Leica M8 Dealer Information

At that price, with still a 1.33 crop, I think I'd be embarrassed walking around with one,

and certainly too afraid to take it out much on my assignments. Leica has long been the

choice of working professionals for its qualities, but this seems to have fully entered the

glam market. Ultimately Leica has made its name (and can command its pricing) because it

has captured so much history, because it's an inconspicuous workhorse with practical

benefits for professionals. aside from speed of transmitting photos, I don't see the

advantage with an M8 for professional work, and see a few disadvantages. If you use Leica

professionally, you probably have the luxury of time. If you have time, you can shoot film

for far, far less money. It sounds like a great camera, but I hope Leica continues to

highlight its real world, professional advantages. To me that's what makes Leica Leica, and

not a wealthy person's toy. Fifty years from now, will the $6,000 M8 be the usable,

desirable classic that the M3 is today? I've already spent my $6000+ on my Nikon DSLR

system, which offers me far more practical range.

 

I wonder if the new 17mm will cover full frame? I can't see why it wouldn't, and that's

exciting for film users, too.

 

I do suppose I'll benefit from the existance of the M8, as Leica can now claim it's a major

player in both high-end film and digital. My film camera isn't a dinosaur, it's now part of a

complete film/digital system. It's no longer a "dead end" system.

 

This said, I can say I don't want an M8. I want two...

Flickr and Photo.net have links where you can purchase a 'pro account' for someone as a gift. I would like to add a request for the moderators to add a link to the subscribers icon that would say 'Purchase a Gift Leica M8 for this Member'

 

... or something like that.

Tony Rose (Leica Dealer in U.S.)<a href=http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24248&highlight=Tony+Rose> posted on RFF</a> asserting a $4,995 US price for the M8. <p>

 

Andy referred to two other 10 mpxl cameras. I wouldn't be shocked to see a 3rd or even a 4th coming out. Keep in mind that Canon at the moment offers no camera as a real 'rival' to the D200. How long will that be the case? Moreover, Olympus and Pentax are due/overdue/long overdue (take your pick) for introduction of their next pro or near-pro dslr's. Perhaps one or both will offer something ? <p>

 

But whether at $4,995 US, or L 3,500 (UK), or whatever, the M8 is going to occupy a place in the market that it will in a sense have all to itself. Priced well above the 10 mpxl crop-factor dslr's and even well above the Canon full-frame camera (the 5D, a 12.8 mpxl body), and at more than double the cost of the Epson RD-1s, the M8 will simply not appeal to the "most-bang-for-the-buck buyers" of digital gear. <p>

 

Memo to Pete: listening to the old Spiro Agnew tapes again ? (Nattering nabobs of negativism .... )

I expect is will be $4995 + US tax and maybe something like ﾣ3495 including UK VAT. Compared to the cost of an R9/DMR combo, it's a (relative) bargain.

 

I daresay there will be some people who buy them and immediately put them on ebay hoping to sell at a premium, in the same way there's a market for some new cars over list price.

 

If the new wide angle is 17mm that's a bit of a disappointment, but depends on cost and weight. It will be interesting to see what they do about finders as well.

 

I'm in, and my lenses are going off to Solms next week to be striped/coded/zebra'd.

Is there going to be the equivalent of a Leica CL or CLE?

Don't forget the lenses!

 

If you have a wide range of Leitz lenses, $5,000 or $6,000 isn't a lot to spend to be able to use those lenses for digital imaging. If the sensor works well with the 21mm Elmarit and everything longer, that is not much money, considering that to move to Canon or Nikon for a system will cost you a lot more than the cost of a body. With most of Canon's L lenses running over $1,000 each, it adds up pretty quickly.

 

A 5D with 24mm f:1.4, 35 f:1.4, 50mm f:1.4, 85mm f:1.8 and 135mm f:2 will set you back about $7,000.

Nice one Rene! <P><B>: )</b>

Andy - "Given that by the time it comes out there will be 2 10MP CCD chip DSLR's on the market, the Nikon D200 and the Sony Alpha, that the Alpha will have Zeiss primes available (not that it matters any)"

 

Well, if you count CMOS, you've got at least 4: 10mp Nikon D200 and Sony A100, 12mp Nikon D2X and Canon 5D. Not to mention the 10mp Pentax that is supposed to be launching at PhotoKina with the same sensor as the D200 and A100.

 

"As there are many London and Manhattan orthodontists and bankers around"...

