What to buy?

Hi,

 

I'm mostly into portraiture (D200 w. 85mm 1.4@1.4), but the other day saw this amazing guy called matt

stuart who's shooting street mostly. He's using Leica M6 for obvious reasons. I looked at the used prices in

Denmark, but they're 1500-2000$ for the body alone! If I want to get a nice "starter RF" what should I get?

Any suggestions? I have a Epson V750 scanner available, and I think I'm gonna shoot 400 negs.

 

Thanks

Thomas

Thomas. You can pick up M6s on EBay for less than that (Say $1200-$1300). Of previous Leica bodies the M2 is generally the least expensive, and there are plenty about. The M2 has no built in meter, though, and the Leicameters that attach to the top plate make the camera harder to put in a pocket. Otherwise you have to go for something non-Leica, say a Voigtlander. For street shooting I'd use a 28mm or 35mm, depending on preference. Sticking with Leica, the f3.5 35mm Summaron is an underestimated lens. I've heard good things about Voigtlander lenses also, but I only have the 12mm, and can't comment on longer focal lengths.

First of all you can buy a a Leica film camera for less than that. Anywhere from $750 to $1200. Just watch the posts here, rangefinder forum, and ebay.

 

Then, figure what lens you want. Do you like the "normal" 50 like Bresson used? Do you want a 35, which has more of a wide angle feel? Or, do you want to go with a 28mm which is the lens Winogrand always used?

 

Answer those questions, and then you can figure from there. Seriously, figure out how you want to shoot which will determine the lens options. Then you can pick the right Leica. Answer these questions and I/we can help you go from there.

 

Regarding scanners, you need a dedicated film scanner, not a flatbed.

 

On the other hand, your D200 should work pretty well.

Stick with Nikon. If you want to go for film, get a f:1.8/50mm and a f:2.0/35mm. Spend the extra money on a Nikon dedicated film scanner, a like-new F3HP will only run you about $5-700.

Is it this <a href=http://www.mattstuart.com/>Matt Stuart</a> ?<p>

 

He's a very good street shooter, but I'd say that's less a result of his camera than a byproduct of a good eye and lots of being out there on the street.<p>

 

To see if that's for you, Thomas, I'd give serious thought to taking the D200 you already own, mounting another lens (18 - 70mm 'kit' lens would be just fine, or a 24mm, 28mm, or 35mm prime if you prefer, and heading out to the streets yourself.

Reality check time! a) What Bill says, b) what Michael S says c) if you are just aiming to shoot 400 negs then a Leica is a very costly route, c) it sounds to me like you have a preferred 'solution' but that you really haven't fully identified what the actual 'problem' is ...

 

Regardless of all that, a cheap(!) Leica system would be a user M2 and a 35mm Summaron, plus a separate meter. However, I'd strongly suggest you buy a cheap rangefinder film camera with a fixed lens (Canon, Minolta, Olympus, etc) and go out and shoot some black & white film before jumping - rather precipitantly - into a Leica system. If you can't/don't get the results you aspire to then you'll be out of pocket to the tune of 50 dollars (max), not 1000 .... AC

M6 and a 40mm Rokkor or Summicron, or any other lens of your choice. You can get back

most of what you paid for it if you

don't like it. Why 400 negs anyway?

 

Shooting with a Nikon DSLR or SLR aint the same thang..

The beauty of a 35 rangefinder and street shooting is being discrete...it's tough to do that

with a D200.

Leica CL or CLE with 40mm Rokkor around $500-650, small, unobtrusive, perfect for what you want to do.

Thank you all. I have a 35mm f2 prime (and the 50mm 1.4), but the D200 looks too pro,

and people always comes up to me and asks me who or what I shoot for (even without the

battery grib attached). I like the 50mm range (on a 36x24 film) the most. My 35mm is

almost 50mm on the D200.

 

I like the idea of getting into the crowd without people thinking of me as a photographer,

the oll' "that (Leica) looks like an old camera" impression, you know? The D200 makes a lot

of noise when shooting, and I like the idea of developing my own negs. I find computers

take too much of my time, and - without purpose - I spend too much time surfing and

reading camera tech stuff that doenst matter. It's the picture that counts.

 

I like the big "fokus screen" in the Leica RF compared to the small dot focus screen in the

Nikons and other slrs.

 

I've done a bit of shoting with a Rollei 6002, and I really like the handling of those nice

lenses. Also I like using my Sekonic L758 meter and using a lit of time on the exposures. I

know street is different, but mf lenses are nice to work with imho.

 

Yes, it's the same Matt Stuart. I know he's got an eye for the content of the image, but I

think that I might be more bold if I had a "non-attention" camera. Maybe a small digital

pocket PnS would the same job for me as well, but I like the fact that I control the fokus,

shutter and aperture, and not the camera. Especially the fokus part. You only get that in a

RF I think?

 

Thanks :o)

Thomas

You don't need an RF to manually focus, but the viewfinder is a real nice window to see with.

P&S is an attractive idea, but then all you have to view the subject is an LCD screen, or

inferior viewfinder. If you like it, go for it, you've got nothing to lose.

Michael S., thank you for the Matt Stuart link. I wasn't previously familiar with him, and the work is superb (both B&W and color -- sorry, colour).<P>The funny thing is that of the nearly 100 images, that except for only a couple where the subject seemed aware of the photographer, the rest could just as well have been made with a 4x5 (that's 5x4 to you) Linhof Technika and no one would have noticed the difference!<P>It's an excellent example where the results are purely due to the photographer, and using a Leica had virtually nothing to do with it.

Canonet QL-17 buy in good working condition for around $75.00. it has a very shape 40mm f1.7 lens fully manual or semi auto exposure. Buy one and try the RF thing out. if you decide you aren't into it then you sell it for $75.00 and your out nothing and will have learned without selling the car to buy a camera.

