What is the point....?

<p>Thanks to everyone for your most excellent contributions! This is a fantastic conversation and I never dreamt it would stimulate as much conversation as it has done. So many poeple have had so many constructive things to say, so I will not single out any people individually but a hearty thank you for very good replies. I am not one of those people who just want to hear lovely things all day long, I don't mind a good dose of reality meaning I welcome the good and the not so good comments, so please keep them rolling. I will definitely follow up on the many suggestions in this post. It has made excellent reading and I think it has been very useful for all but one.</p>

<p>That one is Kate Rocheleau who prefers to act like a child compared to everyone else here, making some very personal insults. Don't worry Kate, I have a very thick skin! If you find my post irritating, why have you bothered to make two posts in reply to it? It must have stirred some interest. What do you make of all the posts agreeing to some extent with my views? My OP is perfectly valid. Please don't think that in order to make any sort of comment or critique one has to be "one" yourself, as Jeff Spirer aptly pointed out. Do they only allow artists into art galleries? There is no right or wrong as this is a subjective matter. I am allowed to express my opinion, just like you are Kate. Get over the fact that one should accept a bit of criticism from time to time - we are not all geniuses, we are not all good looking. In fact some us us are probably obese and not very intelligent, fact of life. Some of us come last in the athletics race because we're just plain slow. Some of us will never be good photographers. But as for photography, who cares. As long as we enjoy it individually and gain some sort of satisfaction from it. Does it really matter what others think? Kate it seems you strive to live in a flowery world where everyone is perfect and nobody is deserving of any critique in what they do. Think again lassy. I strongly suggest you gain a measure of maturity and start acting like an adult otherwise you won't get very far. Interesting to note someone so new to this forum being so dismissive and insulting. I love it nontheless!</p>

<p>As for why I have very few street shots in my portfolio is that I feel I do not have any shots worthy of posting! Simple as that. My shots are not good enough. I have failed thus far in street photography. As my teachers at school used to say - "can do better"! I do not like posting what I consider to be garbage. There is too much garbage in this world and I don't need to add any more to it! But I will head out sometime soon and keep on trying. Nothing comes to those who don't put in the hard graft, except those born with a golden spoon in their mouths!</p>

<p>Unfortunately that is all I can post right now as I have to burn some midnight oil to get some of my real work done! More later.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Hey Kate, what kind of camera and lens do you shoot with?<br>

Maybe you think this place isn't overly appealing because the servers can be quite snobby and unpleasant ;)</p>

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<p>The other half think Dave is troll that needs attention that lives under a bridge, eats children and doesn't understand your art.</p>

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<p>Just FYI, I think you got the term "troll" wrong. It refers to someone "trolling" for attention. Trolling in a fishing context.</p>

<p><a href="http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/troller.htm">http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/troller.htm</a></p>

<p>I hope this helps.</p>

<p>EDIT: Forgot to mention. I don't think Dave is a troll.</p>

<p>Nobody understands my jokes, what's the point?</p>

<p>You're missing my point David, if you want to be an asshole then just say it to the person but don't hide behind a smoke screen.<br>

If you truly do want to know what the point of it is, why be specific about other people's specific photography in a hurtful way? Why not just ask "what's the point?" and end it there to generate discussion. But no you had to involve others photography in an insulting manner. That's what pissed me off about your post.<br>

Are my comments irritating because they're partly true?<br>

Others posted some street photographers to check out and it was helpful and that's great but I hate to see "buy in" to your post when it's not being honest and again something that just ticked me off so I let the words fly. I don't know you so perhaps my words may have been pretentious and harsh but so was parts of your post that single other people's "bad" (in your opinion) photography. That's all.</p>

<p>"I don't know squat about painting and I sure couldn't paint my way out of a paper bag, but your painting sucks! It's boring! What's the point?"</p>

<p>Is that a "critique"? No it's not a critique, it's a blowhard's admission of ignorance and arrogance. It's like the king in the film Amadeus complaining that the symphony has too many notes. Kids get bored at art museums; does that mean that art is boring? No, it means kids are ignorant.</p>

<p>I do not require that one must post in order to critique, but I also don't set as my goal to please every crab that crawls out from under the boat. The fact that there are a few people here who are able to have a conversation in spite of the obnoxious original post says nothing at all about the original post and surely does not prove that he "raised an interesting point". 10,000 baboons with typewriters may eventually produce a snippet of poetry, but that does make that lucky baboon a poet.</p>

<p>Excuse Kate for having an emotional reaction, but if David's post had said, "I don't get street photography, what's the point?" that would have been a fine thing. Or if he had gone to a forum where folks are asking for critiques, then he could have attacked all the individual photographs he wanted. I look at the wnw form as a dialogue, a conversation in visual images. If the conversation is not up to his standards, he might either spice it up by contributing or go someplace where he feels adequately stimulated.</p>

<p>If our moderators want these wnw posts to be an image-bashing free-for-all, let them say the word. I can bash with the best of them.</p>

A few people here need to be pancake bunnied.

