My Rolleicord Shutter Fires at One Speed Only

<p>I bought another Rolleicord II (my old one performs very well, but the focus screen is not so good) basically to get it's focus screen and swap into the beater camera . However, the new Rolleicord is in such wonderful condition that I'm thinking of just keeping it and selling the beater. The only problem is that the shutter fires at just one speed. The seller mentioned this, but I figured it was maybe sticky blades. After unscrewing the elements to flush things w/ lighter fluid, I discovered that the shutter blades were covered w/ a strange, thin, darkish fluid. It wasn't the type of oil that you usually see on the blades. I flushed everything as good as I could w/ the shutter on the camera, and still no dice. The speed adjustment arm moves freely (a little too freely), but it feels connected. It gets that resistance when you move it from 1/250 to 1/500 like it should, but no matter where it's placed it fires the same. I emailed Paul Ebel, but he said it might need a shutter part and could run $200. That's too much to put into it, so I am trying to figure it out myself. Any ideas?</p>

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<p>After unscrewing the elements to flush things w/ lighter fluid, I discovered that the shutter blades were covered w/ a strange, thin, darkish fluid.</p>

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<p>1. Based on your description the camera has sat in high temperature and baked the grease on so that it will have to be cut off or soaked in solvent for 3 to 5 days to get it softened up enough to clean off.<br>

2. You did yourself an injustice by putting lighter fluid on it. You would accomplish more re wetting it with lighter fluid and throwing a lit match on it.<br>

3. <strong>DO NOT</strong> attempt to disassemble the shutter without a service manual for the shutter. Some makes such as Synchro Compur fit a base shutter into many cameras so the manual may not match your application exactly.</p>

<p>I will not service a shutter that has been treated with lighter fluid for less than $500.00.<br>

Basic shutter operation:<br>

A. Cocking the shutter locks the main cocking spring in a compressed state.<br>

B. Tripping the shutter release moves a lockout that allows a weak spring to flip the shutter blades open. A properly operating shutter requires less than 1 ounce of pressure to accomplish this and occurs in 30 milliseconds or less.<br>

C. When the shutter blades reach full open the lockout on the main cocking spring is released and it forces the shutter blades closed which is around 1/200 to 1/250 second depending on the shutter. Slower speeds are obtained by delay gearing being set by spring action dependent on position of the speed selector dial. On a correctly working shutter the delay gearing retards the closing of the shutter blades up to 1 second.<br>

D. The speed faster than the cocking spring max speed is accomplished by compressing a booster spring that throws the shutter blades closed faster than the cocking spring only. This speed is 1/400 to 1/500 second depending on the shutter make.</p>

<p>A speed increase above 1/60 to 1/100 is not detectable by eye for the vast majority of trained technicians let alone the average user.</p>

<p>Shell out the $$$ to get it properly serviced, strip it of parts, or frustrate yourself servicing it yourself. Working without a service manual with no experience is akin to climbing the face of Half Dome with only a small rope attached at the top as an aid.</p>

<p>Oh please! What a ridiculous comment. Set the camera on fire because it has oil on the shutter blades and I cleaned and flushed the shutter w/ lighter fluid? You mean like I and everyone else has done for decades? What nonsense. Pay $200 plus shipping both ways to fix an old camera that's worth, tops, $150 to $200 IF it's working properly, and add that to the money it took to buy it to begin with? Brilliant. Thanks for nothing. This is the type of comment that people complain about. It drives people away from this site. It won't drive me away, but it serves no purpose whatsoever. Contribute something that makes sense and is relevant to the question, or don't. It's an old camera w/ a problem. It's not open heart surgery. Just an old camera w/ a shutter that doesn't work correctly. Big deal. </p>

<p>First, what about the shutter in the first Rolleicord? Why not put it into this much nicer body and be done with it? Then send the bad one off to Ebel or such and get an estimate.</p>

<p>Second, I would trust Ebel to know what the potential problems could be with a shutter. My limited experience says that the timing pin may have come off of the escapement, although how this could happen I do not know. Anyway, either it is a simple thing with, say, the timing ring not engaging, or something very bad happened.</p>

