How do you treat a wild dogs and other beasts

Hello,

In our places there are at least tow things which are very bothersome:

wild dogs and ticks. Last summer I had a bad experience with either. Hopefully

all that already cured. What is Your methods to avoid unwanted predators, ticks

and other bad things during Your trips in wilderness.

Thanks in advice.

Sorry to hear about your bad encounters! We're glad you're here to participate!

 

Deet will protect against ticks and therefore the infectious agents they harbor, although I know some people don't like it. Still the literature doesn't suggest substantial side-effects of Deet, its ominous chemical character notwithstanding.

 

An alternative might be protective clothing and measures: Pants with long legs stuffed into boots, long sleeved shirts, etc. Carefully check yourself in a mirror when you disrobe, or have someone else check for ticks. Maybe Deet sprayed on protective clothing is the best. But if its hot, maybe clothing isn't practical.

 

I might suggest Mace for wild dogs except I'm not sure that would be the best choice. Frankly I don't know. Possibly a gun if you're adept and local regulations allow that. Dealing with one dog isn't that difficult, but a pack of them is much harder to handle.

When wandering round French and Corsican villages, where there are often quite aggressive semi-feral dogs on the streets early in the mornings, I used to carry a dog-scarer, which is a battery -operated device that emits a sound at a frequency dogs can hear but you can't (I guess you have to take their word for this). This seemed to work quite well though it takes a fair amount of courage to point a small plastic box at a big snarling beast that's smelling breakfast. At any rate I never got bitten.

 

The device is called a Dazer and it was made in the USA by K-II Enterprises, Camillus NY

permethrin for ticks if youre around them a lot, but timing is important, the best thing to do is avoid them during their adult stage. As per the dogs, where are you finding "wild" dogs? shoot them if it's legal. . .

The Dazer sounds like an interesting device and I think it would be worth a shot. Pepper spray or mace can be quite effective on 1 or 2 dogs. If local regulations allow it I would carry a collapsable baton (if you are a person of resonable stature). A large dog can be scary in the extreme, but a strike with a collapsable baton is general sufficient to scare away or incapacitate a dog (now something like a bear would only be ticked off). Note though that some municipalities and countries ban collapsable batons. Carrying a firearm if legal would also potentially be a good option for self protection, though it would not be a good idea in an urban/village/town area partly because of the danger of missing the animal and striking someone down range.

 

As for avoiding wild dogs no real ways, the dazer might scare them off and traveling with several people would help.

 

DEET works for ticks, but I have heard people complain about the damage it can do to plastics. Pants tucked into boots help ticks from latching on lower on your body and if you tuck your shirt in to your pants the only place they can really latch on is on your arms, neck, head and face (all unpleasant). A little bit of DEET sprayed lower on your clothing may be enough to deter a tick without having to spray your upper body, arms or face.

I usually have my monopod with me. It's a good 5ft long when extended, very strong and would work well in fending off unwanted beasts of the 2 and 4 legged kind.

The Army uses a combination of DEET on exposed skin and PERMETHRIN on clothing. Neither works well on the other medium. This is effective against ticks, chiggers, mosquitos, itch mites, et. al. Keep your pant cuffs tucked into your boots (or socks), or use gaitors.

 

You can get pepper spray in "bear" cans, which is effective against dogs if not bears, and politically-correct for vicious "pets". For anything tougher than wild dogs, I prefer something noiser, where permitted.

In cities outside the USA, I check in advance with the State Dept. to see what sorts of issues are being reported...if feral animals, I ensure I have a name of a local infectious diseases physician, but generally try to avoid these areas. In rural areas, I check as well, and usually talk with locals to avoid encounters. After a friend had to go thru a series of rabies shots while on missionary duty in Central America, I pay particular attention to these issues. Usually of greater concern to me and the people I hike with are the issues of giardia and altitude sickness.

As unpleasant as repellents (DEET, Permethrin) may be, this is definitely a case of the disease being worse than the cure.

I mean by this that that dengue fever, Lyme's disease and any flavour of malaria is much, much worse than using (correctly) the above insect

keeper-offers. And they really work. DEET for mosquitos and Permethrin for ticks, ants and arthropods.

 

Permethrin aerosol or clothing soak, and DEET in concentration of

at least 50% is highly recommended. I used these things in the military and I use them now, as needed; they allow you to be and

work in places you otherwise could not be in either safely or comfortably.

