Pentax K10D vs Sony Alpha vs Nikon d80

Ok so a bit of background...

 

I've been a film user for a long time, using mainly a leica m4-2. I mention

this because in looking for a dslr, I'm not yet invested in a certain brand of

lens yet.

 

Out of the current dslrs out there/coming soon, the Pentax K10D, Sony Alpha and

Nikon d80 are all ones that I can afford and the specs are appealing. I shy

away from the canon rebels because a friend of mine had one and I wasn't too

enthralled by it during the time that I played with it.

 

I live in the boonies currently, so the only comparison fondling I've been able

to do was at a circuit city last night. The d80 and Alpha were on display, but

only the Alpha was in working order. The d80 was very dark when I looked

through the viewfinder, also it was a blank window. I didn't see any of the AF

points or anything.

 

I snapped random shots with the Alpha for about 10 minutes, and it was a good

time. It felt good in my hands, and the controls made sense to me, etc. The

extra features on the alpha are very appealing (anti-dust, anti-shake), but I

don't know if they outweigh the amount of noise at higher ISOs. (The high iso

shots shown in the dpreview of the alpha are very noisy.)

 

I'm hoping the K10D lives up to the image in my mind. Again, the extra features

(anti-shake, weather seals) make it very appealing, and at this point I think it

may be at the top of my list. They had an older pentax at circuit city, which

felt alright, but I'm not sure if it is indicative of the new one coming out.

 

Now the d80. The preview full size images taken with the d80 that were on

Nikon's site were very impressive. However, the Nikon doesn't have any of the

extra features that the other 2 do. I guess that is a hinderance in my mind.

 

As far as lenses go, I'm planning on getting the kit lens, whichever it may be,

and a fast 35mm or 50mm equivalent.

 

So my question is: which of these 3 dslrs and why?

 

Thanks!

Of the three, my vote would be for the Pentax. For the money, I think it offers the best value with the best features. And Pentax Pancake lenses are oh so appealing for a light kit.

 

However, I've not seen any sample images yet from independant sources, so it's a recommendation with an asterisk.

"The d80 was very dark when I looked through the viewfinder, also it was a blank window. I didn't see any of the AF points or anything."

 

- you explained all. This is not only optical, but also electronic viewfinder with overlays and lighting. Did you turn the Power ON? Was the battery in the camera fully charged? If you did not turn the camera on? why would you expect to see anything beyond what you had seen ?

 

Get back to the store and request demo when camera can take pictures.

To expand on Frank's reply, the LCD overlay in Nikon DSLRs (which shows the focus points) is dark without power. The finder will brighten considerably once the power is on.

The D80 probably had no power and the lens was stopped down, which is why the viewfinder was dark.

 

When you get a DSLR you are buying into a system. I see a lot of people who only go by specs and think that tells the whole story. Available glass should be a huge factor in your buying decision.

 

I tell people to choose either a Canon or a Nikon system because of the huge support both in first party but also in thrid party hardware and software. Now I am not saying that Sony or Pentax won't ever be on the same level as Canon or Nikon, but they have to prove it first. Pentax has a long photo history and I am sure they can be a good system over time, but I don't see them ever getting to the level of Canon or Nikon.

 

As cool as the Pentax and the Sony look now...they will be overshadowed by other cameras very soon.

David, unless something has changed, Nikon is Sony as far as cameras are concerned. Without Sony sensors, Nikon would not have much to offer. Pentax may be tied to Sony as well. Sony threw down the 10mp challenge that Canon and Nikon answered. Many of us are eagerly awaiting Sony's next move. Sould be a good one. You have to keep your eye on the two ton gorilla. You under estimate Sony.

Two thoughts:

 

1/ You may want to consider the Canon 30D instead of the Rebel.. it is far more intuitive camera to use

 

2/ Of the big 4, given that you've been happy shooting with a Leica, the Pentax K10D would appear to be the best model. I dont think you need any of the extreme lenses that make the Canikon systems stand out - and the Pentax system has a long heritage as being well designed.

