A good lens for dance photography?

<p>I'm not sure if someone posted a question similar to this already but here it goes. I recently was given a lens to try out. A Tamron AF Aspherical 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 lens. I wanted to see if anyone has an idea about this lens and if it would be good for shooting a dance competition that I'm going to be going to at the end of this month.<br /><br />The compeition will be inside a gym and it's ballroom and latin style dancing. So just mainly indoor shooting with probably plenty of light.<br /><br />Any help is appreciated!<br /><br />=).</p>

<p>If there really is plenty of light then any lens will do! However, gyms generally are not very bright (although it may seem they are to the eye). In general, I find a fast lens is necessary. I use the 135/2 or the 200/2.8 or the 24-70/2.8 zoom if you are closer. A 70-200 f2.8 would be good too. Set your ISO high and pick a minimum of 1/250th shutter speed (1/500 or higher is better). If there are spot lights then there is indeed more light and you can use a slower lens (I sometime use the 70-200 f4), but make sure that you have metered correctly for the light under the spots. You have not told us your camera as this will make a difference to its low light shooting capability.</p>

<p>Ah, that's right! My camera is a Canon EOS Rebel XT DSLR with a built in ready made flash. I don't own an external flash right now. So my lens would work and work well with this type of camera that I have?</p>

<p>[[i'm not sure if someone posted a question similar to this already but here it goes.]]</p>

<p>You did: http://www.photo.net/casual-conversations-forum/00bT0W</p>

<p>And no, that Tamron lens is not useful for shooting indoor dance photography.</p>

<p>I'd suggest Canon's 85mm f/1.8 lens. It should allow you to be a reasonable distance back from the dancers, and if there is not much light you can open up the aperture. You might want a monopod to lessen camera shake (not necessary if the venue is brightly lit).</p>

<p>However, because it's not a zoom, you will be stuck if your shooting position is too close to the dancers. It would be a good idea to visit the venue beforehand and find out where you'll be shooting from.</p>

<p>Rob, I'm aware of that question I posted from a previous day. Thanks.<br /><br />Ed, I may just do that. So the lens I have now is more so built for landscapes and other indoor portraiture? I'm curious because I was just recently told two seperate thing's. That is can work and that it doesn't?<br /><br />Robin, thanks kindly for your response!</p>

<p>Anne, I won't comment on the quality of the specific lenses since I have too little experience with Canon gear, but just two more generic tips:</p>

<ul>

<li>Learn about exposure, how ISO, aperture and shutterspeed are related. If you understand that, you will understand why Rob answered this Tamron lens is not a great choice - it may work (see 2nd point), but there are lenses that are more likely to do well. Next to that, learning about exposure will help your photography in general.</li>

<li>Check if you can enter the room before your actual shoot, and check with your camera if you can reach ~1/250s shutterspeeds with your lens (which should be more or less your 'target'-speeds, I think), without using flash. If you cannot reach this shutterspeed, you have to choose: either a lens with a wider aperture, or using flash. And frankly, the pop-up flash is not going to be powerful enough probably if the studio is somewhat large (if there are mirrors, it's going to be useless too), so you may in fact need a flashgun instead.</li>

</ul>

<p>85 f1.8 is excellent for use on the Rebel. I've have used just that combo. It is equivalent to the 135/2 on the full frame.</p>

<p>I think you should not try and use flash as it will be pretty useless (and distracting to the dancers). Set your ISO to 1600 and set the aperture of the 85/1.8 at f1.8 or f2 and shoot away. If it is brighter and speeds are OK (1/250 or higher) you can either stop the lens down to f2.8 or you can adjust ISO to 800. Make sure you are focussing on what you want.</p>

<p>[[Rob, I'm aware of that question I posted from a previous day. Thanks.]]</p>

<p>The lens has the same aperture range, just a different focal length. You'll have the same limitation as you have with the 18-55mm, just with a different field of view. The answers given in your previous thread are basically the same for this question. If you can't use a flash you should look at lenses with larger apertures in order to gather more light and thus increase your shutter speed. </p>