 

For aggressive dogs (apart from mastiff types) a good, sharp whack on the nose with a flexible baton should do the trick. Two, if needed -

and leave your inhibitions at home. Aggressive dogs in a pack - wild or domesticated makes little difference - and it is best to avoid being where they are if possible. And, yes, I have had a dog or dogs for nearly my whole life.

 

Good luck in the wilderness.

Bring your own poodle dog with a fresh haircut and a pink bow, that will distract the wild dogs while you run. Otherwise a Remington 870 12 ga with 00 buckshot is handy. Great description about running from wild dogs in "The Tracker" by Tom Brown Jr. old book about 1980.

I would never-ever use DEET in or around any lenses- ever. Perhaps that is all nonsense BUT I am not willing to learn the hard way on a $2000 piece of glass. I would rather take my chances with the bugs.

 

Feral dogs are dangerous; many of them do not have that built in "fear" that wild animals have. Many of those dogs have been around humans and were abandoned, or worse. If you encounter one or a pack, stand your ground, make yourself appear as big as you possibly can and make the biggest aggressive sound you can make. When they back down start backing away slowly. When you run, it engages their predator reflexes even more. I love dogs and have been around them all of my life; however, if I were armed I would not hesitate to shoot a feral dog. The next person coming down the path might be 8 years old.....

jeff

In my own experience, DEET does not seem to work very well against ticks. I recall seeing some research saying that too. Remember, DEET is not an insecticide but is designed to confuse the sensory organs of mosquitos.

 

What I know DOES for sure work on ticks is a permethrin spray. This can be found in a blue & orange can of REPEL brand in Walmart sporting goods dept. DEET is great for mosquitos, but to be sure to keep ticks, chiggers, and mosquitos off you use the permethrin spray. You put this on your clothes, not your skin. This is the stuff that Bug OFF! clothing has embedded in it.

 

 

I've never had problems with wild dog packs myself, other than one pack that used to chase our cattle and our neighbor's cattle too. We all got together, rounded them up, and shot them with automatic rifles. If I came across aggressive dogs out on my own and was unarmed, I'd start looking for a tree to climb.

 

 

Kent in SD

It's good to note that Deet will affect the plastic on the top and rear LCD's of many cameras. I know of someone with a permanent thumbprint on the top LCD of his 30D due to Deet.

I regularly hike bear country and wolf country alone or with my wife. We both carry the large cans of Bear strength pepper gas on our hip. Buy one more can than you will need and use it for practice before you carry it so you know how to quickly unlock it, how far it shoots, and what effect the wind has on it. I also carry a fixed blade knife with a 4-inch blade upside down, from a sheath located immediately inside my photo vest (if the pepper spray doesn't work). I'm left handed so the knife is on my right side. I can pull it in less than a second. Brand - a Gerber stileto.

 

Most of the time in the wilderness I also carry my tripod. I have the type where if I remove the rubber feet 3 nasty 2-inch long spikes are exposed. I have no doubt they too would come in handy in a wild dog encounter.

 

When I was about 12 years old I was attacked by a large wild dog. The following is what I did - I firmly grabbed the dog immediately behind the head with both hands and held on tight. Try as it would, it could not break loose my hold. Fortunately, help arrived in a few minutes before I tired and could no longer maintain the grip due to fatique.

 

With a dog, unlike a bear, you really do not need to seriously worry about it claws. Sure they will scratch the heck out of you, but you usually would not get seriously hurt by their claws.

 

If you are strong enough, I have no doubt that you could kill a dog with such a hold if you desired.

 

With more than one dog, the neck choke hold method would not work, because the second (or third) dogs would be able to bite you at will with both of your hands firmly on the first dogs' throat.

 

I would like to point out that I'm a former US Soldier, and an former division 1 football player - my dog choke hold may not work for everyone...

Dave, Kent, and anyone with this sort of experience: do you think the compact marine air

horns would be of much help in a dog attack?

Pepper gas spray has been proven in Alaska to be more effective in stopping charging Grizzly and Brown Bears than guns. Pepper spray can be carried in your checked luggage, and is legal in most countries and all USA National Parks. If I am going to have something in my hands with a large/dangerous animal charging me it is going to be a large can of pepper gas spray - not a can of compressed air that makes a loud noise. marine air horns are not proven effective against aggresive animals, and I would not want to be the first to try it.

