6 fraternities/sororities at ISU. Get to know them. Offer to photograph their events for them or do a group shot for them. You are just planting seeds. One of these is a theater arts oriented fraternity. Perhaps they would be interested in your experience in this regard. </p>

<p>southeasternidahophotography.com is available. Ask your SEO person if you should snag it or something similar. If you don't have an SEO person get a good book on the subject. Check out google metrics to see what people are searching regarding photography in your area. I agree with separating your photography page from your personal facebook page. It may be nice that you are interested in gun ownership but it may be a turnoff for a prospective client. (Just an example. Not a political statement.) <br>

Do you shoot rodeo? Lots of young people and they get married from time to time. </p>

<p>These are just examples of the idea of networking. It is important that you plan to do it everyday. If you are going to make your living as a wedding photographer it is what you do whenever you are not actually photographing or doing post. Your priorities are:<br>

Photograph weddings.<br>

Prostpect, network and sell your services.</p>

<p>Do post production*<br>

Everything else. </p>

<p>In that order. </p>

<p>*always on time.</p>

<p>These are just ideas for you to consider. There will come a time when people will get to know you well and you will be able to back off of the prospecting a little. Good luck.</p>

<p> </p>

<p><strong>I've been considering starting a wedding photography business for well over a year now. I'm extremely comfortable with the camera, lighting, editing, etc. By comfortable I mean I've been shooting in the film business as my primary profession for 7 years now, and for intensive purposes have mastered high end DSLRs and my photographic style. I have not mastered lighting, but if there is one thing I have learned in the past 7 years; no matter how long I live or how much I shoot, I do not think I shall ever master light, for it is the only invisible thing we can see.</strong></p>

<p>There is a great tendency for many budding wedding photographers to try and run before they can walk and I am firmly of the belief that anyone new to wedding photography should not charge initially, at least not until they can clearly demonstrate that they can produce consistent wedding photography of a merchantable standard. So this creates the question of how you might go about getting that experience in the first place. The best route (but often the hardest to get into) is of course to try and assist an established wedding professional because on-the-job training is always the most valuable, and this may lead to second shooting opportunities which will help with an initial portfolio. Failing that, photographing the weddings of friends might be another option, or advertising yourself as offering a limited number of free weddings in order to build an image bank, with expectations set as appropriate. But even so, wedding photography is incredibly demanding and if there are particular areas where you're not confident I would also recommend some good training courses or seminars beforehand. And of course ensure you have some attractive products lined up so that you can at least gain some sales afterwards where possible.<br>

<br>

When you have very little to offer brides, the key thing is to engage with them in the right way because old-fashioned as it sounds "people buy people". If they like you and trust you then you are halfway there. But I would advise you to hold back a little on the "real photographer" line because you cannot yet support this with a credible portfolio of wedding photographs and if you set expectations too high then you are likely to come to grief. <br>

<br>

As far as advertising for portfolio building clients goes, start by putting the word out verbally, chat on Facebook, tell your friends and family, let everybody know that you are looking to do this for free to build your portfolio and I think you'll soon have some takers (screen the prospects carefully though). Social networking is very good for this kind of thing. Remember you are not a wedding photographer yet, so marketing yourself as if you are one already is not advisable at this stage.<br>

<br>

Once you have at least two good sample albums of two entire weddings to show your prospects, and if the photography is rocksolid, then that would be the time to start charging. How you then market yourself is a whole different ballgame.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>And so I've come here before all you fine wedding photographers and I'm asking the question, how do you market to brides in a way that shows them the importance of a "real photographer"? How do you tell people the importance of a real photographer? Real art?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I think your question has an unavoidable answer. You can't. You can't teach taste and good judgment. You can't teach them to prefer someone more experienced when that factor simply doesn't matter to them; when price is their driving force.</p>

<p>You are in a corner of the world but here is a possibility. You may be able to get attractive people to stage wedding shots for you. Get some women and men in wedding clothes and at least stage the formals. That could add to your port. I also agree with Lindsay. Getting real-world experience is important. You have at least one wedding under your belt. You just need some more.</p>

<p>Do you know any wedding photographers in SLC that you could second-shoot for? That might give you some good experience as well as some LDS temple shots that might be good in your area. </p>