You could also start with a Konica Hexar wit the fixed 35f2,0 (exelent lens) they can be

obtained quite cheap.

If you are from Denmark and can come to Nordsjaelland I would be happy to lend you Hexar,

I might even have a M6TTL with a Rigid 50 you can try a week or so.

 

(btw. they are not on sale)

 

Kaj

Bill's right, only the F3 is still too pro-looking. Get an FE2/FM2, or even an FG and keep using your existing lenses -- unless you're looking for an excuse for more toys.

>I like the big "fokus screen" in the Leica RF compared to the small dot focus screen in the Nikons and other slrs.

 

You got it backwards. It's the rangefinder camera that cannot use the whole viewfinder image but only the small, central RF patch for focusing.

 

Or did we all just swallowed a bait?

D200 is fine. I just got 24/35/50 AI lenses for $250.

 

Auto focus is better for fast action.

 

I love my Leicas and they make wonderful pics that Nikon can`t touch. The cost is high

though and be prepaired to spend money on repairs.

 

I liken them to BMW auto`s, big money waster. So be sure you can afford it.

Learn how to develop B&W film properly, how then to scan properly and how then to post process with photo shop and then how to print. Think about what stuff you really want to shoot and what tools are required to accomplish this task.

 

After you have invested in teaching yourself how to make excellent negatives and prints about the subject matter that turns you on - you will probably come to the conclusion that you like using a wide angle lens, a normal lens and a mid telephoto for portraits.

 

You will discover that for 80% of your shots you probably only need one lens.

 

You will also discover that a faster lens is more useful than a slower lens.

 

You will probably tire of processing all the TRX you shoot and yearn for a digi camera that gives you the same look as your best negatives from B&W - then you will also discover that you cant get a film look with digital shots and you cant get a digi look with film.

 

As you put yourself through this learning curve - you will also note that camera manufacturers tend to update their digi bodies every 2-3 years depending and that there is always a better camera next year.

 

By this time however - you wont give two hoots about this - because you will have settled on a work flow that suits you and your personal biases.

 

You will then start to frett about the system you haven't put together to store your negatives and or digi files. You will also then ignore this constant feeling of concern.

 

Finally after a few years - you will do a look back on your work - and discover that the best shots you have ever made ( the ones you like the most) - are those involving your documentation of either what you were into really really big time at some stage and your loved ones and friends.

 

It takes heart to make a beautiful picture and time and understanding - the camera you have in hand is a tiny fraction of the equation.

Bill I vote with you on the Nikon F3HP. I put it is burgundy leather half case and it gets few looks. Its small compared to some of the lagre dslr, not many buttons and looks quaint with the lever winder on top.

 

Thomas, the F3HP has a Big bright viewfinder and smooth winder, the camera has a auto feature that you only get on the M7. The only downside of the F3HP is the flash situation so I don't use it for flash any more than I use my M4P. I use my F100 and SB800 for flash, its dummy proof for that at 1/250 sec. But the F3HP only cost me $300 in better then mint with a high serial number. I changed the screen to a big microprism spot for my fast 50mm F1.2, 85mm f1.4 and 28mm f2.0.

 

This is a great camera you can lock up the mirror if you need no shake at all, but its mirror is well damped. This is my Sunday camera, it makes going out to shoot a nice day in the park and with every press of the shutter comes with a smile. I never had a camera including my Pentax LX that did that.

<b><i>Peter A, Sep 16, 2007; 10:49 p.m.</b></i>

<p>Peter, Thank you for the brilliant article. It deserves to be read by anyone venturing into this realm.

Thomas, I have a bit of a different take on things.

 

When I wanted a Leica, I went out and bought one. I didn't listen to anyone who told me that some other camera would do, or that I should learn some other skills first. The results I got by trial and error with the Leica inspired me to learn to develop my own film and make my own prints.

 

If you want to try a Leica, get one. Don't let anyone talk you out of it. Some people learn to swim by taking lessons; others just dive in. If you buy used equipment, you can almost always sell it for at least as much as you paid for it; the financial risk is minimal. And, for some people, the psychic return is immense.

>>> And, for some people, the psychic return is immense.

 

Huh? Like channeling HCB in the spirit world?

Think of this as a certain baseball mitt for a youngster (it was a particular Wilson in my youth, and I never did get one); or perhaps an expensive pair of running shoes for a weekend jogger who tops out at 2 miles on his best day; a fine acoustic guitar for someone who really hasn't got the chops yet, and likely never will; or a high quality power saw for a hobbyist woodworker/cabinet maker at home who could make do with much less.<p>

 

In each of these examples, until the expensive, high quality item becomes the only one "spec'd" well enough to get the job done -- which if we're being honest is <u>never</u> in most cases -- the purchase of that gear cannot truly be "justified." (And some may point out that it might be contraindicated for the Leica rangefinder, because of limitations vs. other, more versatile gear.)<p>

 

Never mind all of that. If the purchase of the mitt, shoes, guitar, power saw, etc. ... that a guy really wants <u>actually gets him out there</u> playing, running, working with wood more often, and more enthusiastically, and with greater passion, then it serves a purpose.<p>

 

Many of us are 'flawed' in this way. Some of us go through an elaborate hedonic calculus to justify this. Some of us laugh at ourselves as we do it.<P>

My answer is that most often since I got the Nikon F3HP, I reach for it when going out to take along and leave the M4P at home. Its just as well built the F3HP and even though I have great lenses for the Leica (21 CV; 25 Zeiss; 35 leica; 50 konica and 90 leica the fast Nikon outfit lenses are all 4 star or better lenses.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if people actually read what Peter wrote?