<p>Search around and you'll find photos of the Compur and Compur Rapid shutter parts. Study them and study what you actually have inside yours, see what pin isn't in the right place, etc. Remove the shutter from the body and plan on a few days of soaking in naphtha. Be patient. I went through two weeks of soakings and flushings on a Synchro-Compur and it finally came back and is still going fine two years later. Keep changing the fluid.</p>

<p>You can get a Compur Rapid down to just the aperture blades still in the body; I'd suggest not removing them unless you are very steady and very patient. There is a ring buried inside the shutter, around the inner opening for the lens, that rotates to cause the blades to open and close. I've had to go inside to get this ring out and be able to clean the crud out of its track. And be gentle with the escapement when it is out of the shutter body. Make notes of shutter blade orientations and locations, etc.</p>

<p>Plan on destroying the shutter, so unless you can afford to lose it, don't do it.</p>

<p>Naphtha provided to Ronson by the Shell Oil company MSDS:<br>

http://secure.cooperbooth.com/datasheets/160606.pdf</p>

<p>better, less toxic solvents are easy to come by. <br>

Example: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/CRC9/05103/N0439.oap?ck=Search_N0439_-1_-1&pt=N0439&ppt=C0090<br>

Some shutters will be damaged or destroyed by naphtha type solvents.</p>

<p>Steve:<br>

I was in similar situation a year ago when I got a great looking Rolleicord V with bad shutter. After much deliberation I have send it to Krikor Maralian at Krimar Photo Shop for a repair. The repair was $230 (I was not happy with myself for spending more then I have paid for the camera) but now it works flawlessly, it's a joy to use and it takes beautiful photographs. Consider having yours repaired by a professional - you won't regret it.</p>

<p>"Thanks for nothing. This is the type of comment that people complain about. It drives people away from this site. It won't drive me away, but it serves no purpose whatsoever. Contribute something that makes sense and is relevant to the question, or don't."</p>

<p>I know the advise you've received sounds harsh, but Chas Monday knows of what he speaks (writes). That is EXACTLY why many people come here looking for advise.</p>

<p>Ebell isn't the one-and-only decent repariman out there, so shop around. If nothing else it will give you some perspective.</p>

<p>Sometimes one needs to invest more than the value of hte end product to get a camera that works properly. Same goes in many other elecrtical/electronic/mechanical/automotive/aviation collectibles.</p>

<p>p.s. Those 00 size shutters are a real PIA to work on unless you have good dexterity, patience, and a manual.</p>

<p >This whole amateur tinkerer vs professional repairer thing is something of a minefield. I can well understand professionals baulking at the idea of flushing shutters with lighter fluid or whatever. However with relatively lower value kit like an early Rolleicord, or a decent folder say an Isolette with a Solinar lens, a collector / user has a real dilemma, get it done professionally at a cost of perhaps much more than the camera's actually worth, or try to do it him / herself. I've very gradually, and with many false starts and disasters, found out how to do a limited range of repairs, and learnt a few tricks which sometimes work. Its probably better to try to free up a stuck shutter by introducing lighter fluid, than to try to remove and dismantle it with predictably fatal results.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >For example I’ve got an MPP Microcord which had a sticking shutter. It seemed to be the operating lever which was sticking, rather than the mechanism or blades, so I tried to free it up by running a few drops of lighter fluid up the lever. Success! Except that as soon as it dried out, it started sticking again. Did it need some kind of lubrication? Well I next moistened a strip of newspaper with WD40 (yes!) and tried to introduce it up into the slot where the lever ran. After a couple of attempts the lever started to move freely, and its been fine ever since.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Another instance, I've got a Rollecord 2 which occasionally gums up. I unscrew both front and rear lenses, and put a little lighter fluid on a cotton bud (Q tip) and rub it on the shutter blades, then dry them off with a clean cotton bud, operating the shutter and repeating the process until it works freely.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Finally I've revived the slow speeds on two nice folding cameras by running a little lighter fluid up the cocking lever and into the mechanism.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >There have of course been failures which I won't go into, not fortunately with anything of any great value. I'm lucky enough to have a good repairer living locally, and I've always entrusted him with the higher end stuff.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >What I'm trying to say is that all sides should try to understand where each is coming from, and professional repairers should realise that amateurs will reasonably try to fix their own equipment, seeking advice from this site and others where necessary, and learning by trial and error. Whilst amateurs should understand that some of the methods they of necessity adopt might be considered crude and potentially damaging by those who have the knowledge, skill and equipment to do it properly.</p>