<p>Also let us know that you are still reading these posts so we know whether to continue or not.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>You can't teach them to prefer someone more experienced when that factor simply doesn't matter to them; when price is their driving force.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

I see this said here regularly and it's demeaning to potential clients. There are plenty of people for whom photography is not the most important thing, or even very important if they have a few snaps. That's a preference, not something to "teach them" or anything related to "experience." It's a matter of priorities in their life.<br>

<br>

I've pointed this out before also - I didn't have a photographer at my wedding. We didn't want any strangers at our wedding and we got married a long way from where I had been living. Everybody that worked the wedding, except the unavoidable justice of the peace, was someone we knew, or with someone we knew. This included the band and the caterer. Having the right kind of wedding was more important than having a professional photographer we didn't know. My father took some photos, one of which has been framed in the home since then.<br>

<br>

As I said, a matter of priorities. Saying all these people have bad taste, bad judgement and are cheap is rude and demeaning, and basically untrue.</p>

<p>This is right Jeff. And that is why a bridle at the beating the $400.00 Clist people take here too. For some people they are at a perfect price point. I have also seen some pretty darned good work from them. </p>

<p>Some wedding photographers are/were able to command thousands for a wedding. They are upset at having to compete with the C-list guy and disparage their work. The fact is that this is the world we live in now. </p>

<p>I also agree with the issue of crabbing the bride and groom. It is their day and they are the sole authority on how they want it to go. A wise photographer sees this and adapts his/her style to their needs. There is the notion that we can some how upsell someone who does not value high end photography. That would be a hard sell indeed. Now if the MOB is paying......</p>

<p>Finally I have to look at the $400.00 price point. The photographer invests something like three to four days at most into the actual contract. A day of selling, and a day of shooting, a day of prep (or two) . Even if it took 40 hours to do all of this when you compare it to a retail job it is pretty good. If the photographer can shoot 3 $400.00 weddings a month they are taking home more than a full time cashier and about as much as a department manager at Walmart earns. And the photog can do it without hiring day care, etc. These $400.00 to $500.00 per wedding photographers consider theirs a serious job and indeed it is. </p>

<p>If I were starting out I would shoot weddings for that or less if it would help me build my business and grow my referral network. A couple of years ago I shot a wedding for a GI back from Iraq. He had little money and his wife less. I accepted a $100.00 gift certificate to a restaurant that the FOB thoughtfully offered me. I worked just as hard on that wedding as I would on any wedding. Anything else would have been unprofessional and down right wrong. </p>

<p>Jeff, I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. I am saying that if someone has $400 to spend on a wedding photographer, and they find an inexperienced guy who'll do it for $200, they will choose that guy if price is their primary driving force. You can tell them how a more experienced photographer will be better prepared, have adequate backup gear, and will know where to be. If they are buying on price, you won't win the argument. It's judgment. Are you telling me you don't think hiring a lower experience photographer shows bad judgment? Do you hire plumbers based on price? It's true there are bargains in any profession but all things being equal, I'd put my money on someone with experience over someone who has little or none. They will take the risk and pocket the $200 because in the end, photographs of their wedding isn't their top priority, just like the choice you made. They're there to, well, be married. Likewise, if you show them two photos, and they like the one shot at f11 with everything in focus as opposed to one at f2.8 where only the eyes are in focus, that's a matter of taste. I didn't say bad taste, so please don't put words in my mouth. The OP asked how you can teach them to appreciate "good" photography. You can't. The customer knows what they want, not what you want them to want.</p>

<p>It's disappointing that you decided my post was meant to demean and degrade people. Shame on you. I was merely answering the OP and expressing my opinion. If you go back and re-read the post I made and the quoted question it was directed to, I'm sure you will see that there's nothing offensive in it.</p>

<p>I appreciate the comments Lindsay and Rick. I should have mentioned I have been a 2nd wedding photographer 3 times and a solo wedding photographer 3 times. I have posted links below to the last two solo weddings, one is a virtual album the other a gallery. 1 was for a friend, one was paid by a business associate that knew of my film work, but it was very low, I did it more as a favor. </p>

