AGFA IS BACK

Unability is not a real word? Drat, I've been using it for years.

<i>in</i>-ability is a real word. <i>un</i>-ability is not.

<p>

though you can be <i>unable</i> to do something.

Imagine that...two business days and no response from Lupus.

All right, this was my mistake. "Unability" seems to be the old-fashioned variant, which is incorrect (uncorrect? not correct? non-correct?) in modern english. Anyway, it is still widely used, also by native speakers (which I am not).

 

Regards

 

Georg

"Bruce Cahn , jan 25, 2007; 12:27 a.m.

Agfapan is currently made by Maco in Germany. The 400 is called Rollei retro, the 100 and 25 Rolleipan. There is even a throwaway plastic camera with 24 shots of retro and if you know how to print you can get surprisingly good pictures with it. As good as with a Japanese 35mm film camera."

 

Maco does not possess a film factory and they do not make film.

 

But if you wish to believe that they make film, please don't let me stop you.

As quoted from the Lupus website:

 

"Lupus Imaging & Media has the exclusive worldwide rights to market AGFAPHOTO branded films, single use cameras and analogue cameras."

 

Keyword "market"

@ John:

 

Interestingly, in German Lupus says: "Lupus Imaging und Media hat das weltweit exklusive Recht, Filme, Single Use Cameras und analoge Kameras der Marke AGFAPHOTO herstellen zu lassen und zu vertreiben." which means, that Lupus Imaging is licensed to sell AND produce (or let produce) films, single use cameras and analoge cameras.

 

Would be fine if Agfa films were produced again. But as pointed out above, it cannot be more than selling off the last batches of film already produced. A bit sad, that this company is trying to evoke the feeling that somewhere an Agfa maschine is running and producing fresh films.

 

Roland

I think it is an intentional mis-use of the word 'produce'.

 

One can 'produce' an item by making it. A hen produces an egg.

 

One can 'produce' an item by presenting it. I can reach into my refrigerator and produce an egg.

 

However, a hen 'makes' an egg. I do not make eggs.

 

I can 'produce' an omelet made with eggs - and I can also say that I 'made' the omelet. But I still did not make the eggs that went into the omelet.

 

If I form a company and purchase the rights to use the name "Orwo" from whomever still owns that name and trademark, I can then arrange to have film put into little cannisters labeled with the "Orwo" name. Is that "Orwo" film? Is it correct to say I 'produce' Orwo film?

 

The sad fact is that Agfa film is out of production. It is not being made anymore. I understand that there is a huge stockpile of it, and that's good, for it was lovely film.

 

If the film is already in boxes and labeled as 'Agfa' film, then there is no reason a company would have to own the rights to the name in order to sell the stuff as "Agfa" film.

 

But if the film is in huge master rolls that must be cut down, perforated (in the case of 35mm), spooled, and boxed, then I would presume that one must *not* have boxes made up with the Agfa name or trademark to put it in, unless one has the rights to do so. And that is what it appears that this is what Lupus has purchased.

 

So, does Lupus produce Agfa films? I would say yes, they do or will or intend to put previously-made Agfa film in boxes labeled "Agfa" because they have secured the legal right to do so.

 

Does Lupus 'manufacture' or 'make' Agfa film? No. As I said, the machinery for the factories was sold off to a Korean firm, which carted it away. They intend to use it to make plastic film, but not photographic film.

 

This is important - Agfa film is GONE. Not just defunct - but missing as in not there anymore. No one can start up the production line again, it has gone away.

 

I'm sorry, I wish it was true - I wish someone was starting up a photographic film manufacturing line again.

I agree that the hope for a return of Agfa is founded mostly in rumors and misinterpretation. So much of what is circulated is tidbits of info taken out of context. The whole Lupus-Imaging deal is old news. This same rumor came about on Photo.net when it first happened about a year or so ago. They bought the marketing rights for existing Agfa stock coated prior to their demise. Some of it has expiration dates up till 2010 (at least for the B+W films) which has led to rumors that someone is still making it. They are strictly a marketing and wholesale compay and have no ability to manufacturer emulsions whatsoever, nor are they tasking it out to another party. I don't see anything on their site http://www.lupus-imaging-media.com/content/view/13/26/lang,en/ that mentions the actual making of Agfa products. There was also a thread either on here or Apug about the Korean company that bought at least some of Agfa's coating equipment to manufacture film to be used for non photo purpses. This makes it difficult to restart production in Agfa's existing plant I would think. The latest rumblings involving another entity taking up production of Agfa films/papers is only a pipe dream at the moment and I haven't heard about any serious steps taken to make this happen (not that I would be privy to such info anyway.) At any rate there is little or no hard evidence of Agfa's return to the market at this point.

