timlaux

Thanks kmac. I played with the colors and black point a little in Lightroom. (This is a DSLR scan.) i think this is at f/8, thought a little more would be in focus but ultimately I don’t mind the soft background so much. Always appreciate a critique. The real exposure is actually lighter. I kind of liked the look of darker shadows. Usually I like light shadows, but thought it was a little more interesting darker. But my style of edit is constantly in flux, so who knows how I’ll re-envision this in the future.

Thanks again everyone. Well, I think the few photos I took came out alright, for not knowing what I'm doing...and especially with my "slow" lens.

Hi all, For those who were following my recent Mamiya lens repair saga, I'm back at it again, ready to inevitably ruin another piece of gear. (Sarcasm, with a hint of truth.) My (new to me) Mamiya C220 came with some holes/damage to the outer bellows, which was no problem for the wide/standard lenses which don't need much bellows extension, but I since picked up a cheap 135mm lens from my local camera store, I'll need to extend the bellows almost fully. As far as I can tell, the inner bellows are in good shape. So, this might be a silly project to get involved with, but I'd like to know if anyone has any experience replacing the outer bellows on these. Apparently, there used to be a Mamiya users group with great detailed instructions, but that group is since lost. There are bellows available on eBay (of seemingly good quality) that I'm willing to try. If you've ever done this repair, would you mind sharing the steps? Or, if you've done this repair, would you mind sharing some of the most important parts that a novice would likely get wrong the first time around? Thank you! Tim

Thanks orsetto. I wonder if I have the "hair trigger" problem that you suggested. In general, yes, I usually do apply light "pre"-pressure to shutter release on all cameras I've shot on, mainly to avoid camera shake. It is tempting to leave it on multi, but obviously we know the potential problem with that. I developed the roll today. So far the negatives look promising. I took 3 at 0.5sec and 1sec, 4 at 1/30 and 1/60, and 3 at 1/250 and 1/500. Hopefull that's a good test. Oh...and I got 2 blank exposures! I think that was from me tricking the camera into thinking I took a shot, when I didn't. Exposure looks pretty good so far. We'll see when I scan them. Thanks!

Thanks kmac and andy. My ignorance is glowing. I "cleaned" off the greasy stuff on the cocking ring the first time I opened it. 2 of 4 set screws that hold the front elements in place, into the figure-eight plastic piece, no longer have any plastic to thread into. I'm a little worried I'll have no set screws left if I open it again! Sounds like I ought to. I took my first roll of 12 exposures yesterday. They are in the Paterson tank now, will develop later. I feel like I'm messing up something with the order of operations for the film advance, shutter, and single/multi switch. A few times the shutter lever seemed locked and/or I couldn't cock the shutter and I wonder if I goofed up something. I don't know. Hoping it's operator error and not the lens. If the pictures come out alright, I think I'll open it one more time and put a little 15-40W oil on the ring. Fingers crossed. Still feel like I put too much oil on the pivots! Interesting ideas about the aerosol cleaner. Anything I hit with CRC, I cleaned with IPA after, hopefully removing any residue or oxidation layer..hopefully..

