holly_swanson

<p>I owned the 6D and got rid of it for the 5D3. The AF system is the reason I ditched it - it wasn't good enough for the weddings and child portraits I was doing, and for the extremely fast lenses I was using. However, I think for your purposes it should be OK. It was otherwise a great little camera.</p>

It is good to know that there are others who have experienced a similar thing. If I choose to shoot for free again, I think I

will try to express MY gratitude more.

Marc Rochkind , Aug 15, 2014; 10:59 a.m.

"... people never, ever feel the need to show any appreciation"

 

This is an inaccurate generalization. I volunteer time for several non-profits, my local homeowner's association, and often

photograph things for people as a favor. I have universally received repeated appreciations for all of these efforts.

 

I'm sure your tale is true, but that's no reason for speaking so negatively about people in general.

 

All the people I PERSONALLY have photographed for.

<p>For some reason, people never, ever feel the need to show any appreciation. Why the heck not?! It leaves a horrible feeling in my stomach.</p>

<p>I attempted to start my own business almost 2 years ago, but it failed due to no one willing to pay for photos. As a matter of fact, I could hardly even find anyone to shoot for free. Sad, but true. So I figured well, I enjoy photography so much that I can't really NOT do it, so I'll just shoot my friends' kids for free. I know shooting for free is bad for the industry, but...well, there would be no other way for me to create the photos I want. :\ <br /> I have photographed my sister's kids, and one of my close friend's child. Neither of them ever displayed any type of appreciation after photos were delivered. Not even an "I love the photo." They just post them to their Facebook pages and let the compliments roll in without one word to me. A lot of times THEY don't even show support by "liking" the photo on Facebook!<br /> Has anyone else experienced this? Is this common? Because it is the worst feeling to me, not only not getting paid (and YES I realize at this point I am doing it for the joy of it,) but isn't it still common courtesy? Or do they feel that they've done ME a favor by "allowing" me to photograph their kids??</p>

<p>Sorry for the rant, but I really want to know if anyone else notices this.</p>

<p>This is what I have learned, over the past year of attempting to start a photography business: If you are in need of this to be full-time job, to give you full-time income and to survive off of, don't even try it. Unless you are an absolutely brilliant marketer, I suppose. With a lot of spare cash to throw into your new business. If you have plenty of spare time and money and can afford to do this as a hobby with just the aspiration of going full-time one day, then sure.</p>

<p>As someone who was new to the industry, I found there to be far, far too much competition. Every stay at home mom is becoming a photographer these days, and apparently darn good ones. Another problem is that the large majority of clients do not appreciate or recognize any artistic aspect to photography - they only care about poses and how they look. Which is important, too, of course, but if you're a fine art photographer hoping to set yourself apart with moody, emotional images and creative editing, good luck. That's kind of common sense, I guess, but still disapointing.</p>

<p>So say you DO create photos that appeal to the majority. Clients will be turned off by any prices over $200-300, rationalizing that they can just call their uncle who owns a "good DSLR" and come up with some cool poses themselves. (Since, remember, they don't recognize any creative talent aspect, they do not have the ability to see the justification for any high prices.)<br>

<br /> The ones who are successful are the brilliant marketers. They manage to appeal to their clients in a way that I was never able to figure out. It has little to do with their actual photography and more to do with their personality. As someone who is shy and artistic, and well, since I'm not exactly a people person, down the drain that went. The photos of course must be good, too, but you could take the same photos, take away the marketing bubbly photographer personality, and quite frankly no one would care.<br /> I admit it, when I first started out I too thought "I own a 5d mark III and a ton of L lenses, people will be knocking down my door to pay me to take their picture!" I look back and laugh at that now :) <br /> I was never looking for an easy buck, I worked extremely hard and spent a LOT of money to start my business. I worked for a wedding photography studio early on, but that wasn't worth it as the pay was far too low. After a year, I found ONE client to shoot for free, ONE more client to shoot who chose me as a last-minute resort after the other falling through for $125, and the wedding studio gigs. That's it. I got scoffed at every time someone asked me my rates and I answered anything over $200. <br /> Seriously, IT'S SO BAD THAT YOU CAN'T EVEN FIND PEOPLE TO SHOOT FOR FREE. At least, that was the case for me. I never could understand just where in the world all the photographers get their clients streaming in from. It just never happened for me, but seems to for many others. <br /> Please forgive the negativity, but quite frankly it's liberating to throw in the towel.</p>

