Canon 7D or 5D?

<p>My advice is not to waste your money on an expensive Canon body. Tray to find a Canon EOS 40D or failing that, one of the "Rebel" bodies and a Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4 - 5.6 IS USM lens. Set the camera to ISO 400 and on Aperture Priority at f/8 and learn how to take pictures. The old addage "f/8 and be there" still holds true. Experiment by changing the Aperture between f/4 and f/11, look at the results, take lots of picture and have fun doing it. It takes years to take well composed, colourful, sharp images. Best regards Stephen</p>

 

<p>Why are there ALWAYS debates about whether to get the 5D or 7D? I don't understand it, these are 2 completely different cameras for 2 completely different types of photography. Once you figure out what type of photographer you are this should be pretty cut and dry.</p>

<p>

<p dir="ltr">I wonder where's the OP.</p>

<p dir="ltr"> </p>

<p dir="ltr"> </p>

<p dir="ltr">Happy shooting,</p>

<p dir="ltr">Yakim.</p>

 

<p dir="ltr"> </p>

</p>

 

<p><em><strong>. . . where's the OP. . . </strong></em><br>

Dunno? I wouldn't wana be holding my breath for an answer to my question . . . Happy shooting back at ya. WW </p>

<p>One of the addages you will see in any of these discussions is "There will always be another new camera, but your lens you will keep for years". With that in mind part of your decision about Which One, should consider if you have any lens you are planning to use on this new camera or which lens you would want to use if you are going to buy new ones. Over time it's very likely you'll spend a lot more on good lens, to really utilize the resolving power of either camara , than you will on one camera.<br>

It really is about what you are going to want to do with it and the quality of the results you want to get. A new camera won't make you a better shooter, but it could give you some new tools to help you along the way. If you are just getting into all this, take a good look at the real list of equipment you are going to want to do the kind of shooting you are interested in. Maybe the dollars will make a whole lot more sense.</p>

<p><em><strong>>>> . . . where's the OP. . . </strong></em><br /><em>>Dunno? I wouldn't wana be holding my breath for an answer to my question . . . Happy shooting back at ya. WW</em></p>

<p>Exactly. All of you are talking to yourselves about the Most Common question of 4Q2009 in Canon forum. Weird question to begin with: old tech 5D or NEW tech 7D? (7D wins)</p>

<p>Corbie's all adios on us. "Thanks for all the fish!"</p>

I own both the 5DMkII and the 7D. I just love the capability of going both extreme wide and and medium telephoto by carrying both camera bodies with me. Just a few zoom lenses (like the 16-35, 28-70, and 70-200) afford a tremendous versatility in shot selection. The 7D is a clear winner for action photography at about twice the fps as the 5DMkII and is $1000 less than the 5DMkII. The 5DMkII is a clear winner for wide angle photography and high ISO images. If I'm going to carry just one body, it is usually the 7D because I tend to favor telephoto shots. BTW, this thread is both interesting and informative.

<p ><strong ><em >"The 7D is a clear winner for action photography at about twice the fps as the 5DMkII and is $1000 less than the 5DMkII. The 5DMkII is a clear winner for wide angle photography and high ISO images."</em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p >Yes. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Stated only a few days ago on the Wedding Forum by an astoundingly experienced Photographer (<a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=271274">Nadine Ohara - SF Bay Area/CA</a> ) were words to the effect that a 7D + 5DMkII would be a killer Sports / Wedding Kit.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >As a Generalist Kit for any working Pro, I agree, as I too favour a dual format kit, and have made many detailed comments on same.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >*** </p>

<p > </p>

<p ><strong ><em >“</em></strong><strong ><em >Just a few zoom lenses (like the 16-35, 28-70, and 70-200) afford a tremendous versatility in shot selection.”</em></strong></p>

<p ><strong ><em > </em></strong></p>

<p >With a dual format kit (APS-C and135 format cameras) the 28 to70 – (or 24 to70) is redundant apropos FoV. And the best, minimalist working set of primes is 24, 50 and 135.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >***</p>

<p > </p>

<p ><strong ><em >"BTW, this thread is both interesting and informative."</em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p >Yes. I agree again. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >But not he who has seemingly left the precinct - call me old fashioned but manners are still "in vogue" in our house – but one should not jump to conclusions, there might be good reason, although this occurrence of posting a thin question and then disappearing does happen often - and thus one is rather more cynical, than not – hence my previous comment.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW </p>