Interesting discussion! An update on my project. Yesterday, I disassembled the 65mm for the 4th time. I noticed, after my 3rd reassembly, that the shutter leaves were getting stuck about 10-20% of the time, and that they were most likely sluggish...so no good for fast shutter speeds. I started with thoroughly flushing the shutter leaves with 99% "electronics grade" IPA. I found that using Q-tips/cotton swabs just resulted in strands of cotton getting caught on the edges of the shutter leaves. So, I opted to use Kimwipes (popular in electronics and chemistry labs). I cut them into smaller pieces so they would fit in the lens barrel. I use the Q-tips to apply light pressure to the Kimwipes. Kimwipes are virtually lint free. This seems to work okay, but still jamming occasionally. So, I went against my better judgement and sprayed a little CRC QD electronics cleaner (from auto parts store), and worked the shutter several dozen times. According to some other forum discussions, this stuff is safe on plastics and lens coatings. (We'll see when I develop the film.) The QD stuff is definitely a much better solvent than IPA. However, it still seemed to leave a few rainbow splotches, so I did one final round of IPA and Kimwipes. It's now firing 100% again! Next, I removed the slow speed mechanism (also for the 4th time), threw it in a container of Naphtha, agitated it for about 2-3 minutes. Then I removed it, liberally sprayed it with CRC QD, hoping the compressed air might dislodge any final pieces of grit. Then, finished off in IPA bathe. I applied a miniscule amount of oil to the pivot points, though I feel that if any of you were to see my work, you'd still think it was too much. I reassembled and...same thing, still running about 1.6-1.7x marked speed. I tried twiddling with the mechanism's two set screws (mainly the top one), but really could not get much change at all. I also experimented with varying the pressure applied from the brass-colored retaining ring upon reassembly, but that didn't seem to have an effect. --- In the process, I some how knocked a "straight spring" (I think) on the left-hand side, near the shutter release lever. I think I moved it back into the right position, but my confidence is not that high. All I know now is that sometimes the shutter will refuse to cock, but once I partially depress the shutter release lever, it sets it loose, and the shutter cocks fine again. Not sure what I might have goofed up there. Regarding oiling the shutter cocking ring, I did not oil it...Where should it be oiled? I suppose the only real option is on the teeth? I'm a little bit hesitant to crack it open again, since it seems to be in a relatively good working state, with a quirk or two, and needing exposure compensation. I just want to shoot now! Thanks everyone.

Understood. I obviously do not possess the gray-beard voodoo rites of camera techs who have been working on these for decades. (Goes without saying.) Do you think there's any dry lube on these shutter leaves from the Mamiya factory? I guess, at this point, I'm willing to accept this lens as an "experiment". If I can get it working 95% again, then great. If not, I'll look for another lens. I thought about the barrel swap idea, but I feel like I'd rather just get a fully working lens, since it seems inevitable that I'll botch that procedure up too. Thanks again.

First off, thank you for the incredibly detailed post. Really appreciate the time you took to share this information. I knew well enough that +1/3 stop is absolutely no problem for color negative these days. Hell, +2 stops is hardly a problem, from the film's perspective. I suppose what drove me to "fix it" was my suspicion that it was a bit gummed up, and probably would only get worse with time. (There's something baked into my personality that gets me into similar situations, time and time again.) After playing with the mechanism, and noting its temperamental nature upon reassembly, I think I understand what you mean about these lens's quirky nature. And, after experiencing these quirks for myself, it's probably a fair assesment to say that this particular copy may never have been better than 10 or 20% accurate!

Thank you. The camera itself is in excellent condition, as far as I can tell. The bellows need to be replaced, although for the 65 and 80mm lens, it’s probably okay because the focus throw is very short, and doesn’t require hardly any bellows extension. The lens is also in great condition, besides the mess I just made for myself. I’d still like to take one more shot at DIY, but in any event, does anyone have a good recommendation for Mamiya TLR lens repair? What rates should I expect? Thank you.

R I meant to reply earlier to the second part. I think a good setup might be an infrared LED and infrared photo-transistor and an oscilloscope if you have one. Although there is infrared radiation everywhere, it'll probably be much easier to distinguish ON vs OFF, compared to using visible light. Sound card would work just as well, just have to be cognizant not to overdrive the input. AFAIK, probably should keep peak voltages <1V (1N4148), so you could probably use back-to-back high speed switching diodes to protect the input stage (acting as a clamp). Might be something worth trying and sharing, if I get around to it!

Thank you. At the very least, I'm going to remove the escapement again, bathe/agitate in Naphtha, maybe hit it with some of that CRC QD electronics cleaner, then finish off in IPA rinse. Then, apply micro droplets of Super Lube PTFE oil. (Super Lube unfortunately changed from metal syringe tip to this fat plastic tip.) Regarding the shutter, Orsetto seems to be in a different camp here, so I'm a bit conflicted. I know IPA did help after I foolishly got Super Lube on the blades, so seemingly more cleaning would help too...but I also feel like I might eat my words on that.

