a day before Republican National Convention

Just to clarify that my objection is to the watering down and misuse of the word 'Orwellian' nothing else.

 

Protest away and photograph it all whoever the protest is against.

Who are those big men knocking at my door?

Good for you Maria, what you are documenting is very important, grant would have thought that Walker Evan's work sucked too!!!!

tough crowd...in & out...

>Jeff (www.spirer.com) ?, aug 30, 2004; 12:27 a.m.

 

>I was supposed to shoot a show last week but missed it...someone got tossed

through the window. Cops never showed for some reason. Last death metal show I

shot, 2/3 of the people went in one mass into the bar, the barmaid was grabbing stuff

everywhere to keep things from flying. I thought my gear was going to get trashed

and spent the rest of the show from the stage side. Good thing the band spent half

the time pushing back into the crowd.

 

>Carniciera, Copyright 2004 Jeff Spirer

 

Yawn. Guess you aren't old enough to have been in punk shows in the 80s... Your

gear never would have survived. But whatever, your buttrock pix fill some need. I

guess.

Jon, which 80's (I presume US) punk bands are you referring to?

There are doers, there are talkers.

 

Maria, I like them and be careful out. I would have been there if I live in NYC. Best of luck.

pictures from the land of the free!!! looks like nazi-germany 1933

The two are nice documentary shots, Maria. The first has a more timeless air (it could be from the sixties) while the second really takes you to the place where really intense stuff is going on... and it's therefore more impressive. Thanks for posting and keep them coming!

The biggest tragedy in the US is that over 100,000,000 people (or more than 50 percent of eligible voters) didn't vote in the last elections. They're the ones who doth protest too much, methinks. Get off your arses and register to vote, whether it's for Bush or Kerry (and there's really no difference between them).

Grant, you'd better watch what you say about the Code Pink ladies. We can get feisty. I have all of about 20 photographs :-( Was busy with other things. I shot some B&W & I brought my TLR with me & did some color with that one. It was interesting using that camera in a "street" environment & while far from stealthy or invisible (draws attention, aamof), I had fun with it during the few moments I took to photograph with it. I am going to go out after this week & work with it in a steet setting some more.

 

There were far more than 100,000 people there. I was at the March 20 march & there were more than 100,000 people at that one & this was much larger. Started marching at 11 & didn't stop until 5:15 so it was darned big. It was overall quite peaceful. Central park was too. There won't be an accurate count released as everyone has a biased reason to release numbers that are too high or too low. What I tend to do is get the protest organizer numbers & then the police numbers & take the average of the two. I figure that is most realistic.

Ed, sorry I didn't respond to your comments until now...only just got back to the thread since last night. Hey, I like what I see in the second shot, which to me has a lot more visual interest than the first one, to be honest. The motion and the point of near sharpness are visually interesting. Would there be things I wished were a bit different? Sure. I'd have liked seeing the sign at lower right be a bit sharper. However, I don't think that makes the photo worthless. Sorry for liking the image. I should learn that not only do we all have to post great photos (whatever that may mean) but we should all maintain the same rigid views about what a good photograph is. God forbid we ever have individual points of view.

 

I think you all are slamming this photo for having an agenda that Maria has made no overture about having. Your critiques (especially Grant's rather harsh and ungracious statements) seem to assume that Maria was making a statement about the bad ol' police cracking down on the poor oppressed protesters. I don't see anything that Maria posted or said anything at all that makes such a claim or moral judgment about either the police or the protesters. The only cliches in the photos are the ones y'all have manufactured in your heads.

 

And Grant, it may be that some of us need to get out of the stix, but you, dude, probably could use a few days away from NYC. Sounds like life in NYC is making you pretty jaded. Something that will change the world??? C'mon. There's nothing in photography that ain't been done before in one form or another. Sorry, but to think otherwise is to completely delude yourself.

<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons6/76.gif">

Intelligent response, in a Warner Brothers Cartoon kinda way.

Maria, I like the photos, but I think thats because I know the when & where & can personally connect. If I detatch myself, they really don't say "protest" all that much. The first one has very little in it to connect it to a protest. The second one has the signs, but those could be from a zealot in a park. There is nothing to tie these photos to a protest or civil disobedience. The photos themselves are good, but the content in the photos is where the problem lies.

<i>Who are those big men knocking at my door?</I>

<p>

Are there two of them?

<p>

Are they wearing white shirts, neckties, and backpacks?

<p>

Did they arrive on bicycles?

<p>

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

<p>

And do not answer your door...

<p>

(If nothing else, it will be good practice for the grannies, kids, and 'tweens who will descend like a cloud, bearing "Awake!" and "Watchtower", as they implore you to engage them in "bible study".)

Andy, no need to apologize for anything. I was just curious about as to why these were 'excellent' shots and felt that I might be missing something here. Only a couple of comments have even addressed the issue of 'why', I never even realized that courage has direct bearing on image quality. Guess shots of erupting volcano's...ah, never mind.

 

Your comment of 'God forbid we ever have individual points of view.' Is interesting...if everyone just wants to stand in a circle and pat each other on the back over mediocre images that's fine too I suppose, though not very useful. On the other hand maybe we should just accept what were dealt and not question anything

 

I'm familiar with the quality of Maria's work and truthfully I was expecting more when I initially saw the post. Do you honestly think these shots would stand out in a pile of other protest shots?

 

One of the problems I see with PNet is that very few have any experience with crit's and immediately take offense and go into a tizzy over any non-favorable comments. It would be interesting to hear what Maria honestly thinks of these two.

Agreed, Ed. I apologize because I now realize there was an unnecessary stridency in my response to you. No offense intended, and I hope none taken.

Andy, like I said no apologies.... No offense taken. Seems to me like the best forum for a crit is still a studio wall with a twelve pack on the floor.

is that an invite?

ed, I will respond to your critique as soon as you learn how to write a critique -- so far you just said that you don't like it. that's my little nephew's favorite phrase but he's nine.

sounds like as good an excuse as any to evade the question...

Hell, I don't need any excuse to plow through a 12-pack. If its gonna be three or more of us, though, let's make it a case.

the problem with protest shots is that they all sort of look the same. gets repetetive tiring pretty quickly. guess the same can be said for parades, fairs, etc. hard to establish your own point of view.. ofcourse there are exceptions, but very rare.

Mike, Trevor is right. You are truly clueless, even if you are enthusiastic. :-) Moderators, please don't let this thread become another mindless Bush bashing fest.