Canon 7D or 5D?

[JDMvW]

<p>And how. "Ergonomics" is in the habits of the user, and only a Nikon-imprinted zombie would find the D700 to be better. Maybe a clone of Ashton Kutcher? The other points are at least arguable. So much for "Fact"</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Corbie, you don't tell us how you use your camera, so it's hard to tell you which way to go. In general, full frame will be better for scenics, archetecture, portratis and general photography. Crop-sensor cameras, like the 1.6-crop 7D, are better for wildlife and sports. Beside the sensor, the 7D will burst at 8-fps, which gives it a further edge for sport and wildlife.</p>

<p>There's a lot of discussion about the 7D's AF. I own both a 5D MkII and the 7D and find neither's AF superior for birds and wildlife. I generally keep them both on single-point for those purposes. I switch to the 5D MkII for scenics and put the AF on all sensors.</p>

<p>The 7D's controls are a little more intuitive than the 5D2, but it's no big deal. Both have HD video.</p>

<p>You said 5D, not 5D MkII. If you mainly do scenics then that'd be a great option, but you might consider buying used. A new 5D will be immediately be hurt comparatively on resale and not have the latest features and the improved high-ISO performance of the 5D2, which is truly incredible.</p>

<p>I'm glad that I have both. Since I'm very heavily into bird and wildlife photography, if I could have only one it'd be the 7D. I'd have to invest in a wider L-series lens than my 24-150 f4L IS, but that'd be a pretty good trade off. I'd give up a bit of IQ, but only what you could see at 100% crop sizes. OTOH, the IQ of the 5D2 shown on a 46" HDTV screen is stunning and adictive.</p>

<p>Please jump back in the thread and tell us your reactions.</p>

[dcstep]

<p >Ben Goren said"</p>

 

<p>"*sigh*<br>

There is one, and only one, determining factor between the two cameras.<br>

How big will you print?"</p>

<p>That old line is getting a little out of date, IMHO. The question now is:<br>

"How big will you view?"<br>

Many of us now view our images on 46" and 52" HDTVs at 1080 resolution. It is complicated by factors such as viewing distance and setup, BUT you can see the differences. Comparing my best 5D2 images to my best G9 images is like going from 35mm slides to medium format with the ole projector. My 7D images are much, much closer to the 5D2, but there's a small gap, still.</p>

<p>Just a thought for the 21st century. "sigh"</p>

 

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>I vigorously tested the 5Dii and found its capabilities severely lacking compared to the Nikon.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Maybe you should post on the Nikon vs Canon Forum then.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>I'm a full time professional photographer</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> Where's your website?</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>the 7D still has a massive achillies heel in the form of a crop sensor</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I've got a photo in a full page glossy magazine ad that I took with a 10D. I work with a lot of sports shooters who use a crop sensor, in fact almost all of them. </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Can anybpdy seriously stand up and tell me a crop frame sensor is better than a full frame one, unless of course you're a wildlife shooter</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I can. Me and a lot of other sports shooters use the 1DMk3, and I know one top MMA shooter who uses two 40Ds.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>I've tested both systems vigorously and i'm being honest in my assessment.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> Who cares? The question is on the Canon Forum and was about comparing two Canons. If you can't answer the question, you should think about posting somewhere else.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>Objective testers, like DxOMark, don't concur with Mr. Williams' view about the Nikon/Canon differences.</p>

<p>For good reason, we have separate Nikon and Canon Forums. He obviously wandered a bit.</p>

[tdigi]

<p>David, I know many happy pros using a 5D2 and while the autofocus could be better, I do not think its that bad at all. Maybe its how I use it or that I don't know any better since I always used Canon and older Nikon cameras but I have gotten many great shots with it using AI servo on fast moving objects or using 1 shot in dark settings.</p>

<p>I am sure the D700 is a fine camera, I have heard great things about it but the 5D2 is also very nice, in fact its the best camera I have used so far. I personally do not care for the Nikon ergonomics and that is the only real difference between Canon and Nikon as far as I am concerned. Both are more then capable</p>