<p>When you point the finger at someone there's still 3 fingers pointing back at you. Look within :)</p>

<p>When you point the finger at someone there's still 3 fingers pointing back at you. Look within :)</p>

<p>Recent WNW threads here ain't exactly happening...and it isn't just one guy. Lots of back of heads, disengaging so called subjects, shooting from way afar, cluttered comps, and just plain souless pics...</p>

<p>Kate, I am not going to enter into further conversation with someone who cannot be reasoned with. You are clearly one of those people who will have endless comebacks, which I have no time for. I am not up for a mud slinging match. My post was sincere and I mean what I said, but sadly you totally missed my points and the essence of my original post. I have benefited greatly from so many excellent replies, so it was well worth posting! Good luck living in your marshmallow, flowery world where everyone is perfect and everyone is a winner. Reality check - it ain't like that, and neither are you......</p>

 

<p>Kate, maybe it is the monthly lunar cycle that has got you so wound up...? If so, I can forgive that!</p>

<p>Come on Dave, that last bit is punk..</p>

<p>The man shows his colors. Real lofty discussion there dave.</p>

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<p>Kids get bored at art museums; does that mean that art is boring? No, it means kids are ignorant.</p>

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<p>Finding something boring does not mean necessarily mean that you are ignorant about a subject.</p>

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<p>The fact that there are a few people here who are able to have a conversation in spite of the obnoxious original post says nothing at all about the original post and surely does not prove that he "raised an interesting point".</p>

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<p>What is interesting to one person can be boring to another and vice versa.</p>

 

<p>Walt--<br>

david already conceded that he is ignorant about street photography. that was one of the premises of his original post. my point is that if he concedes ignorance, why then go forward with insults?</p>

<p>>>> my point is that if he concedes ignorance, why then go forward with insults?</p>

<p>What insults?</p>

<p>Let's not get carried away here. David's original post had a legitimate question about some of the 'street photos' on the web. Why do so many photographers take offense of his question? Are we to assume that an artists' works, no matter how famous, should be universally liked/undrstood? That is ludicrous. On the contrary, I would argue that the more you look at famous artists' works, the more critical you become.</p>

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<p>david already conceded that he is ignorant about street photography. that was one of the premises of his original post. my point is that if he concedes ignorance, why then go forward with insults?</p>

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<p>Where did he concede that he was ignorant? He said that he didn't get and actually wishes that he could get it. Instead of helping him understand what you see in a photo that he is missing I just see a bunch of people attacking him because he didn't like some photos.</p>

<p>When I was in elementary school we would read a story and have a quiz about the events in the story. In high school we had to analyze literature and discuss the underlying meaning, the characters motivations, etc. I didn't get it at first but eventually I did. Eventually I could understand what the story was really about, understand the symbolism, write a paper about it, and get an A. I still found the vast majority of the stories incredibly boring.</p>

<p>In my mind being able to "get" the underlying meaning of something has nothing to do with whether you find something interesting or boring. Finding something boring does not mean you are ignorant about the subject.</p>

<p>Might I offer a suggestion?</p>

<p>Everyone step back, take a deep breath, hold it, and exhale slowly. Pheeeeeew...</p>

<p>This is photography, folks. For nearly all of us, a hobby. We aren't debating on which way to turn the wheel to avoid steering the ship into an iceberg.</p>

<p>I have no pull with this forum, nor this website, but let's all please cool down a bit. I love spirited debate, but there is no room here for personal attacks and foul language. Such things are not why I paid money to be part of Photo.net. I would think the moderators and administrators share the sentiment.</p>

<p>David, great job sparking such lively discussion. I was happy to think about your questions and comments and then ponder and form my earlier response. I came to realize, and learn, something that's been in the back of my mind about this aspect of photography, but the notion(s) just hadn't blossomed yet for me. Now they have, and I'm better for this thread. But let's all discuss, hold a dialogue for and against, and take away something constructive from what each person says, not just throw mud. Remember the Community Standards for the site.</p>

<p>Good points Walt. Many people go to hockey games more for the fights and wouldn't know the blue line from a line of coke. But they love Hockey.<br>

David brings up good questions. Worth talking about. Of course, if you looked at every other photographic forum on Photo.net or any other large, public hosting site, you would ask the same questions. It's the nature of large, un-juried public sites.</p>

 

<p>I took Ray's advice and posted all the photographs that I have scans for in a later thread. I am no longer a poser, but a poster. Great thread!. Sometimes the truth hurts and sometimes it helps. But then the Truth is playing for the Boston Celtics. Thats all folks.</p>

<p>.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, as I have gotten older, I have become a little less sensitive.<br /> <br /> So, after trying my new job as a Wal-Mart greeter, last weekend (a good find for many retirees), I lasted less than a day...... <br /> <br /> About two hours into my first day on the job a very loud, coyote ugly, nasty woman walked into the store with her two kids <br /> yelling obscenities at them all the way through the entrance.<br /> <br /> As I had been instructed, I said pleasantly, 'Good morning, and welcome to Wal-Mart. Nice children you have there. Are they twins?' <br /> The ugly, nasty woman stopped yelling long enough to say, 'Hell no, they ain't twins. <br /> The oldest one's 9, and the other one's 7. Why the hell would you think they're twins? <br /> Are you blind, or just stupid?'<br /> <br /> So I replied, 'I'm neither blind nor stupid, Ma'am. I just find it hard to believe you got laid twice. <br /> Have a good day and thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart.'</p>