 

In your shoes, I'd get the Pentax.

 

Vandit

See also:

 

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00I7wX&unified_p=1

Robert

 

I know that the sensor is made by Sony, but Sony is not the only sensor manufacturer that Nikon can work with.

 

Sony also has their hand in many cookie jars, where Nikon is only involved with optics/photography and imaging. Sony has a history of dropping a product line when things become unprofitable. Rembember the Clie?. Sony also loves to have 100% control over accessories like memory, cables etc with their products by making them propritary. While the Alpha uses CF cards now, you can bet they will be Memory Stick only in the next version.

 

I hope Sony and Pentax well...but I am sticking with Nikon.

I owned and loved Nikon SLR gear for thirty years, along side with Leica M gear. When the

DSLR world beckoned four years ago, I was not so enamored of the Nikon bodies and

needed to update all my lenses anyway. I'd already sold my Leica M gear for a Hasselblad

SWC and 500CM kit, so the field was wide open.

 

At that time, I chose the Canon 10D and a complement of top notch Canon lenses. My only

complaint and reservation about that kit is that I found it rather large and heavy to truck

around, and finding an ultrawide lens which would give me both super quality and my

desired 90 degree field of view across the diagonal proved impossible without spending a

lot of money.

 

At the turn of 2005, I decided to try the Pentax system. They'd recently released the *ist

DS body and the DA14mm lens was said to be very good. The size and weight was very

appealing, the price was such that I could afford both body and lens for less than the

Canon 14mm lens. I bought a bunch of older Pentax lenses at the same time ... I had no

prior experience with Pentax SLR gear, had only heard that their lenses were very good.

The Pentax surprised me ... within a week I pretty much stopped using the Canon

completely.

 

In the past 19 months, I've sorted out a complete Pentax kit, sold off almost all my Canon

gear, and have had no complaints or issues even with the low-end DS body as a base. The

Pentax lenses, particularly the primes in the range from 14mm to 135mm, are super: I find

their imaging qualities very much akin to what I loved with the Leica M lenses in the past.

The K10D's added resolution, anti-shake, image processing and other benefits are exactly

what I've been waiting for: I've put one on pre-order and can't wait to get my hands on it.

 

Comparing the K10D on spec against the D80 and A100 ... it looks to be on par if not

better than either, with some things plus and minus of course. It's very hard to make a

judgement without being able to pick the cameas up and work with them side by side. If I

had a large investment in Nikon AF lenses at this point the D80 would have priority, and

the same is true if I had a lot of Minolta AF mount lenses. Having an investment in Pentax

lenses that I know I like, the K10D is the only sensible choice.

 

Godfrey

As a Leica user, I assume you value a bright viewfinder and good primes; Pentax wins in both categories. Pentax has what many consider the best kit lens as well, although some don't like it. See:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06182/702575-96.stm

Thanks for all of the prompt responses!

 

As far as the d80 goes, it didn't have any battery and I didn't realize it needed power for the viewfinder to show properly. Guess I need to get used to a few things in digitalland...

 

My gut is saying pentax right now, so I guess I have to be patient to see what the future holds when it is actually available. I'll also check out the canon that was mentioned.

 

I will probably post some more questions in response to this soon.

 

Thanks again!

Along the lines of the Canon 30D, you may want to consider 20D, the previous version still available in some stores for less money. I mention this particularly because the 30D is in a different price range than the cameras you had listed.

 

Also the 20D/30D will lack weather sealing, anti-shake and anti-dust.

 

The 20D/30D may also be in a different size class, though not a large difference, it is probably noticeable compared to the 3 cameras you did list.

It is short-sighted to shop for "features" - a "Consumer Reports" kind of approach. You need to take a broader view.

 

Think of buying into a system, composed of various bodies, lenses and accessories. Think of the longevity of the marque and its history. There's someone willing to buy nearly anything, but as you are starting out, you should take the first step carefully. It gets expensive to change courses once set.