[luzhang]

<p>You do not even understand what the real question of this thread is. <br /> LOL. Mr. "Fact".</p>

[danielleetaylor]

<p>OK David Williams, I'll bite...</p>

<p><em>The AF of the 5Dii belongs in a museum and for all it's glories, the 7D still has a massive achillies heel in the form of a crop sensor.</em></p>

<p>I consider the crop sensor to be an advantage, and the 7D will out resolve the D700 at low to mid ISO. It's not until about ISO 3200 that the D700 shows any IQ advantage due to noise. Below that the 7D actually edges out the D700. As for the 5D2 AF, it's not as good as the 7D or D700. But it's better than what pros were using for the entire decade of the 1990's, and better than most of what was available in the 2000's. It will handle the vast majority of situations just fine.</p>

<p>Speaking of the 5D2, I'm sorry, but the 5D2 produces noticeably better large prints from high ISO shots. DxO pixel measurements do not tell the whole story. Visible noise in print is determined by how much you enlarge pixels, and 5D2 pixels are enlarged less for a given print size. The 5D2 retains more detail at high ISO than anything else out there, and makes the best high ISO prints. It, not the D700, is the high ISO champ. I wouldn't hesitate to go 5D2 if I regularly shot ISO 3200 and above.</p>

<p><em>Can anybpdy seriously stand up and tell me a crop frame sensor is better than a full frame one, unless of course you're a wildlife shooter.</em></p>

<p>I can. I hardly ever shoot above ISO 1600. The 7D out resolves the 12 MP FF sensors at those ISOs, makes my telephotos much more useful, and thanks to new lenses like the Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 loses nothing at the wide end for my work. All things being equal a FF sensor yields higher IQ, but Canon continues to hold a sensor technology edge which means the 7D holds its own against 12 MP FF. And that the 5D2 can match both the competition's high resolution >20 MP FF sensors and their high ISO 12 MP FF sensors.<br>

Oh yes: the 7D is $1700 while the D700 is $2400. That difference equals a pretty nice lens.</p>

[dcstep]

<p>David Williams said:<br>

"If you got to dxomark.com lets look at the 5Dii v D700: Every variable - color depth, low light senitivity, dynamic range, as well as overall sensor mark is better on the Nikon. Have a look Jeff if you don't believe me. Accept the facts."</p>

<p>This is a true statement, but the differences are fractional at best. If one's a 97 the other's a 96.5. They're both in the same order of magnitude and excellence. We don't need some Nikon-dweeb to come over here and tell us how to read charts.</p>

<p>There are Nikon people and Canon people and others in between. It make no sense to argue over two excellent camera systems on any basis other than preference of the user and how the camera will be used.</p>

<p>True</p>

[StuartMoxham]

<p>Personaly I don't think it will matter that much which DSLR you choose. They are all capable of great results in skilled hands. Your vision as a photographer will have much more impact on your photos than if you buy a 5DmkII or a 7D or even one of the rebels series. There have been excelent photos taken with pretty much every DSLR and SLR that has been made. Its what you do with the camera that really counts.</p>

[davebell]

<p>It is very simple in my eyes - do you want to shoot full frame or with a 1.6 cropped sensor? Nothing at all wrong with a 5D (original) - it is a brilliant camera capable of brilliant results. The MkII is of course better and I will be upgrading to them soon, but I will steer well clear of the 7D due to the crop factor which just doesn't suit my style. Also, the original 5D has plenty of pixels.... When I upgrade to the MkII I am going to have to upgrade my PC as well, given the larger files.</p>

[anders_carlsson]

<p>Interesting how this thread has evolved. Anyway, do you need the video feature? If not, how about getting a 50D or even a 40D and spend some more on better glass and some good software? The 7D will probably come down in price a little over the next few years and will be readily available whenever you want or need to upgrade. And if you get, say, a 17-40/4L (good value) or a 16-35/2.8L (pricey!) as your standard zoom -- if you want one -- you won't "waste" on crop lenses since they are designed for FF.</p>