<p>[[You might want a monopod to lessen camera shake]]<br>

If you need a monopod to shoot moving dancers then either you're trying to blur them for artistic purposes or you have already lost the battle. </p>

<p>If it is a gym, check to see if they have installed strobes and if you can rent (I assume you don't have them) a wireless controller that will trigger them and if you can get permission. Lots of gyms now have them up in the 4 corners of the gym for taking sports images.<br>

But since you brought up shoot Dance, I do have another question of the group. My daughter belongs to a Ballet Company. Even though I have shot sports photography for over 40 years I find it to be very difficult to get good still images or videos in the performance venues like theaters etc. because of low light, need to have a pretty fast shutter to catch motion, as well as the color gels off the spotlights and on the backdrop make the dancers glow and the background pulse. I have tried to get better by using manual focus, as much depth of field as possible by stopping the lens down, as fast an ISO possible without getting too much noise, fast prime lenses, and custom white balance. They are better but still not what I want.</p>

<p>@wouter - most dance groups do not allow flash photography because it startles the performers. Professional set up strobes in the ceilings are usually OK.</p>

<p>A lot depends on how close you can get. If you can get very close, like front row close, you could probably use a 50mm f/1.8. This lens has the advantage of being quite inexpensive compared to pretty much every other option you might consider. You can get one for about $100.</p>

<p>As you move farther from the dancing, the necessary lenses become progressively larger and more expensive: The 85mm f/1.8 and 100mm f/2, both excellent and reasonably priced; the 135mm f/2, much more expensive; the 200mm f/2, much much more expensive.</p>

<p>If it's fairly bright you might be able to get by with something f/2.8. That allows you to use a fast zoom, like a 70-200mm f/2.8. But these are large, expensive lenses.</p>

<p>If you need a faster lens, renting one is a good solution. If you live in Southern California, Sammy's camera has a good rental program. There are online choices as well.</p>

<p>You could ask if you can photograph a dress rehearsal. This would allow you to move around the room during the performance, etc. It also gives you more than one chance to get the pictures.</p>

<p>@Alan - Thank you but I have done that as well. Other than having more freedom it doesn’t solve the issues I face regarding light, color, focus etc. Honestly I've never found a more perfect storm of conditions. Being able to use a strobe would help a lot but that isn't available during a dress rehearsal. I have been able to shoot at the studios where there are no issues around light (I can stage and use remote flash as well as reflectors, etc) where my biggest problem is being able to get wide enough coverage as the studio floors are usually rectangular in shape with me shooting from the short side. </p>

<p>Got to say, Ed I have been photographing dance such as you describe for some time with great success using the 5dII and lenses 85-280mm (200 + 1.4X) all f2.8 or faster, with no problems. 3200 or 6400 does it and occasionally underexposing at 280 @f4 at 6400. I adjust for white balance manually and meter on manual too occasionally checking with the spot meter. I suggest you might want to step back and go to the balcony and shoot from there with a longer lens. The Sigma 120-300mm would be a good choice. I find the distance makes for the best compositions (although of course not always). I use the camera on AI servo. I don't shoot video</p>

<p>The OP's camera has a maximum 3200 ISO, if I recall correctly. Most stage lighting is brighter than you might think and you can shoot a test close, then manually set the camera for your more distant shots so the meter won't be fooled. You can get away with slower lenses like a 100-400.<br>

A dance program in a gym. That's not likely to provide as decent lighting as on a stage. In gyms I want f2.8 or faster available to me.</p><div></div>

<p>The Rebel XT has a maximum ISO of 1600. </p>

<p>& at iso1600, it's pretty miserable... far worse than a 5D2 at iso6400 (In my somewhat limited experience w/ the XT). I would also counsel an 85/1.8 USM. Not only is the fast aperture going to be important for it's effect on shutter speed, but it will also significantly improve the camera's AF ability, which can be somewhat hit or miss in that kind of lighting. </p>