Thanks You all a lot for detailed answers. There was some really good information.

I am astounded at the suggestions to shoot to kill a feral dog.

 

Have I visited a new photo.net?

 

Where people enjoy and photograph natural things?

 

Except maybe, those natural things which have teeth?

 

What the HELL happened to photo.net????

"What the HELL happened to photo.net????"

 

I blame Discovery's Shark Week. And the NeoCons -- not sure why, but this seems like a good time to get your licks in :-)

 

Seriously, the explicit condition the OP gave was to avoid an unspecified problem with feral dogs, most likely an attack, where presumably flight or more humane responses are not applicable.

 

It seems harsh, but maybe no harsher than the pounds and Humane Societies that have to "euthanize" maybe three out of every four of their charges annually because no one wants these surplus animals and there are new animals at the gates waiting to be "processed".

 

Shooting is not an ideal strategy for various reasons, including:

 

1. It may be illegal

 

2. It may be socially impermissible

 

3. You may not have access to a gun

 

4. You may not be a good enough shooter

 

5. You might hurt other people

 

6. Just carrying a gun seems to increase the risk you will use it, and not necessarily on a feral dog (I encounter candidates all the time:-)

 

7. Feral dogs have certain rights vis-a-vis human interlopers, including the right to life (and human assault?) (I know animal rights advocates who would make this and related claims.)

 

So if this approach seems either deplorable or impractical, this would be the time and place to advance an alternative, both for the OP's sake and in the hopes of educating the unwashed knuckle-draggers.

Not all wildlife photographers shoot large and dangerous mammals in zoos, at captive animal farms, and in national parks from the safety and comfort of the roadside. Some of us travel off the beaten path to find wild animals in their natural habitat.

 

Not all landscape photographers are satisfied with simply re-shooting the more famous scenic photos at popular venues and national parks that have already been shot before by the masters. Some of us are continuously seeking out new areas for landscape vistas that are unique and original.

 

Exploring these new photographic animal and landscape opportunities will often expose the photographer to the rigors of the natural environment - which yes, sometimes result in face-to-face encounters with WILD bears, aligators, nasty and potentially deadly biting insects, and even wild feral dogs.

 

If one travels off the beaten path one has to be prepared - or eventually suffer the consequences. Maybe there should be two "nature forums" - one for the zoo/wildlife park/national park set, and the other for the more adventurous?

Gloria , I'm not sure photo.net has changed so much- its just a large and broad community with all sorts of opinions within it. Its always been like this.

 

Personally I don't want to carry a gun for this or indeed any other reason- and where I live (and pretty much where everyone lives outside the USA) it would be illegal and socially unacceptable to do so. And for me I'm not sure I can guarantee to retain the discipline or restraint not to use it, or at least wave it around, if severely provoked or endangered.

 

But there is an issue. If I'm attacked by a dog or dogs- or at least any dog capable of causing me substantial harm, I'm not at all sure I give two hoots about the rights of the dog, the rights of the owner, animal cruelty issues, or whether the dog came from a broken home. I'm going to do what I need to do not to be bitten. My chosen defence is a dog scarer and whatever I have to hand. But if I ever get attacked by three or four feral dogs , I might just regret being effectively unarmed as I cast aside my shattered tripod and reach for my------?

'Maybe there should be two "nature forums"'

 

Heck no! The best parties are those where you get to meet folks who don't see things the way you do -- assuming they don't end in fisticuffs :-)

Wild dogs, <i>Lycaon pictus</i> are an endangered species.

<p>

There appears to be a different attitude to Wildlife in America than in Africa. If you are in

their territory on their terms, ie in a preservation of wildlife area, I would have very little

time for your predicament. The Cape hunting dog (wild dog) would probably not attack

unless provoked, or in a wet spell with minimal food. But your survival would be

negligeable with more than 3 dogs.

<p>

If you are refering to Ferral/Rabid doggies then, when their front legs are pulled outwards

this causes the shoulders to dislocate inwards, crushing the heart/lungs. Unfortunately

this brings their sharp bitey bits close to your face and it takes a desperate and brave

person to do this. After you have done this you will need to face a spell of Rabies

injections, the 12 inch long needle into your abdomen daily for a week in my experience

should be about as entertaining as the attack.