<p > </p>

 

<p>7d and "L" lenses. Though it really is the photographer and not the camera</p>

<p>Two thoughts:</p>

<p>1 - You can't put the EF-S 10-22 on a 5D</p>

<p>2 - I very seldom have any use for the huge volume of pixels my 40D produces. The extra that a 7D or 5D generates would do little beisdes add to my already troublesome data management issues.</p>

<p>I have spent so many hours looking at reviews trying to decide between the 5dmk2 or the 7d I have lost count. You are not going to get people who have bought a 5dmk2 and view images at 200% to admit the 7d is close in terms of IQ. For every review or opinion that says the difference between the two is like night and day, you will find that there are equally as many that say the opposite. The only way is to try it for yourself. This is what I did, for me the difference in IQ is small, the 5d has better ISO, but only if I were using iso 6400 and above regularly and printing big would I buy it for that reason alone. Landscape are taken at low iso and on a tripod and unless your using the image for a billboard, I think that this opinion that the 7d is only for sports and the 5d is a must for landscapes is getting a little old. For studio I admit I haven't done a lot of studio work but from what I know ISO is not that big an issue here because you're controlling the environment with artificial lighting. Weddings, yes you need good noise control in the church, but if the 5d has trouble focusing in low light all the noise control in the world won't help. For me the 7d performs well enough up to ISO 3200 and you can get away with 6400 if you use noise ninja, but with a fast lens shooting at 6400 shouldn't be a regular thing. I feel Canon rushed the 5dmk2, the Nikon d700 frightened them, some people can keep excusing the 5dmk2's lack of AF control or all the other things that are out of date on a camera that costs £2000 in todays market. But the fact is the 7d is the camera the 5dmk2 should have been.<br />So for me I would buy the 5dmk2 if I had a 16-35 2.8 lens otherwise you've wasted £1200 if you don't put that on anything other then a FF camera, if getting extreme shallow DOF shots is your thing ( a 5dmk2 would allow you to stop a lens down a bit and get a sharper image and still get a shallow DOF, and not use the lens wide open)<br />If I bought a 5d I would have to get a 300mm 2.8 IS to make up for what I would loose compared with a 70-200mm 2.8 IS and a 7d, thats a lot of money and a lot of glass to carry around. On the wide angle side of things I would be happy using a sigma 10-20 on a 7d.<br />When the 7d first came out and the prices were close to the 5dmk2 it was a hard decision between the two, that in it's self shows how good the 7d is that people found it hard to decide between a APS-C camera and a FF camera that were close in price. Now there is a difference of £600 it's made the decision easier to make<br />So I came to the conclusion that the 5dmk2 is a camera for specific needs, like a tilt and shift lens, it's worth every penny if you need what it offers, but other than that think carefully before choosing it over the 7d.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>The 5DMkII is a clear winner for wide angle photography and high ISO images. If I'm going to carry just one body, it is usually the 7D because I tend to favor telephoto shots.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Do you know how the 5DMKII + 1.4x teleconverter compares against the 7D without TC? Both systems offer about the same FOV. Does the better high ISO performance of the 5DMkII make up the one f-stop lost due to the TC? How about sharpness? The 5DMkII has larger pixels and is, therefore, less demanding regarding lens resolution. How does a TC fit within this equation?</p>

<p>A TC on a 7d with a 70-200 will give you approximately 448mm.<br />A TC on a 5d with a 70-200 will give you approximately 280mm<br />Thats with a 1.4x TC and the 7d has a 1.6x crop factor.<br />200 x 1.6= 320<br />320 x 1.4=448<br />That's the way I worked it out and I think thats how it works.<br>

I know that dosen't answer your question exactly but I'm just pointing out how much you will loose with the crop factor</p>

<p>Just a couple of points:<br>

The OP may have literally been scared off by the complexity and, in some cases, intensity of some of the responses.<br>

I'm immensely grateful for William Bray's contribution. I thought he injected some pragmatic common sense into the debate.<br>

I've been having a similar debate myself as a long time 40D user. I'd always assumed I would just go FF as it was where the default 35mm user would ultimately head. I have the 17-40 and find it too tight on 1.6 crop. I've always held off buying the 10-22 as it wouldn't be usable on FF. I'm beginning to wonder whether the 7D heralds a new way forward in bodies and that FF may become the niche.<br>