<p>Thanks to most everyone for the help. I took the shutter off the camera and brought it w/ me downtown to a watch repair place. He put it in his ultrasonic cleaner machine, a whole lot of crud came out of it, and it freed it up nicely. I relubed the areas that needed it w/ watch oil (he gave me a deal on some), and it's working fine now. Paul Ebel agreed that it wasn't cost effective to fix one of these. He also said that it took about the same amount of time, or less, to recondition a shutter on a $2000 2.8F, and that it would be a lot cheaper if I pulled the shutter out and just sent that. He thought flushing it w/ lighter fluid was just fine. Paul is a straight up guy and does great work. I also would recommend Mark Hansen at Classic Camera. There's reviews on the forum here on both gentlemen. For those like me who like to give it a go themselves, here's some very good info. Rick Oleson gives a wonderfully clear and detailed look at it.</p>

<p>http://shutter-cla.blogspot.com/</p>

<p>Nice fix.</p>

<p><strong>W</strong>ater<strong> D</strong>ispersant #40 contains some solvents and a light weight oil. It will dry out and leave a residue behind. Repeated applications build up into an undesirable sticky residue. Reported to be good for cleaning of metal parts with a rag. I have not tried it for cleaning purposes.</p>

<p>3in1 oil is vegetable based oil that will dry out and leave a sticky residue behind therefore it is not desirable for camera repair.</p>

<p>White lithium grease works well anywhere a grease is called for in camera repair manuals.<br /> Extra fine powdered graphite http://www.agscompany.com/lubricants/homehardware/183 works well on shutter and aperture blades. Extreme care should be exercised when applying to blades in a shutter. Support from the back if possible.<br /> TriFlow http://www.triflowlubricants.com/Tri-Flow_Superior_Drip_Lubricant.html is a very good oil for shutter lubrication as are watch oil and gun oil. Only a thin sheen is all that is needed. Too much oil or grease acts like glue.<br /> Exposures off and you question your shutter speeds?<br /> See: http://www.photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/0044cW?start=10<br /> Compur Shutter service manual:<br /> http://www.camerabooks.com/Products/Compur-Shutters-Repair-Manual--c-1968--incl-Synchro-Compur-Shutters__R1-90018Repair-spc-Compur-spc-Shutter.aspx<br /> some searching may produce an online download.<br /> Attached is a composite 96dpi sample scan reduced to fit in line on this site of some of the pages and the lubrication schedule for the 00 MXV used in the Rolleicord V series camera.<br /> No description of lubricant types listed other than Compurs listed.</p><div></div>

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<p>Another instance, I've got a Rollecord 2 which occasionally gums up. I unscrew both front and rear lenses, and put a little lighter fluid on a cotton bud (Q tip) and rub it on the shutter blades, then dry them off with a clean cotton bud, operating the shutter and repeating the process until it works freely.</p>

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<p><br /><br /><br /><br />I have done that with a Rolleiflex and a couple of other cameras and it works fine.</p>

<p>There is also nothing wrong with using the flushing out method but it is likely to jam up once dried out fully unless you re-lubricate it in all the right places.</p>

<p>... but some of the "right places" needing lubricant require disassembly of the shutter to access. Often a partial relubrication seems to work for some people. Not a problem as long as one realizes that it may work okay for a while, then stop working again.</p>

<p>Just beware the tiny springs that sometime are difficult to remember where they belong!</p>