 

If you buy the Nikon, you buy into an enormous system. Nearly any lens made since 1964 will fit the D80 (though not necessarily use the TTL meter). If you tire of the D80, you can move up to a D200 or a D2h/x/xs and use the same lenses.

 

The Pentax has a long history of being a good camera, cheaper than the comparable Nikon (or Hasselblad). They also have a history of changing lines without regard to reverse (or future) compatability. Sony is, so far, a one-trick pony in the DSLR world. What does Sony know about lenses?

 

Automatic dust removal is a gimmick. How effective it is, I don't know. I do know that dust is not an overwhelming problem with my Nikons. If I keep the lenses and bag clean, I only need to remove dust every two months or so, and it takes all of 10 minutes, including preparation and cleanup. In dusty Spain last summer, I cleaned the sensors twice in a three week period.

.

 

Geesh it would be nice if this kind of thread appeared through the view of the [Pentax / Samsung] forum AND through the view of the [Nikon] forum AND through the view of the [sony / Minolta / Konica] forum ... and so on -- if only there was an auto content analysis lister here at photo.net!

 

So, if I said to photo.net, "... show me Pentax discussions ..." this would be in the list. And if I said "... show me Nikon discussions ..." this would appear ?

 

And I know about the [search] feature, but I'm talking about so-called "forum" listings, of which THIS thread is a PERFECT CROSS FORUM example!

 

I think the old hard-wired forum idea is overdue for an upgrade to a dynamic thread listing by CONTENT in spite of the original poster's thoughts of that forum to pick at first. I know, I know, [photo.net site feedback] ...

 

Click!

 

Love and hugs,

 

Peter Blaise peterblaise@yahoo.com Minolta Rokkor Alpha DiMage Photographer http://www.peterblaisephotography.com/

<i>.."The Pentax has a long history of being a good camera, cheaper than the comparable

Nikon (or Hasselblad). They also have a history of changing lines without regard to reverse

(or future) compatability." ...</i>

<br><br>

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Nearly every Pentax SLR lens made, from M42 screw

mount to the present, is useable on the Pentax DSLR bodies (an adapter is necessary for

M42 screw mount to K-mount bayonet, of course). Pentax 645 and 6x7 lenses are also

useable with an adapter. There are some constraints to metering

options and operating modes depending upon the specific lens/mount being used, but

TTL metering is supported for all of them.

<br><br>

Far as I've been able to determine, Pentax has the largest body of compatible older lenses

available for its DSLR line.

<br><br>

Godfrey

Having used OIS now for two years parrallel with a non-OIS camera I wouldn't buy a camera without it and incorporating it into the body makes sense particularly when I read that Sony have tweaked it to equivalent of five stops from the three stops I have. Neither will I ever have the cash to go down the path of having each lens fitted with OIS. While I enjoy using the non-OIS camera I do feel limited by a concern about the shutter speed I am using, except when working with a tripod. So it is a choice between Pentax and Sony and I have products and experience from both suppliers already to favourably influence my choice.

<<Sony is, so far, a one-trick pony in the DSLR world. What does Sony know about lenses?>>

 

Everything that Minolta knew, that's what Sony knows about lenses. The Sony DSLR is compatible with the Minolta lens mount and has a line of lenses available. Furthermore, Carl Zeiss is also making lenses that fit the Sony/Minolta mount.

.

 

Earlier: "... What does Sony know about lenses? ..."

 

Almost everything you watch may have been filmed through a Sony camera for digital video. Sony's been making digital cameras, and therefore has been responsible for their lenses since .. .when? Mid 1980's?

 

Sony also has invested in Tamron - maker of an SLR lens mount OLDER than Nikon's, and maker of the world's most popular and award winning lenses -- the 28-200/300mm series.

 

Sony also has Carl Zeiss in their factories.

 

Now Sony has Minolta, the FIRST Japanese company to make their own lenses from scratch(!), so to speak, multi coating and all.

 

Anyway, NO ONE OWNING A Minolta / Konica Minolta Alpha / Dynax / Maxxum SLR or DSLR or Sony Alpha DSLR is at a loss for superlative lenses new and used.