 

The orthodontists will have rubber bands small enough for Rene. ;)

Peter

 

.... the 5D example is exactly what my personal dilemma is. I know that the M8 is what I

want to own and use, along side my MP & M3, rather than a $5-7,000 of DSLR. Designers

willing, the camera should give any DSLR a run for the money, within its RF capability.

 

However, at this price, a Hasselblad CFV back starts to look attractive as a means to bring

existing owned and cheap to buy used accessories to the forefront. The CFV would bring

greater advantage due to the cost and inconvenience of 120 processiing as compared to

the beautiful FF performance of my Leica film cameras.

 

So pricing is sensitive as far as I'm concerned, but not for the reasons mentioned above.

 

VAT is important, but many professionals are VAT registered, myself included, and can

claim this back from the Government. Leaves a net cost of GBP2978, or US$5,500.

I find all this comparison of a potental M8 to current DSLR's foolish. Someone who buys a MP or M7 is usually not thinking of a Nikon F5 or Canon EOS as an alternative. The Leica M is a unique instrument.

 

People who have Leica M glass (going back to 1954) will buy a M8 if it makes sense to THEM, a DSLR probably doesn't come into the decision.

"I find all this comparison of a potental M8 to current DSLR's foolish. Someone who buys a

MP or M7 is usually not thinking of a Nikon F5 or Canon EOS as an alternative. The Leica M

is a unique instrument."

 

We all agree, King David hath spoken the Law.

 

I thought it was a tool for making pictures, just like the others, but different. Ya' learn

summat every day. Brown bread is good fer ya'.

You could bring a 1DS and a pair of f/2.8 zooms on a cycling tour of Tuscany, and you could use a 30-lb sledgehammer to put up a picture hook. Like you said, they're all just tools. There's no law that governs how selective you must be in their use.

>"VAT at 17.5%"

>1.175x=$6480

 

 

Sorry guys, but $6480 for a digital M is a little nuts, although there will be plenty of

people who will buy one.

 

I have more Leica gear than I care to admit in polite company, but even for a diehard user

like me that's a little too crazy.

 

Feli

 

 

www.elanphotos.com

I think the best thing about these prices is that it will allow Zeiss plenty of room to bring out there own dRF. A Zeiss Ikonis 60% of a M7 pricewise? That would be about $3000 for the Zeiss?

 

I'm not wedded to the FF sensor idea. If they can come up with a 10-12MP with good DR in a CL sized camera, I'm all for it. Even if they come up with a dM lens mount, that would allow the use of old M and Scremount lenses with adaptors. I saw somewhere once that camera companies make more off the lenses than onthe bodies. New digitally optimized lens mount with capapbility for Av and Tv modes. Sounds interesting. Let's remember Leica broke NEW ground with the 35mm format and smaller cameras. The brand DNA is for innovation and excellence, not sticking with by-gone standards.

 

Mark

An M digital camera is very nice, but I think I rather would buy a good manual digicam sized camera with RF/viewfinder, traditional controls and good low light capability. Then they can solder a lens to it, be it a fixed focal length in the 35-50mm area or short zoom.

 

I can even take a Bessa T style camera with separate RF and big brightline viewfinder and a fixed 35mm lens.

 

It cannot really be all that hard, can it? Though looking at the current product offerings, it obviously is..

>Let's remember Leica broke NEW ground with the 35mm format and smaller cameras. The brand DNA is for innovation and excellence, not sticking with by-gone standards.

 

That's the old LEITZ you're talking about. The Leica M has been stuck in a time warp for at least 30 years. Those lenses deserve a far better body than the current M or the M8.

 

A waiting time of more than 1 year for a digital camera which isn't cutting edge even in 2006, coupled with their semi-annual price increases, sounds like a perfect death spiral to me.

 

Solms should hire Mr Kobayashi as their CEO if they want to survive in the so-called "luxury market" which is, for them, even smaller than their traditional fan base.

Solms should hire Mr Kobayashi as their CEO if they want to survive in the so-called "luxury market" which is, for them, even smaller than their traditional fan base.

 

Fred, do you come on here just to bash Leica? It seems that's about all we hear from you. That above statement makes very little sense. Since when has Cosina been in the "luxury" market? The cameras and lenses that are their own (under the Voigtlander name)

 

These are low price items designed to offer a low price alternative to Leica (some of these quite good but still low cost items).