For now, I've decided to hold on to my 40D as the 7D doesn't take me anywhere I can't go already. Hopefully a 10-22 will hold its value if I eventually go FF for the landscape/portrait work that interests me as an amateur. I don't go above ISO 400 and I do use flash or a tripod when appropriate.<br>

Thank you William!</p>

<p>It'll be interesting to see what the eventual 5D3 (or whatever) looks like. Hopefully the AF will be smarter and the pricing, here in the UK at least a little sharper. Weatherproofing is certainly an issue though I guess they'll continue to differentiate the 1 series using that as part of the mix.<br>

Perhaps Canon have a strategic problem on their hands here? <br>

Jim</p>

<p>Thanks Jim it's difficult to give you're opinions here and not upset anyone and start a war, when talking about cameras the same principle applies when talking about someones children, you can't say anything bad with out upsetting them and it's unusual they'll admit you're right.<br>

I don't think Canon are going to give us a 5dmk3 that does everything. Sometimes we forget that being a great camera and lens manufacturer comes 2nd to being great business people, and a 5dmk3 with everything is bad business. I hope I'm wrong.<br>

What I can't get over is how close the IQ is between the 7d and 5d. Which makes me wonder whats in the 7d thats not in the 5d, because since I started with DSLR's I was led to believe a FF camera was the holy grail of photography, and I always intended to get one. Perhaps I expect too much but I thought the 5dmk2 would put up more of a fight.<br>

Jim about what you said about the canon 10-20 optically it's good, but I have to say the build quality is poor for the money they cost, I returned mine because of that, and that is my biggest issue with EFS lenses. Take a look at the sigma, or the tokina, lenses. The tokina 11-16 and 12-24 have had good reviews. And I haven't heard a bad thing about the sigma 10-20, I 've only heard that it didn't perform that well on a 30D, but that won't matter to you.<br>

As Yakim say's Happy Shooting</p>

<p>I was reading Bob's review of the 10-22 and had found it at £460 which still seems expensive for what it is and with no lens hood etc.<br>

The 5d2 just doesn't justify the premium here in the UK for me, and my purposes. Oddly, since my original post, I'd been reflecting on my blind sign up to just that phrase "holy grail".<br>

My 40D is excellent but the 17-40 is tight. I'll probably hire a 10-22 over the Christmas break to have a look/feel in case I stay with crop cameras into the longer term.</p>

<p>Get 7D with 24 to 105L if you can affor dit if nit just get kit lens and please shoot, shoot and then shoot some more before you buy another lens.</p>

<p >Just about a half a year ago I was in exactly the same situation as Corbie Gomez.</p>

<p >I am by no means an excellent photographer, I would not even call myself a photographer.</p>

<p >I too had heaps of questions, read lots of comparisons between different makes, models etc. until my head spun.</p>

<p >My daughter has a Canon 5D. She is studying photography. She loves her camera. (I love it too!) </p>

<p >But:</p>

<p >I was 'upgrading’ from a fully manual, no battery required very old Nikon FM2 to DSLR.</p>

<p >A huge step!</p>

<p >I found the following (remember, I am a beginner):</p>

<p >- Most of all the technical stuff became irrelevant.</p>

<p >- All mid to high end DSLR from most manufacturers are very good/excellent.</p>

<p >- Most people do not print to larger than A4 size.</p>

<p >- Beginners can not tell the difference from one print to another whether taken with a Canon 5D, 7D, 40D, or a 50D, especially when done by a Pro lab (a good lab is important too).</p>

<p >- Most photographers end up with more than one camera anyhow, some even going back to film again! </p>

<p >- The best lens/lenses that are interchangeable between models are one of the best assets and more important than the first model of camera you buy. But stick with one make.</p>

<p >- Spend big on really good lenses. And don’t forget prime lenses.</p>

<p >- My daughter is a bigger girl than I and she has larger hands.</p>

<p >- Although I really liked the Canon 5D, it did not feel right in my small hands and handholding it for a length of time was uncomfortable. Even mounting it on the tripod was a hassle for me. With a large lens on it, it is a heavy camera.</p>