 

Ya wanna fight? Fight fair and offer one-to-one comparisons to ANY lens made by ANY one else and you'll find something comparable in an Alpha-mount.

 

Of course, you'll also find some Alpha-mount lenses that no one else has any equivalent for, just as Nikon or Canon or Pentax also make some unique lenses. None of these lens makers are better or worse than the others.

 

Sigma, Tamron, Cosina, even Samyang/Phoenix/Vivitar ... okay, some compromises MAY be in reverse engineered lenses, but Tamron usually pays licensing agreements and is more compatible than even some manufacturer lenses!

 

The challenge for contributors here it to help each other make appropriate choices, and questions like "... What does Sony know about lenses? ..." are GREAT conversation STARTERS, not enders, eh? ;-)

 

Click!

 

Love and hugs,

 

Peter Blaise peterblaise@yahoo.com Minolta Rokkor Alpha DiMage Photographer http://www.peterblaisephotography.com/

 

PS - I KNEW this thread should have been cross-posted!

It's all about whether the sensor on the K10D works as well as advertised; if so, the Pentax is a no-brainer. You can't beat the range of lenses that will meter on it.

.

 

If you don't NEED "the range" but just need specific lenses, especially 3-rd party lenses, then other camera systems may be worth checking out, also. No one maker has a lock on "best of breed" -- anyway, as mentioned, the only goal is to HELP each other make appropriate choices, so even if Pentax made 20,000 DIFFERENT lenses, the challenge is to see if ANY of them match the photographer's needs ... so ... ?

 

Earlier: "... As far as lenses go, I'm planning on getting the kit lens, whichever it may be, and a fast 35mm or 50mm equivalent ..."

 

Now, tell me, WHICH manufacturer falls deficient in THAT series? Hmm?

 

The Samsung kit lens, made by Pentax Vietnam, was praised my PopPhoto magazine as The highest quality (optically) of ANY kit lens they have ever tested -- kudos to Pentax Vietnam!

 

I guess this is NOT a lens thread, after all.

 

Earlier: "... I'm hoping the K10D lives up to the image in my mind. Again, the extra features (anti-shake, weather seals) make it very appealing, and at this point I think it may be at the top of my list. They had an older Pentax at circuit city, which felt alright, but I'm not sure if it is indicative of the new one coming out ..."

 

Since ALL gear can be bought with return privileges, I say get The one you are feeling connected with and enjoy, and return it in 14 days if it surprises you in a bad way.

 

I also download and read The entire owner's manual before purchase, and that may help you feel comfortable with one or The other.

 

Click!

 

Love and hugs,

 

Peter Blaise peterblaise@yahoo.com Minolta Rokkor Alpha DiMage Photographer http://www.peterblaisephotography.com/

Well let's hope Sony does better with Minolta then Minolta did.

I read that Pentax K10D sensor is made by Samsung and not by Sony since its dimensions are different to that of Nikon D200. First, I would wait until some tests was made of the K10D. All three brands seems to be innovative with new lenses in different ways. Pentax with wide angle zooms and some ,not very fast, primes. Nikon with wide range zooms and Sony with two very fast portraiture lenses and a medium slow 16-80mm zoom of expected very high quality. In my opinion, should the kind of lenses you prefer to use play a major part in the decision of brand. However, the poor ISO performance of Sony A100 is annoying.

I'd vote Nikon... oops, I already did about a year ago when I bought my first DSLR. They are rock solid, reliable, and the lenses are great. The images from the 10Mp sensor are extraordinary. But no one is going to convince you on brand. The D80 has a mirror lock up function, and that's probably what happened. If the camera is "off", the finder will be darker, but not blacked out. Which system can you really grow with? I'd put my money on Nikon or Canon. For that matter, why not buy a new M8?

I'm looking for an SLR soon also and of these I like the D80 best (used it) but I haven't used the others yet so I'm basing this mostly off of bias and reading. The D80 is basically a D200 with a lower price tag :)

Nikon is very well known for their SLR cameras for a reason.