[gurbally_seth]

<p>David Williams, Go read Thom Hogan (the Nikon man) and he will tell you why most people don't need FF. I used D300, D700 and then Canon 5D and now I also use 7D. It is a great all-round camera.</p>

[petrana_batik]

<blockquote>

<p><em>Interesting how this thread has evolved. Anyway, do you need the video feature? If not, how about getting a 50D or even a 40D and spend some more on better glass and some good software? The 7D will probably come down in price a little over the next few years and will be readily available whenever you want or need to upgrade. And if you get, say, a 17-40/4L (good value) or a 16-35/2.8L (pricey!) as your standard zoom -- if you want one -- you won't "waste" on crop lenses since they are designed for FF.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Finally, someone with more brains than gear fixation.<br>

<br /> Corbie, you're a newbie, accept the facts (pun <em>intended</em> ). Aim low, get good glass -- it will last you a lifetime, a good flash (and learn how to use it), and a good tripod. Now take time and effort to maximize your skill, and stop worrying about photosite size or MTF tables. Devote time, take workshops and learn how to compose and express your own point of view.</p>

[William Michael]

<p><strong><em>"Finally, someone with more brains than gear fixation. . . "</em></strong><br /><br />Well . . . <br />I am still waiting for the answers to my two simple questions :)<br>

I don't read anywhere that Corbie is worrying about photosite size or MTF tables. :)<br /><br />WW</p>

 

[petrana_batik]

<p>WW - You are exempted as well LOL.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>Thanks heaps :)<br />I hate it when my gear gets fixated.<br />WW</p>

<p> </p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>Just accept the obvious facts</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> No response to anything.<br>

<br /> It's called trolling.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Here's the original test of the D700 by super objective standards, well-established by someone with blinders on (<a href="http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0122e.html#gruff">link</a> ).</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[veteran]

<p>Most matrix has a large matrix. </p>

[veteran]

<p>Which is nice from a potty with honey. Two pots of honey. <br>

Winnie the Pooh.</p>

[d_g5]

<p>dude... go 7d... consensus among the Canonites is that the 7d gives IQ on par. you'll only loose 3mp difference! plus you'll save money. Low light shoot'll be equal! just get over the whole full frame thing and smile... you've got candid camera. plus think of it this way... unless you got a bunch of full frame lens'... you aint loosin out on nothin!</p>

[james_yap]

<p>Ok, so seems like for big prints, 5D2 is the camera. But how big is big? Is A3+ big or medium?</p>

[dcstep]

<p>d.g. said:<br>

"dude... go 7d... consensus among the Canonites is that the 7d gives IQ on par. you'll only loose 3mp difference! plus you'll save money. Low light shoot'll be equal! just get over the whole full frame thing and smile... you've got candid camera. plus think of it this way... unless you got a bunch of full frame lens'... you aint loosin out on nothin!"<br>

I've got both and don't feel like the 7D meets the 5D2's IQ at high ISOs. The 5D2 wins by a pretty good margin moving between 1600 ISO and 3200 ISO. Not that the 7D is bad, but the 5D2 is best in this regard. FF does still matter.</p>

<p>Still, for birds and wildlife I use the 7D as my main camera. I keep the 5D2 slung around my neck with a 24-105mm lens on it to catch the occasional sunset, interesting scenery or a flock of geese taking off right over my head. The crop-sensor makes the 7D easier to focus precisely, thanks to the larger subject in the viewfinder.</p>

<p>For people that do most of their work with lenses shorter than 100mm, I think that the 5D2 is the superior camera, overall. For sports and wildlife, the 7D is an incredible bargain that comes really close to the 5D2.</p>

[simon_t1]

<p>Nice review Puppy. Very interesting.</p>