<p>My 2nd wedding Solo. Keep in mind I only shot this with 1 body (almost immediate the AF went down on my 2nd body) and only the assistance of my ever supportive wife.<br>

<a href="/wedding-photography-forum/">http://www.adorapro.com/sproctor/book/briana/tfwswmpk8n</a></p>

<p>My 3rd wedding. This one was for a friend, I was attending anyways and I offered to shoot for free in trade for experience. There was no primary photographer, again, I was only assisted by my wife.<br>

<a href="http://www.skylerproctorphotography.com/p173605080">http://www.skylerproctorphotography.com/p173605080</a><br>

<br>

I would like to very much second, however I have a really hard time with it. Every pro I've met is usually intimidated by my experience. There is practically not a camera or lens in Nikon's lineup except for the stuff a year or less old that I haven't shot for at least a month. I guess I haven't shot anything 500mm and up, but between the 400mm F/2.8 and the 14-24, I've pretty much shot all the professional glass extensively. Between that and my film experience, all the pros I meet shy away, either like I'm going to be serious competition or like there is nothing they can teach me. Now I try really hard not to mention anything I've done or shot with, but even then, somehow when they ask about what you've shot or what gear you have, it always comes up. I am actually really frustrated about that. In the film biz, people are more than happy to talk about stuff, or share ideas, or whatever, but to date, all the photographers I've met have been super "hands off". Its like I'm going to steal their next wedding away. Which I understand, I really do, its just frustrating. I just want to talk. Whats wrong with talking about ideas or experiences or whatever? Whats wrong with me showing up and shooting as a second? Its how I got in the film business, but when there is a set of 50 people, whats one more person..<br /><br>

<br>

I see many points of view here. I do not necessarily intend to make weddings my full time business. Perhaps one day, but right now, I just really enjoy it and would love to shoot more. (one of the reason's I've had difficulty building it, never have time to work on it, but now I've switched jobs and have more time to dedicate to building it). I've thought perhaps I should start out small, charge low amounts, $500 a wedding. None the less I've got well over $10,000 in camera equipment right now, and I'm about to add another $1,500 to $2,000 in flashes, so just based on the equipment I'm bringing seems like I should be charging more. I mean going to a place like lensrentals.com it costs over $500 just to rent the equipment I have, not to mention the flashes I'll be getting or the return shipping costs. Seems like the principle of once a cheap photographer always a cheap photographer would apply, and its even been mentioned here. None the less many photographers including many famous ones listed on the photo.net "Business of Wedding photography" started out small and started charging more and more. Of course I do not expect to start charging $400 and move up to $2500 in the course of a year, but it seems like incremental price increases will not kill a photographer, as long as he doesn't market himself as being "cheap". Seems like if you market yourself as quality and charge modest amounts and as time goes on and your business increases, slowly increase in fee and eventually your fee will match your marketing. Any thoughts? Has anyone here started small and gotten bigger over time? Did you notice any bumps in the road doing so? (i.e. brides complaining you were less the year before kind of thing?)<br>

<br>

I've often thought one of my best advantages is to do it as a wedding video/photo package. I would have no problem with the video side (and in experience at least I'm more qualified for that anyways) and I think I could offer a better service doing both than just doing photos and then another contractor doing the video. It does represent a significant investment though because presently I have 2 pro grade DSLR bodies and fine range of lenses, however I do my video and stills on these 2 bodies, which means it makes a great video or photo package, not both at the same time. The other problem is audio; unfortunately something I worry about a lot when doing wedding videos because I am very much accustomed to having an audio person there handling all of that, its one thing I don't know very well. So I figured I would start slow by just doing photos and once I was getting more business I could upgrade to doing videos then. Perhaps though I should just bite the bullet as I could probably get more jobs offering both. Does anyone here offer photos and video as a package deal? Naturally I wouldn't do them both by myself, I would call on some of my film contacts to assist me.<br>

<br>

Seems like there is a huge range of wedding photographers, from the $400 to the $4000. I'm afraid in my area, I'll probably be limited to the more inexpensive weddings, but I do travel quite a ways for business, even to Salt Lake City. So I have been wondering, is it better to concentrate on one individual area or try and spread out? In the town I live there are about 2000 people and a $300 wedding photographer is considered expensive. They are farmers and they just don't see the point in spending very much on photos. So I've always kind of expected I would advertise elsewhere. Does anyone else live in Y little town by advertise in X big town and just drive? Any suggestions?<br>