<p >- What I ended up buying:</p>

<p >- I bought the Canon 50D with the kit lens and </p>

<p > </p>

<p ><strong>I am doing what Sergio Agramonte suggested:</strong></p>

<p ><strong>Shoot, shoot, shoot, and then shoot some more.</strong></p>

<p ><strong></strong></p>

<p >- If the 40D is cheaper, buy the 40D.</p>

<p >- What I dislike about the 50D:</p>

<p >- I really hate the pop-up flash. That was the first thing I disabled.</p>

<p >- Coming from fully manual, I don’t use/need the basic zone modes, but they come with all consumer cameras.</p>

<p >- Buy a good separate instruction manual.</p>

<p >There is much to learn in order to take full advantage of all the features the 50D, or any other DSLR for that matter, offer.</p>

<p >- If I may recommend a (Canon) manual, it would be the following:</p>

<p >“David Busch’s Canon EOS 50D”. </p>

<p >Stick with one brand, though, be it Nikon or Canon, or anything else.</p>

<p ><strong>Just take the plunge and do not fret too much about the differences. They are all 'good'.</strong></p>

<p ><strong>Buy what feels right in your hands.</strong></p>

<p ><strong>Happy shooting.</strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p>Oh, one more thing: I took the brand name strap off and bought a really good non-slip generic one, including a wrist strap, like I did with my old camera years ago. <br>

The camera is more important to me than being a billboard for a manufacturer, or to let others know from miles away what kind of camera I have. For a while I missed the full frame sensor of the 5D, but one gets used to it and if you haven't known full frame before you'll adjust your way of thinking.</p>

<p>jim, william: the reason i chose canon when buying my first dslr was the 10-22. i've not been disappointed. it's really fine.</p>

<p>personally, i'm not concerned about canon obsoleting aps-c so i don't mind buying ef-s lenses</p>

<p>A better late than never response:<br>

Touch my 5DMkII and die. I've been considering a 7D for a second camera, one to use for wildlife when I unholster my 500 and 1.4 magnifier. It would give me a bit more reach. But I've been shooting lately a lot with the 16-35L, and anything other than full frame would render it useless.<br>

But I owned the 5D first edition and it was the best camera I'd ever owned until the Mark II. Of course you will shoot stuff for a desktop printer for awhile, but once you hit that shot and want a really big print -- not something you have to stand six feet from to appreciate the image, that 21 mp really comes in handy.<br>

As for the slow AF, it's not really that slow. I've shot some great movement with my 100-400 with a 1.4 converter. It did just fine. Yes, I fired off some 300 shots over the course of four hours, but about half of them were sharp, crisp and noiseless, even though I shoot my normal shots at 3200 ISO.<br>

I think the question is how much can you afford and how badly do you want it. I went on and bought that 500L, F4 and my credit score dropped 50 points, really, ranking me over-extended. It's the best damage I've ever done to myself.<br>

Hopefully I can attach a shot I did of the moon just after I bought that damned thing.</p>

<p>A better late than never response:<br>

Touch my 5DMkII and die. I've been considering a 7D for a second camera, one to use for wildlife when I unholster my 500 and 1.4 magnifier. It would give me a bit more reach. But I've been shooting lately a lot with the 16-35L, and anything other than full frame would render it useless.<br>

But I owned the 5D first edition and it was the best camera I'd ever owned until the Mark II. Of course you will shoot stuff for a desktop printer for awhile, but once you hit that shot and want a really big print -- not something you have to stand six feet from to appreciate the image, that 21 mp really comes in handy.<br>

As for the slow AF, it's not really that slow. I've shot some great movement with my 100-400 with a 1.4 converter. It did just fine. Yes, I fired off some 300 shots over the course of four hours, but about half of them were sharp, crisp and noiseless, even though I shoot my normal shots at 3200 ISO.<br>

I think the question is how much can you afford and how badly do you want it. I went on and bought that 500L, F4 and my credit score dropped 50 points, really, ranking me over-extended. It's the best damage I've ever done to myself.<br>

Hopefully I can attach a shot I did of the moon just after I bought that damned thing.</p><div></div>

<p>Great thread! I just got a 7D after renting it to try it and I love it! It's so much easier to use than our 5D2 which my boyfriend prefers. I like shooting wildlife and I was never really satisfied with most of my images before, but now I am. </p>