 

This is hardly the luxury market. One could say that the ZI manufactured by Cosina is a step up. But these are Zeiss designed items made for Zeiss. Cosina has long been involved in making low cost cameras and low cost lenses. Not luxury items.

 

Your comments about the current Ms and the M8 (which you haven't even seen) are just place silly. Why so much hate for Leica? What has Leica done to you? Why inhabit a Leica Forum?

They'll sell every M8/MD they'll be able to make and they know that, but for my budget I agree with Håkan Thörngren, how about a fixed lens digital rangefinder similar to the old Olympus XA, and maybe along the lines of the recently discontinued Olympus 7070, but with a fixed fast lens around 35/2.0 and rangefinder focusing.

Yeah, I forgot Leica can do no wrong, just like the good old US of A. Any criticism is just mere hatred.

 

Steering Leica back on the right track has nothing to do with good business sense and management, competitive products, realistic pricing and strong marketing. It all depends on your experience in the "luxury market." Guess that's why Bentley, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Lamborghini ... all with decades of experience in the luxury market, had to sell themselves off to foreigners just to survive. I wonder why Leica had to do the same thing, and did it more than once already?

 

If Leica goes the way of the dodo, it's still not their fault. No one's to blame except all those "Leica-bashers."

$4-5,000...hmm..yeah I'd probably end up getting one.

Gary: If you're going to estimate a price in U.S. dollars - do NOT include European VAT. (Or at least include a dose of Digitalin or Adrenalin or some such to prevent heart failures!)

 

This side of the pond we distinguish between what the company is charging, and how much bureaucrats are raking off the top. So taxes are not included in the price (except for auto fuel, for some reason)

 

And U.S. sales taxes run from 0% to 9%: http://thestc.com/STrates.stm

not 17%.

 

------------------

 

I'm buying a Leica M8 because I want a rangefinder. SLRs need not apply - at any price.

 

The M8 has 6 specific features that I like: SD card option in place of Cr*p-Flash; split-image manual focusing; 1.33x (or better) crop; big viewfinder; 10+ megapixels; metal exterior.

 

The only SLR that even vaguely starts to meet all those requirements is a Canon 1DMkII (list price $3999). SD - check, Split-image screen available - check; 1.3x - check; big finder - check; metal - check; 10+ megapixels - ooops!

 

So for a price 20% higher I get: 25% more pixels (10+ vs. 8+); real aperture rings on my lenses; focus-by-thread instead of by-wire; and about 1/3rd the bulk, 1/2 (at least) the weight, and 1/2 the noise (sound, not image noise).

 

Sounds like a good deal to me!

Ooops - correction in Canon's favor: "For a 20% higher price I get 20% more pixels) - basically both the Canon 1D and the Leica M8 cost $475-500 per megapixel.

<i>A 5D with 24mm f:1.4, 35 f:1.4, 50mm f:1.4, 85mm f:1.8 and 135mm f:2 will set you back about $7,000.</i><br><br>

 

Peter - First of all, the 5D has more megapixels and it's full frame. You're saying that for just the price of the M8, you could not only have a better camera body, but also 5 top quality primes to go with it. Hmm, which would I rather have...?

"Gary: If you're going to estimate a price in U.S. dollars - do NOT include European VAT.

(Or at least include a dose of Digitalin or Adrenalin or some such to prevent heart

failures!)"

 

Sorry Andy, heart attacks are not my speciality. I aploogise to anyone who is now

receiveing medication as a result of my posting.

 

HOWEVER, in case you are sitting comfortably, I just checked Robert White in comparison

to B&H. Not confident either are the cheapest source:

 

So RW v BH at $1 = 0.54UKP

 

Leica MP 3275 v 3495

 

50mm f2 1253 v 1495

 

75mm f2 2222 v 2695

 

35mm f1.4 2885 v 3195

 

Kit price RW $9635 v B&H $10880

 

So it appears that, pre sales tax, UK pricing is a little lower on Leica. We then have 17.5%

and you have 0-9% (?).

 

I can recover the 17.5% VAT and charge the net to my business and reduce tax liabilities

by 20%, methinks.

 

Adding the tax back in, that means a bottom line cost on my business bank account of

$2,383, but need to check with my accountant.

 

Sorry if anyone is now turning green. :-)

The last two lines of the above posting was of course was a reference to the M8 at UKP

3500 inc VAT. Prior info was to establish a perspective on trans-Atlantic pricing

comparison.

 

Gary