<p>Picking a USM/HSM lens for this is also going to make actually getting moving dancers in focus far more probable than w/ the lensthe OP currently has. The lens she currently has is probably one of the worst I can imagine trying to use in this role.</p>

<p>In DPP or Lightroom the noise at 1600 from XT cleans up fine (when shooting RAW). </p>

<blockquote>

<p>“So the lens I have now is more so built for landscapes and other indoor portraiture? I'm curious because I was just recently told two seperate thing's. That is can work and that it doesn't?”</p>

</blockquote>

<p><strong><em> </em></strong><br>

If you are not allowed to use Flash for this shoot, then the TWO lens characteristics in which we need to be interested are:</p>

<p><strong>Focal Length</strong> – determines how far away or how close we can be to make the particular shot. <br>

<strong>Fastest Aperture</strong> - determines the fastest Shutter Speed, in consideration of the camera’s highest ISO.</p>

<p>The Tamron Lens might have a suitable Focal Length compass for the shoot – BUT - the MAIN reason that you are being advised that the Tamron AF Aspherical 28-80mm f/3.5-5.6 is NOT suitable for this shooting scenario, is <strong>because the lens’s fastest aperture is TOO SLOW (i.e. not big enough)</strong>.</p>

 

<ol>

<li>The Tamron Lens’s Maximum ranges from F/3.5 (at 28mm) to F/5.6 (at about 50mm).</li>

<li>Your camera has a maximum ISO of ISO1600.</li>

<li>The other fact is – typically, Gyms have low light levels.</li>

</ol>

<p>Combining these three facts – from the experience of shooting in various Gyms, if you used that lens on your camera, a <strong><em>reasonable guess</em></strong> at the shooting specs would be:<br>

F/5.6 @ 1/30s @ ISO1600 ±2 stops.</p>

<p>The salient point is - that shutter speed range: 1/8s to 1/125s is not a fast enough to arrest the Subject Motion, of typical “Dance”.</p>

<p>***</p>

<p>The determination of how much light you will actually have, could be made by reconnoitre of the venue.<br>

At that reconnoitre you’d be advised to estimate where you might be allowed to stand and/or roam for the shoot, and that will allow you to better determine what Focal Length lens, would be most suitable for the job.</p>

<p>WW</p>

 

<p>85/1.8 is a good all rounder, but you need to zoom with your feet a bit to get the range right. </p>

<p>About shutter speeds and use of a monopod: it depends on the style of dance. If they are moving fast all the time then you do need a fast speed (say 1/250 seconds) and then camera shake is insignificant. But I have found that for some styles of dance, characterized by slower movements or even stillness, much slower shutter speeds can still give good pictures. And if the venue is not brightly lit, you may not have a choice; a slow shutter speed may be the only way to let in enough light.</p>

<p>So a monopod could still be useful in my view, especially with a lens that does not have image stabilization. You're not likely to change position a great deal - the event is to watch the dancers dancing, not the photographer - so it won't get in the way to have one.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>In DPP or Lightroom the noise at 1600 from XT cleans up fine (when shooting RAW).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I'll have to take your word for it ;) , my use of the XT predated my use of LR, and, at the time, DPP was pretty miserable at NR. DPP's current NR is at least competent, and of course LR is even better. But if the OP is still using the ver of DPP that came with her camera, ISO1600 is an 'emergency only' setting (IMO). And of course that assumes whe is shooting RAW. At the time, my general impression was that ISO1600 film produced imagery pretty on par w/ what the XT made at ISO1600.</p>

 

<p>Yep, my memory failed me. I had an XTi and I checked my archived files. 1600 ISO. But I had very good results with that camera in low light situations, even using 1600 ISO, but for fairly static subjects.<br /> You probably don't need any more "spend more money" advice, but a used 1D-series camera will also be a help. Shutter response time is a factor in all shooting of movement. As much as I love carrying a Rebel series on trips because of the weight, nothing beats the pro-level bodies when you need instant response.<br /> <br /><br /></p>