Thank you everyone again. Unfortunately, there appears to be some competing advice here (as there always is on the internet). Orsetto, you are seemingly very well versed in the Mamiya TLR lenses, which I cannot overlook. I'm between a rock and a hard place here, because the lens is "OK" now, but I know it's worse than before. I have the itch to try to make it better, but according to your advice, I'll probably just make it worse. Unfortunately, my brain tends to latch onto things like this, and won't let it go until it's either A. fixed, or B. FUBAR, thereby forcing me to buy a new one. By the way, if I have to buy a new lens, that's okay. It's a shame that a classic Mamiya lens goes to waste, but it's a lesson learned here.:( I wonder why flushing the shutter with Naphtha is so problematic for these shutters? Regarding positioning of the slow speed escapement (via two set screws): I noticed on 1 sec in particular, that the pin that is supposed to(?) contact the timing plate(?) when the shutter is cocked doesn't reach it in this case. For the other speeds, the pin is stopped by the stepping on the plate, but not @ 1 sec. For this reason, I'm surprised adjustment of the 1 sec speed has much to do with seating of the mechanism at all. Maybe there's something else I'm missing. Any words of wisdom on proper positioning of this? Fiddle with it til it's better? Thank you! Yeah, I'm well aware of taking a Youtube tutorial with a grain of salt. However, I had no frame of reference for working on these lenses, so it was a good starting point. And, if you think a pin-head of oil is enough, then sheesh, I probably did put too much oil on there. (Didn't think my little droplets were really much at all.) Thanks a lot.

Thanks again, everyone. I will crack it open again and try with Naptha this time. I have a whole can of it somewhere in the garage. This is basically what I figured, just seemed unlikely because I thoroughly bathed the slow speed mechanism in IPA for quite some time. But I guess as far as solvents go, IPA isn't all that great. Must be a few grains of grit in there, as you say. Now, regarding the shutter. I think in my frustration, I got a little Super Lube on the shutter. I cleaned it with a q-tip and IPA after noticing this, as it was definitely causing the shutter to hang. I think some might still remain. Maybe on the backside of the blades, that I can't see. Side note, is any amount of oil supposed to be on the shutter blades? Are they supposed to run totally dry? (I know most eBay listings say "No oil on shutter/aperture blades" as a good thing, so just making sure.) Can you explain a little more about the shutter cleaning procedure? Where would the Naptha run out of? In what way would running Naptha throughout the shutter make a significant clean up job? I suppose most obviously it will get on the rear lens element, but that can be cleaned by opening the shutter and aperture, in bulb, I think? Thank you all! I thought I was alone on this one, but you all have been very encouraging.

Thank you very much! I’ve seen people in two camps on the lubricant subject and it’s basically exactly as mentioned: Either lightly lube or don’t lube at all. This is the black version. Retrospectively, I shouldn’t have touched it at all. If the exposure is +1/3 stop, so what? That’s almost a good thing for film. (Your tatse may vary.) Interestingly, on 1 second, it seems like the rotational speed is now not so consistent throug the period. Starts fast, gets a little slower, then faster again, then slower. When its running slower, sometimes it even sounds like it might stop! What have I done! I’m comfortable enough taking it apart now, but still feel like every time I open it is an opportunity to make it worse. Does it still sound like an issue with the slow speed escapement? Anything else could be wrong, maybe with shutter triggering? I used IPA, and denatured alcohol to clean. Should be good enough? Thanks!

Hi everyone, I’m new here so hopefully I’m falling in line with the etiquette here. I recently purchases a Mamiya C220 and 65mm f/3.5. Using Audacity on my PC, I measured the shutter speeds. They were running about 1.3x too slow on 1sec up to 1/15sec, which is about the limit of measuring via audio. So, naturally, I tried fixing it after watching a Youtube video which showed the cleaning and light lubrication of the slow speed escapement. But, after seemingly doing everything right, the lens is now running about 1.6-1.7x too slow. Yikes! It also fails to fire every once in a while. Hmmph. The Youtube video mentioned that the timing could be adjusted via two screws, but honestly, re-seating the mechanism (in a slightly different position)had seemingly very little effect on the timing. Does anyone have any other tips about working on these lenses? Any other mechanism that might be related? By the way, just used a few tiny drops of Super Lube PTFE lubricant after cleaning mechanism in isopropyl alcohol. I also tried without lubricating at all, and it was still bad. Thank you!