Patrick, I was afraid of that; I was just hoping that there was a way to help people understand.<br>

I appreciate all your thoughts. I have truly thought over all of your advice, I appreciate everyone's input.</p>

<p>Thanks again!<br>

<br>

<br>

</p>

<p>So, the gist of this thread has shifted focus toward clients that do not think wedding photography is any sort of a priority, that actual experience is not terribly necessary, and $400 per wedding for at least 3 days labor, is a good living.</p>

<p>Opinions mostly forwarded by those who do not make their living shooting wedding photography supported by their own anecdotal experience such as not having a photographer at their wedding , which at best seems oddly inappropriate to a site dedicated to ... professional wedding photography.</p>

<p>Jeff, you are NOT the target audience of the people seeking advice on this site. The fact is, there ARE clients who do place a value on wedding photography, but are <em>not knowledgable</em> as to what it takes to do it well, and <strong>do it reliably</strong>. That is the frustration that Patrick seemed to be voicing ... and he is not alone. In lieu of any educational efforts as to what it takes to do it well, how experience can and does matter, and how it requires quite a commitment financially and time-wise to do it responsibly ... clients have simply defaulted to competitive price as the reference.</p>

<p>The race to the bottom gains speed. Photography is being de-valued across the board ... and even photographers are adding fuel to the downward rush.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>The fact is, there ARE clients who do place a value on wedding photography, but are <em>not knowledgable</em> as to what it takes to do it well, and <strong>do it reliably</strong>.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

That is true, but the complaints on this site are about people who don't seem to value photography "enough," that word being what photographers think is important. I have been shown some terrible wedding photographs, over and over (even from an excellent wedding photographer), with glowing comments by the clients. Most people do not value photography in the way that wedding photographers think they should. If you are dealing with high end clients, Mark, it's expected that you should hear that the quality is paramount, but I know a lot of middle market people who don't care.<br>

<br>

It's like catering. I care a huge amount about the food that I serve people at events. I had some friends who were phenomenal caterers at my own wedding. The food was better than any wedding I have ever attended, including a couple of very "high society" weddings. I cared about having the best food because I wanted the guests to have a great experience. Most weddings I have been to have nothing like the food I had served. Then again, I didn't have to pay the going rate.<br>

<br>

It comes down to priorities. A lot of posts here are about how the clients don't want to pay for great photography. Well ask them what they are paying for, instead of why they aren't paying more for photography. It should be enlightening.<br>

</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Photography is being de-valued across the board ... and even photographers are adding fuel to the downward rush.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

I don't think photography is being de-valued. Prices have dropped a lot for a lot of photography, but it's because the average person doesn't want to pay for a Richard Avedon style wedding album. They want photos of themselves and their guests as mnemonics, things to remember, and not art. <br>

</p>

<p>Jeff, I would fully expect people that come to a site dedicated to professional wedding photography to be advocates of ... wedding photography ... not food catering, or cake making, or music, or wedding dresses. Why is this so surprising?</p>

<p>Personally, I do not care what people who prioritize other aspects of a wedding over photography think or do. They are not the market. However I do believe there are some who do so mistakenly out of ignorance ... and fully expect better results than they get in the end. I recently read a report where there was a good enough percentage of client's who lamented not paying for better photographs at the expense of other transient aspects of a wedding ... not a majority, but enough to warrant trying to win them over before the fact ... because after the fact is too late with this type of purchase.</p>

<p>While it may be true that some clients do not place the same value on wedding photography that some wedding photographers think they should, why should that deter the dedicated wedding photographer from being a passionate advocate of their chosen profession? </p>

<p>So, I happen to agree with those who feel that "some, not all" clients do not value it enough, which again should come as no surprise since I am passionate about it ... just like any good provider of any service would be. Not just from an art perspective, but also from a family archival POV. At many levels of our society, weddings have become the last bastion of extended family connectivity, almost a reunion of sorts ... and a place where current and past friends gather. Unfortunately, the other is funerals.</p>

