gord_hayes Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I'll start this off by saying I'll give one of you the money and go make my decision for me :) STILL trying to decide on a monitor. I was originally waffling around the Dell2408WFP, Apple 23 CD and NEC 2490. After reading piles of pages I ruled out the Dell and the Apple and decided to go with the NEC2490. I then started doing some more reading and said what the heck I might as well get the Lacie 324. THEN I discover that LACIE and NEC are pretty much identical except for the price. Is the LACIE 324 a clone (or vice versa) of the NEC 2490WXUi? I read this may be true of the 26" but wasn't sure about the 24's. I also considered a Samsung 245t at one point and sent Samsung an email asking which type of panel it used. I received this back; "Thank you for contacting Samsung E-Mail Support. Samsung does not make IPS panels but rather uses the more advanced PVA TN-TFT (Patterned Multiple Domains Vertical Alignment) Samsung LCD cell. Samsung currently has five monitors that are designed to meet the needs of professional or near professional photographers, graphic artists, desktop publishers, and similar artists. The models are listed below: * 226CW * 275T * XL20 * 245T * 906CW " Now in reading this thread http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00M6g0 it appears the highly regarded Eizo monitors use the same panel as the 245t (CDN$610). So is the Ezio 2 to x times better (vs cost) than the Samsung monitor using the same panel? Somebody decide for me. I wish money was not an issue but I have other camera bits to buy too :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel_zamora_morschhaeuse Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I recommend you check out the buyers guide on prad.de, where they are quite scientificly testing displays on everything from ergonomics to color space coverage: http://prad.de/en/monitore/buyers-guide/start.html I am too shopping for a new display, and when I compare the reviews on this site, it seems that you have few options. If money is an issue and photo work in AdobeRGB is the main objective, either get the 22 inch Eizo S2231W with 98% sRGB coverage and 90% RGB coverage for 580 EUR, the 24 inch Samsung 245T with 93% sRGB and 90% RGB coverage for 900 EUR or the fabulous 26 inch NEC 2690 WUXi with 100% sRGB and a very very good (95%?) AdobeRGB coverage for 1100 EUR. Anything better will set you back more than 1500/2000 EUR... The 24 inch displays by either Eizo or NEC have less than 90% Adobe RGB coverage and also do not cover sRGB as well as these monitors do - but they are still *very* good. And, the panel is not *quite* everything. It's also about the uniformity of the back light (*very* important!), build quality, ergomics, internal 10/12/14 Bit LUTs... So, to answer your question - if 24 inch is the size you want, get the Samsung. Otherwise, go for the 22 inch Eizo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gord_hayes Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 Thanks Manuel, I would primarily use sRGB. I may shoot in aRGB in the camera and edit in same final final would be is sRGB After all most printers won't print all the aRGB colours anyways. I picked 24 as I figured that would be a nice step up from my current 19". I don't play games so I couldn't careless how it handled Halo. (I prefer to see my opponents in real life and not some fantasy world). I realize the panel is not everything, I was just trying to be a bit general. (Just because your Fiat has Pirelli P7s doesn't mean it'll take 1.0 gs in the corner:) ) Do you know what the coverage is of the NEC 2490WUXi? Also when you say "internal 10/12/14 Bit LUTs" is that referring to a specific monitor or a target to strive for? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel_zamora_morschhaeuse Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 According to prad.de, the NEC covers sRGB "barely", which probably means something around 90%. If sRGB is your goal, then go with the NEC! Everyone of the mentioned displays feature a larger than normal LUT (lookup table), but for example the EIZOs feature a six axis color control, which in theory allows for a better display calibration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Don't base your decision on gamut alone. The NEC Series 90 displays (with an i in the product name denoting an IPS panel) are far superior to ACD, Dell or Samsung and comparable to Eizo at a far better price. For photo editing an IPS panel is the only way to go. P.S.: LaCie's are rebranded NEC's, often at a higher price and for sure with inferior support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 >I'll start this off by saying I'll give one of you the money and go make my decision for me :) Easy, get the NEC 2490. Its the best of the lot and conformed colorimetrically to be from Chris Murphy, Karl Lang last year in their presentation at PPE. Be sure to get the SpectraView II software and a good, supported colorimeter. None of the other displays on your short less have these capabilities. Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gord_hayes Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 Does the NEC2690 match it's little brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gord_hayes Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 I guess I am just going around in circles and should just get off and get a NEC. :) or maybe an Ezio s2431 :) But every once in a while I read another review that gets me thinking again Such as this one on the 245T http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=3221 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel_zamora_morschhaeuse Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 The NEC 2690 is a clear step ahead of its little brother and even the best display in this size and price class. An easy recommendation if you can afford this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 >Does the NEC2690 match it's little brother? >The NEC 2690 is a clear step ahead of its little brother Apples and oranges. The 2690 is a wide gamut display, the 2490 isn't. The results of the colorimetric tests done by Karl Lang showed the 2490 to be the most accurate, using a 20K reference Spectroradiometer and custom software over the 2690, not that the 2690 wasn't also excellent. The 2690 is larger in terms of screen size and gamut, but to say its a clear step ahead doesn't really wash, at least in terms of colorimetric accuracy. Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel_zamora_morschhaeuse Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 > The results of the colorimetric tests done by Karl Lang showed the 2490 to be the most accurate Can you post the link to that please? Always eager to learn ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 >Can you post the link to that please? Always eager to learn ;) There's nothing from the presentation at PPE posted although Karl says it will go up on his site: http://www.lumita.com/ Karl and Chris are supposed to do the session again this year at PPE. The show hasn't updated the seminar schedule for 2008 but should by the end of this month: http://www.photoplusexpo.com/ppe/5300/conference/index.jsp Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gord_hayes Posted July 5, 2008 Author Share Posted July 5, 2008 Hi Andrew, Thanks for the links but I can't find either of the two articles. I did a search for Karl lang on your first link and it came up with nothing. In the second link, I click on "PAPERS" but don't see one that makes sense. Could you link to the direct page? Many thanks Gord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manuel_terra Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 lacies are made by nec.I have nec 2690wuxi and I am very pleased.I think nec is the best value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 >lacies are made by nec.I have nec 2690wuxi and I am very pleased.I think nec is the best value. Some LaCie's are made by NEC. Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 Currently, all LaCie's are made by NEC. In the past year or so LaCie had some models made by others, but those have been obsoleted by LaCie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 >Currently, all LaCie's are made by NEC. In the past year or so LaCie had some models made by others, but those have been obsoleted by LaCie. You keep saying this and it is untrue. There are some units that are may by other manufacturers besides NEC. The 24" (324) is not an NEC unit. And no, its still current, not "obsoleted by LaCie": http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=11034 Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stwrtertbsratbs5 Posted July 8, 2008 Share Posted July 8, 2008 I've seen this 'NEC makes LaCie monitors' claim before. What, exactly, does NEC make for LaCie? Just the panel, or the entire monitor? Are the LaCie monitors different from the NEC monitors? Or is a straight re-branding of existing NEC models? Please, if you make these sorts of claims, then back them with fact - and references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 >I've seen this 'NEC makes LaCie monitors' claim before. What, exactly, does NEC make for LaCie? I don't think you're going to get an answer. Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Currently NEC makes most of the LaCie monitors with the apparent exception of the 24" product. Whatever NEC offers under their own brand name is sold as Lacie; panels, housing, electronics, manuals with only the product name being different. You can easily spot the NEC product by comparing the NEC and LaCie user manuals; the manual for the NEC product relabeled as LaCie is word for word identical to the NEC manual. A notable exception between both product lines is support; NEC in my experience offers solid support for their products, while LaCie support people made a very bad impression on my when I visited them at the US headquarters in Hillsboro, Oregon. Again, enough facts and references? Somehow, it seems we had this conversation already in another thread, but apparently it merits repeating facts and references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 >Somehow, it seems we had this conversation already in another thread, but apparently it merits repeating facts and references. Based on your incorrect statements about the product line(s), absolutely! >Currently NEC makes most of the LaCie monitors with the apparent exception of the 24" product. Apparent? Not to those of us that knew the facts. So now it's "most". Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 So, excuse me! I didn't (again) painstakingly compare specifications and user manuals of the latest bunch of LaCie LCD monitors against those of NEC's like I did a while back and in not doing so missed the fact that the new LaCie 24" obviously is not an NEC product. Excuse me again for not being perfect like some folks here on the forum and repeating my homework over and over again on a regular basis to make sure I don't miss the latest product line-up changes of LaCie. So, now that we have that out of the way, the fact remains that LaCie doesn't manufacture any of "their" LCD monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 >Excuse me again for not being perfect like some folks here on the forum and repeating my homework over and over... This series of incorrect homework: Frans Waterlander , Jul 08, 2008; 12:24 p.m. Currently, all LaCie's are made by NEC. Frans Waterlander , Jul 04, 2008; 12:45 p.m. P.S.: LaCie's are rebranded NEC's, often at a higher price and for sure with inferior support. Aug 06, 2007; 12:35 p.m. Hello Kees, I'd definitely go with the 1990SXi as the FX is older technology and LaCie's are rebranded NEC monitors, often at an increased cost. Frans Waterlander , Aug 20, 2007; 12:54 p.m. The MDview 202 is an NEC display for medical applications Frans Waterlander , Feb 28, 2007; 12:13 a.m. I also wonder why people buy LaCie monitors when they can buy the exact same monitors from NEC for a lot less money; NEC makes most of the LaCie monitors, including the 321. Frans Waterlander , Dec 15, 2007; 07:05 p.m. One more time: LaCie doesn't manufacture any of the monitors they sell; most if not all come straight from NEC. That's not hearsay but straight from LaCie employees at the US headquarters. >So, now that we have that out of the way, the fact remains that LaCie doesn't manufacture any of "their" LCD monitors. That was never disputed. It is correct. The other areas you disputed however, that is like the above, incorrect, is assuming that OEM'd panels from NEC are of identical quality as those used by NEC for their line. Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frans_waterlander Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 As far as I can tell, in the current LaCie LCD monitor line-up the recently introduced 24" monitor is the only one not made by NEC. At other times every LaCie was built by NEC. "...assuming that OEM'd panels from NEC are of identical quality as those used by NEC for their line" I have never claimed this to be true or false and as far as I can tell, you don't know that either. Specifications for the LaCie branded NEC monitors are identical to the NEC monitors, down to every detail, leading me to believe that indeed the panels and everything else is identical to the NEC branded products, at least for all characteristics that have an impact on the identical published specifications like resolution, viewing angle, gamma bit depth, contrast ration, etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 >...assuming that OEM'd panels from NEC are of identical quality as those used by NEC for their line... >>I have never claimed this to be true or false and as far as I can tell, you don't know that either. We indeed discussed this: You said: "Every LaCie LCD monitor is bought from NEC and meets the exact same published specifications as the NEC product." This doesn't at all back up your assumption that NEC keeps the best units for their branding, only that the specifications THEY PUBLISH (as you claim) are purchased by LaCie. Big difference. And unlike you, I do know. >leading me to believe that indeed the panels and everything else is identical to the NEC branded products, You'd be advised to do a lot less assuming! You know the old saying about those who assume don't you? Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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