karenco

I would never enter into another partnership again. I did once and it was the worst decision I ever made. It's taken me years to recover from it. If you already own the business and have the equipment, look into hiring a full time associate who is exclusive to your business instead of taking on a partner who can then claim 1/2 of everything. It's cheaper in the long run.

> Pictage was just him and an employee for a while. <

 

Not sure where you got that information, but it's incorrect.

 

Karen

Quote: "I think professionally you should pay for your own costs up front."

 

I think, professionally, that's wrong. I've never contracted to anyone where I've been made to pay my costs up front. If it's a situation where the client pays for travel, then the client provides a retainer that includes the cost of travel up front. It's SOP for every contractor I know not to front travel money - whether it's photography or any other business.

 

Karen

Of coures they should pay your travel costs up front. Why on earth would you expect to shell out lots of money up front for them? :)

 

Look up all the costs - airfare, rental car, hotel. Add about $100 a day for various and sundry expenses (food, tips, etc.) Add it all together and give them that figure for travel. Tell them that it all needs to be paid 90 days prior to the wedding in order for you to confirm travel arrangements for yourself at the best price.

 

Do NOT let them make the arrangements for you or assure you that they'll put your airfare on their Delta miles or anything else. I've had problems with that too many times. They pay, you make your own arrangements and everything is good.

 

Plan to arrive at least 1 day before the wedding, so budget that into your hotel, car, and food costs.

 

Karen

Todd - I'm late to the party, but here's my opinion, FWIW.

 

I'd say you should go for it. I echo the advice that you need a website to be the tineies bit competitive in todays market. But that doesn't mean you have ot have a top of the line, avant garde website. Bludomain or any number of other places that specialize in websites for creative people can help you out. I believe Bludomain now has HTML based templates that run about $500.

 

A simple website to showcase your work and a couple of inexpensive listings on places like EP-O and so forth should get you all the side business you need or want, based on what you've said here.

 

If I were in your position I'd love to be able to pick and choose the weddings I do for the fun and the extra income, rather than to constantly be having to watch the bottom line. Set your prices at a medium range for your area and just be very descriptive and definite of the style you provide. There are people for every type and style of work - from the most traditional-formal, to the most avant garde Yervant style, to those who just want to produce good solid images for a reasonable price.

 

You can do some great marketing w/out having to spend a lot of money - just a little investment of your time and effort.

 

Good luck to you and feel free to email if you want. I dont' know that I can help much, but I'm willing ot be a sounding board.

 

Oh, and FWIW, I'm 38, been doing this since I was 23, and am looking forward to doing this for another 20+ years! :)

 

Karen

Actually, DPI has NOTHING to do with the size of the image. DPI is a printing term and refers to Dots Per Inch, or the number of droplets of ink per inch that are used to create an image on some kind of media.

 

What you're looking for is the number of PIXELS per inch in an image - or PPI. But the PPI alone is not enough. What you need is the total number of pixels per image.

 

For example.

An image that is 8x10 inches at 300ppi = 2400px by 3000px

Or an image that is 33.33x41.66 inches at 72ppi = 2400px by 3000px

 

So you see ... the ppi is irrelvant unless you know the dimensions of the image. THe two images above are the EXACT SAME in measurement and both will print an 8x10 or larger. The important numbers there are really the measurment of the pixels in the image - 2400px by 3000px. Or 7.2 million square pixels.

 

So if your shot with a Canon 20D (for example) at highest JPEG resolution, natively, right out of the camera, your images are:

 

2336px by 3504px ~or~

48.66 x 32.44 inches at 72ppi ~or~

11.6 x 7.7 inches at 300ppi ~or~

14.0 x 9.3 inches at 250ppi

 

And so on.

 

Karen

Several years ago I went into partnership with a "friend" who was a "capable photographer". It was the worst thing I ever did. he bailed on the business, moved out of the state, left me holding the bag, and then hired a lawyer and tried to get money from me for the studio because he claimed that I was at fault. My advice is don't do it. It will ruin the friendship and possibly ruin your life and your reputation. I'm still dealing with blowback from the situation and it was in 1999 and 2000.

 

Work with someone as a subcontractor and as a friend, but do NOT go into partnership.

 

Karen

My 20mm 2.8 is my go-to lens at receptions. However, there are times that I would like to be wider and even a 16mm isn't wide enough. I'm strongly considering the 10-22, even tho I don't really like zooms. My biggest problem with it is that it's a variable aperture and not very fast (I think it's a 4.5 to 5.6 or something like that).

I have shot weddings with a 103 degree fever. I have shot weddings with a sprained ankle. I know photographers who have shot weddings while in a cast or in a wheelchair after being hit by a car.

 

The ONLY time I have ever missed a wedding in 14+ years was the weekend my mother died. Then a friend stepped in for me and shot on my behalf. He didn't accept any payment and did a wonderful job of it as a favor to me.

 

Otherwise, there's not much that would keep me from shooting a wedding.

Walked out? No. I have refused a contract for a client who I felt was wanting something that I did't want to provide. But I've never just gotten up and walked away or ushered someone out.

I use PhotoJunction. It's about $200 a year, but well worth it. And if you order enough albums from Queensberry, their partner company, they'll waive the fee. But it does designs for most album companies.