<p>Again, you use the anecdotal evidence of your personal wedding preferences as an indication of the aggregate ... where I am drawing my opinion from doing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of weddings, from low mid-range to higher-end which I worked my up to. These include some jobs from all over the US ... as well as tracking current experiences of other wedding photographers on a number of wedding photography sites besides this one. I do so as a matter of business practice.</p>

<p>Based on my direct and long term experiences, lower and middle market clients are just as demanding as high-end ones are. In fact, I am always shocked when I take a lower pay wedding just how demanding the clients can be. It is just human nature ... people do NOT think they get what they pay for, they think they deserve just as much attention and quality when it comes time to shoot and process their wedding photos ... and that they just happened to shrewdly strike a bargain to get it.</p>

<p>BTW, good photography is not the domain of the higher-end lofty client, there are just as many, if not more, photography lovers in the low to mid-range market. In fact, I built my business on just that market segment ... then branched out and up later while still taking less paying jobs if it sounded interesting, or if the folks were in need and I had the day free.</p>

<p>It should also be noted that the average person has NEVER wanted to pay for a "Richard Avedon style" wedding album, so that point is moot. You are right that most clients want photos of themselves and their guests as a remembrance. However, I do not agree that they do not care what they or their guests <strong>look like</strong>. Implying otherwise shows a lack of experience in dealing with clients after the fact, and belies the many "Disappointed Brides" who paid for "<em>beer in a plastic cup"</em> wedding photography, and expected "<em>Champagne in crystal flutes"</em> results and didn't get it.</p>

<p>So, the devaluation of wedding photography is more at the time of purchase, but not so much at the point of delivery. Suddenly it takes on greater importance, and amnesia sets in regarding the whole purchase decision bargaining process. <br>

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<p>Marc,<br>

So how do you do it? We've heard what other people think, but do you think its possible to have a sort of "wedding photography education" to brides? Obviously if its phrased that way, or listed as "all you need to know about wedding photography" its probably not going to the best way to reach bride, but do you have something on your website that helps brides understand the difference between an unprofessional wedding photographer and the professional wedding photographer? Even just subtle hints? Or do you do it all in person? I see you've talked about all kind of weddings you've shot, even cheap ones, so how do you appeal to such a wide range? Do you leave prices out of your website? or do you offer a wide range of packages or is that savvy brides looking for the best on a deal get a hold of you and ask for better deals? How do you market if at all? Do you think its such a terrible thing to start with lower prices and then work your way up? Even still catering to the mid to lower budgets? I know these are a lot of questions, but you seem to be brimming with experience and knowledge so you would seem to be the person to weigh in on these questions :).</p>

<p>Cyrus, I haven't a clue. I seriously doubt an individual can do much. Yes, we can be informative at the point of contact, however, by then it is often too late, or suspect as a marketing ploy to charge more money.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the industry and/or associations at large haven't been of much help, and I don't know if they could help. However, contrary to the theme of this thread, it isn't quite that bad ... yet.</p>

<p>It might be helpful to step back and clear up a few misconceptions. In a snapshot survey of over 100 wedding photographers it was found that $400 weddings do NOT make up very much of the wedding assignments. Under $1,000 photographers only make up about 6.6 of the total. $1,000 to $3,000 photographers make up the vasty majority at about 56%. $3,000 to $5,000 a bit over 31%, and over $5,000 are about 5.7%</p>

<p>The average cost of a wedding photography package comes in at $2,600 when this survey total was averaged with one by the Knot that surveyed 20,000 brides. On average, the total time spent per wedding (meetings, communications, shooting, editing is 65 hours. On average, of the $2,600 total per wedding 32% goes to expenses leaving $1,786 ÷ 65 hrs = $28 per hour average.</p>

<p>If you shoot a wedding for $400 and only spend 35 hours on it total, and spend less percentage on expenses (20%), you will make $9 per hour ... a bit more than federal minimum wage usually reserved for unskilled labor.</p>

<p>If anything, the above statistics are trending downward (especially this year), and the cost of doing business responsibly is trending sharply upwards ... which is why I am personally trending myself out of shooting weddings as any kind of a viable business ... especially in my geographical area.</p>

<p>Marc</p>

<p> </p>