> I don't see anything on their site http://www.lupus-imaging-media.com/content/view/13/26/lang,en/ that mentions the actual making of Agfa products.

 

As I said above, not on the English site. They say so on the German site. "herstellen lassen" means "let manufacture/produce" - in German there is no difference between these words as perhaps in English (the egg example above). I suppose - as most Germans speak better German than English - that the German content on the website is the relevant and intented content. Of course cutting down film and winding up on spools is a kind of production/manufacture. But why not telling "we bought the last batches of film, we will cut it down and sell it, and if the last one is sold, we plan to sell another film under the Agfa label"? I think the information on the (German) site is misleading, and that is which I do not like.

I wonder if this site will still exist in two years. I wonder if in two years someone still bothers to put his Agfa sticker on some bottom-line Chinese made digicam and sell it. I wonder if consumers will run for films with Agfa label containing Lucky film. Agfa is dead, what we see are just the last reflexes.

Sorry Roland, I don't speak German so I didn't have any knowledge of what that part of the site was saying. At any rate I agree with you that the cutting and packaging of old Agfa stock can hardly be called the "manufacturing" of such a product. I suppose the only hope for reviving Agfa is for one of the eastern bloc countries to slap the Agfa logo on one of their products in the same way that the Rollei, Voightlander and Contax trademarks have been passed around as mere marketing terms since the end of the original companies years ago. However, just like those names, the original entity that was Agfa is gone for good.

IMO I think it's GREAT ! To expand on Joe's link a bit: This one takes you to the current Agfa film product line produced by Lupus. http://www.lupus-imaging-media.com/content/blogcategory/16/31/lang,en/

 

This explains why B&H is offering long dated AGFA Optima and APX and they never seem to run out and I can't tell a difference in the quality between the old vs. new agfa and neither can my editors. :>))

Take it light. Mark

Mark, you're joking, right?

I guess Mark missed the jist of posts by myself and others. Consider this: APX films were designed to have a date of expiration 5 years from the time of coating. The last run by Agfa was late 2005 before they went under and films from that run have an expiration date of 2010. I have purchased some rebranded APX 100/400 from Freestyle as well as genuine Agfa branded products from other sources in the aftermath of Agfa's collapse. It is all from that last coating run but I have never seen anything dated past 2010. If someone was actually making it again I would imagine we would have seen expiration dates that go beyond that year.

Daniel,

 

Agfa APX films in 35mm are dated 65 months from manufacture. I got this data from speaking with a sales support engineer from Agfa USA in Ridgefield Park, NJ in late 2003 after rumors surfaced that APX would be discontinued.

Wigwam,

 

I know all about the Korean purchase of the AgfaPhoto plant equipment by the Korean concern. In fact, the factory in Leverkusen is being demolished as we speak...

 

But the assets sold to the Korean outift are not the only infrastructure that is capable of producing APX. AgfaPhoto had smaller scale infrastructure used for research and testing purposes. This had been salvaged.

 

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=21814&page=2

 

Mirko Boddecker is the principal owner of FOTOIMPEX. He doesn't say much, but when he makes a statement it almost invariably proves to be true.

 

Of course, as indicated here, the group is a long way off from restarting APX production and it may not prove to be possible. But there is at least a little hope it could be done.

It would be lovely if Fotoimpex is able to restart Agfa production on any kind of commercial scale. I like Agfa film. I wish him luck. I will be thrilled to stand corrected when I said "Agfa film is gone forever."

 

What I dislike are the breathless announcements that "Agfa is back," when sadly nothing could be further from the truth - at the moment.

 

It reminds me of the endless debates about Rodinal. In order:

 

* Rodinal is gone! What will we do! Woe is us!

 

* Rodinal clones are no good! What will we do! Woe is us!

 

* Rodinal is back, hooray! (this long before it was back, just rumours)

 

* Rodinal is *supposedly* back, but no one has seen it. All lies! (this when a&o really did take over production). Woe is us! What shall we do?

 

* Is the new Rodinal the same as the old Rodinal? I don't think so! Woe is us! What shall we do?

 

* There is no more 'real' Rodinal, woe is us! What shall we do?

 

And etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

 

The biggest hurdle Fotoimpex will have to get over if they do manage to get the smaller line started again is convincing people that it really is Agfa APX film. As per the Rodinal idiocy, first they'll scream with relief that APX is back, then they'll scream with anger that it just ain't the same stuff.

The only irreplaceable Agfa B&W film, in my opinion, was APX 25, which bit the dust long before the company did. I'd be really excited if someone started making that stuff again.

Hey A.R. Try the Efke B&W ISO 25 available from B&H, among others. Process in Rodinal and see what you think compared to the old Agfapan 25.

Mark

hey if i buy agfa off of the german ebay how the hell do i pay for it?i cant read german ; ;