<p>

With dogs you have no worrys of the legs doing any damage. A very large boulder along

the size of a car battery is probably your best bet. (includes Jacals and hyenas, though I

would be very wary of the hyenas jaws)

<p>Almost always a Cat will attack in a leaping movement, 13 year old President Kruger is

rumored to have ducked and used his sheath knife to slit open the belly of a Lion, thus

killing it (somewhat slowly though). The Masaai when hunting Lions try to corner it, then

plant a spear in the earth to face the attack, and take the bodily blow protected by a small

leather shield, then use a broad sword to tidy things up.

<p>With cats such as Lions and Tigers the front legs are used with devestating effect in

addition to the jaws. Lions tend to not really do much with humans, I have found that large

stones usually get the right idea across, also have had a couple of experiences with fire,

once ended up standing in the fire pit, very effective for them, a bit unpleasant for me, and

on the other occasion a can of insecticide and cigarette lighter.

<br>Although there were all those coolies in Tsavo whom seem to have had no success in

defending themselves... What about those 1000 odd chaps from Njombe who had a

particularly rough time of it.

<p>With cats along the Leopard line, use everything with deadly efficiency, they even have

a claw in their tail, so thats not even safe. They are much faster than lions and there is no

defense. The only suitable action against a leopard attacking you is a shot gun with wide

spread bird shot, when it is very close and lots of luck.

<br>

In this day and age there is no need to get into these situations, if you do, then like

Poaching you takes your chances. A Ranger in South Africa that shot and killed a charging

Rhino to protect his guests was jailed for 5 years, fined about 16x his salary and was

unemployable in SA (He later got get a job hunting in Zim, but has since changed

professions)

<p>

Other beasties along the lines of Bears, you are on your own there, perhaps if you are

expecting to encounter one then the Masaai method would be the best solution. Other

than a dangerous game rifle (minimum .375) Unfortunately I have no input here. But in

USA I would use a Soft bullet first.

<br>In Africa its a good guess, a solid will go straight through a lion and do nothing,

perhaps excite him some more.

<br>Whereas a soft will stop him in his tracks so load a soft first... All very well unless a

Buffalo comes out the bush, in which case the soft will bounce off and annoy him quite

some, whereas a solid would more likely knock him on his bum... Too many (2) people I

know have been on the recieving end of Buffalo with an insufficient answer.

<p>

You should be ordinairily unlikely to come across the above, whereas you are highly likely

to come across Baboons.

<br>

Use a catapult; first go for the sentry, then repeatedly go for the biggest baddest male.

They will back down. Remember that they will always disrespect and show no fear for

females, so be prepared to aim towards the women in your group.

<p>

Snakes?... a good five iron has to be the best preventative.

<p>

<p>

Unfortunatley no other experience to offer you, other than remember to get low and firstly

try to focus propperly, secondly expose the picture so as to show the drama, and always

remember the rule of thirds.

<p>

Failing all; else place head firmly between your knees and kis goodbye

Dave

I've lived in or near the places you're talking about all my life.

 

YOU are the problem. You come in from cities after reading about nature and believe that you have some right to be there. And some right to bring death and destruction with you to make it human-friendly. You're the folks who cut trails through the forest to make your hikes easier and rape wilderness areas with chainsaw cut campsites because its all about you.

 

Id prefer keep your carnage in the cities thanks. We've had way too many of you wannabes destroying whats left of the wild in order to "enjoy" or photograph it.

 

If you cant go into the woods without an armada to protect you DONT GO. If you'r afraid of bears and wolves STAY AWAY from them. You are coming into THEIR home. And you want to bring weapons to KILL the very things you claim to want to photograph?

 

If it were up to me you wouldnt be allowed to own a camera much less enter a national forest. I'd imagine youd have to stick to the "macros" which consist of you sticking bugs on pins or gluing them to leaves to produce your "nature" photographs.

 

Please stay home.

As one who lives within minutes of the front door to Glacier National Park, and millions of acres of wilderness and forest service land, by far the best thing to carry is the industrial size pepper sprays. The only thing you have to have is the "stones" to wait until the target is in the effective range. Not too hard with dogs, a bit more on the scary side with large carnivorous fang bearing critters. I've lived and hunted in NW Montana for 24 years now. Never had a problem with bears. Knowing how to behave in THEIR environment is the key to keeping your attachments, attached. And beside being more effective, pepper spray is a lot lighter tocarry around than a "large enough" handgun.

 

Jim