~karen

Honestly it's never been an issue for me. My formals are quick and short so the bride and groom are not imposed on more than necessary. Other than that, I try to stay unobtrusive. I have gotten "the look" from a guest and if I notice it, I do try to avoid that guest the rest of the night as much as possible.

~karen

Talk to a lawyer. What you're talking about is a form of a partnership and that's very VERY risky. My partnership was the worst thing I ever did. Be very sure you know your business partners inside and out and even then, talk to a lawyer.

 

Karen

Really, it';s noit the lens that you should be worried about. The 28-135 ought to be fine. Put it on a tripod and take it off thd IS. Sounds to me like you're trying to get the IS to compensate for a lack of focus or a lack of DOF on your subjects. Of course I can't say for sure w/out more info on you're altar shots, including what you're shooting at and what f-stop you're using. The equipmen you have is fine for what you want to accomplish.

 

Karen

AS a pro I'd say if you're getting to keep your iamges and all copyright to them, then I wouldn't pay anything.

 

I pay $150 for an assistant (may do some second shooting, ut not much)

I pay $750 - $1200 for a second shooter (no assistant work at all - strictly there to shoot)

or $1000 - $1750 for a primary shooter (main wedding photog, but working under my name)

 

The last two are so varuiable because the shooter gets 50% of whever I charge the client and that will vary with the level of complexity.

 

I frequenly work with seconds who need to built their portfolio or who shoot for fun. In which case there is no pay involved, but use of all images (with some restrictions).

A partially updated link is at:

http://www.ksimmons.com/photographer/wedfaq.html

 

More changes are coming as I have time.

Yes, when I posted it I did say that I hadn't updated it in a couple of years and that it doesn't address digital at all. I'm hoping to have time to update it later this spring.

<b>I just thought that perhaps she might pay more because she has the ability to do so.</b><br><br>This is a common mistake people make when trying to figure out what to pay or what to charge. It makes no more sense than the bride saying "but you only pay $1.00 for your 8x10, so you shouldn't charge me $20 for it." <br><br> You have no idea what she has the "ability" to pay becuase you don't know what her costs are - direct, overhead, etc. For all you know that $12,000 includes $3000 worth of product. Or for all you know, she's paying $5000 a month for her studio space. Or for all you know she's supporting 4 kids. :) You have no idea what she's "able" to pay really. All you know is what you're worth and what she's willing to pay YOU. :)

<b>my camera bag stays put on my shoulder 99 percent of the time.</b><br><br>Ya know ... it's great you can do that. I can't. I'm 5'4" and I cannot shoot unobtrusively with 2 cameras and a bag full of lenses and gear hanging from my shoulder. It has nothing to do with "wise" ... it has to do with physical limitations. If you can carry the bag and still shoot, more power to you. Not everyone can.

Sure it would apply for a beach wedding.

 

Say you set your camera bag down. Someone is walking around and trips over it and breaks their arm. You're legally liable for that.

 

Say your tripod is set up, but a strong gust of wind catches it and it falls over, knocking the person sitting in the back seat in the head. Ouch. You're legally liable for that.

 

Say you turn around suddenly and the second camera hanging from a shoulder strap smacks the flower girl in the face because you didnt' know she was standing right beside you. You're legally liable for that.

 

All of these things have happened to me while shooting beach weddings. I've been lucky in that the injuries were not serious and the people who were injured did not blame me. But do you want to take that chance?

<b> I think it's almost overkill in my situation.</b><br><br>Will you think it's overkill when you get sued for something like someone tripping over your camera bag and injuring themselves? Or accidentally knocking over something of value at the venue and having to pay for it? <br><br>Shooting a wedding without proper insurance is irresponsible and unprofessional. The cost of a basic liability policy should be figured into *every* wedding photographers' busines plans, whether you're doing full time photography or part time for extra income. <br><br>Is it really worth it to risk your savings, your home, your car, everything you own on the *chance* that nothign will ever go wrong? Especially with people as sue-happy as they are in this country?<br><br>Call Hill & Usher today and get a basic policy. It's the right, professional thing to do.

Her profit margin is irrelvant to your pay. The only things that should be considered here are what you think you're worth, what she's willing to pay, and what the going pay rates for non-exempt positions (like office help) are in your area.

 

In Atlanta I would pay anywhere from $9 to $15/hr for office help, depending on the level of responsibilty and experience. A true office *manager* would be towards the higher end of that scale and if I found someone who could truly run the business w/out me and had PhotoShop experience, freeing me up to just shoot, I'd pay $17-$19/hr.

 

Second shooters (shooting with me) or associate shooters (shooting weddings on their own) are paid by the job, not by the hour. My rate for a second shooter is $750 and my rate for an associate is $1500.

 

Karen

<b>I deal with Art Leather, </b><br><br>There's your problem right there. Art albums from "Art Leather"? *snort* Not possible. Move to a nice, upscale album company like Leather Craftsmen. Leather Craftsmen offers you design & bind or bind only options. Also look into Queensberry, Albums Australia, and so forth for the same services.

<b>it's about the fundamental quality of light (which doesn't appear to be important enough to a lot of Pro's IMHO).</b><br><br>I totally agree! Thanks for the response.

Jeff shoots Leicas with high speed film mostly wide open. But he does use flash when he has to ... just like all of us do.