<p>I will be bringing my camera to a car show in a few weeks, and as a way to distribute the files I would like to allow people access to a proofing site where they can download. The problem is with the amount of pictures I'm thinking there will be, it would be wonderful if people could somehow search within the gallery. This way I could have the file names contain their license plate, and they could just search their license plate #. At least that's the idea I had.</p>

<p>Does such a proofing site exist? </p>

<p>Ok, thanks. I think what I am going to do is photograph for whoever asks, whoever just happens to chat us up. I don't think I will sell the files.</p>

<p>I will be accompanying my boyfriend to a car show in a few weeks. The listing had already stated "professional photographer on site" ...which is someone other than me. I have experience shooting weddings for a large studio in the area, and have my own portfolio, website, the whole deal, and the equipment to produce professional images (I would bring my 5D Mark III & most likely my 85 1.2 or 24-70)</p>

<p>I was wanting to attend with my camera, take some casual photos, hand out my card and cheaply sell a few digital files if anyone so desired to buy some.</p>

<p>I imagine this could cause conflict with the designated photographer. <br /> Am I allowed to do this? I assume the best thing to do would be to talk to the host of the event, which I plan to do as soon as I can find some contact information. But mostly, I'm also wanting to know how to possibly become the designated photographer for these types of events. At the moment this is outside my specialty (which is weddings & portraits), which is why I have so many questions about it :)</p>

Ian - thanks. May I ask for suggestions

on how to build Facebook followers? Is

there anything specific or is it just a result of all the various marketing you've done?

Rick - I had said that last night I just

changed the prices and made a rough

mock up of what I would consider

profitable pricing, as that is what I've

heard should be done.

My prices before were not profit-

making. At this point I feel it doesn't

quite matter if I experiment a little, as I

don't have any customers. And

speaking of Facebook followers, I only

have 56. Hah. I've been present on

Facebook for about 10 months. I don't

know why I am having such a hard

time of this, I suppose maybe it's

because I don't have a large network to

begin with? I mean I don't have a ton of

friends and I have an extremely small

family. I am not a particularly outgoing

person either. (I know, that's bad.)

 

Also Rick, I want to only be open to

shooting newborns, seniors, maternity,

and children. So weddings as far as

pricing goes are not even being

considered. What frustrates me is that

people around me don't seem to

realize that I need to make a living

here. I can't afford to just give anything

away, or shoot for free or $150 for an

entire flash full of 100 edited files :/ And

yet it seems that's what everyone

around me expects. So I'm going to try

to appeal to higher end clients.

<p>You guys are incredibly helpful as always. I'm thinking of raising my prices to a sort of "non-desperation" level. This is what I've heard from everyone should be done - price appropriately, not undercutting... I've put together a quick better price list, in addition to offering prints as suggested, based on the pricing of prints I could get from Queensberry. It's on my investment page if anyone wants to check it out and give thoughts. It may be totally ridiculous, as I have been having so much trouble getting anyone to pay anything at all hah.... but, it doesn't seem ridiculous compared to what I've seen marketed elsewhere.<br /> Also, I recently received business cards and will see this weekend about distributing them. I'm also hoping to learn how to actually work together with other vendors - that's all new to me too. But I love doing all this :) I'm thinking contacting people to see if they will swap referrals? <br /> <br /> Thanks</p>

<p>Thanks for the tips Bill!</p>

<blockquote>

 

 

<p>A side effect of the rise of digital is that great photography is so much easier. Cameras are cheap, everywhere, and capable of fantastic results. Good photographers are now a dime a dozen, so to speak. Everyone has a friend or family member who takes great shots. Digital has made photography so easy, that sadly it has also killed the market for selling photos. That is part of what you are encountering.</p>

 

 

 

</blockquote>

 

 

<p>Yes...and yet still, many, many others are getting plenty of clients.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Are you using Google Analytics or any other sort of traffic analysis tool to see what's going on? Is anyone even seeing the site?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Hadn't heard of that before - setting it up now.</p>

<blockquote>

 

</blockquote>

 

 

<p><a name="pagebottom"></a></p>

<p>I have been working on starting my photography business, and so far I have only had one "real" client - a friend of a family member who I didn't even charge, and who for some reason never replied to me after I asked for the address to send the flash drive of free images to. No idea why, but it's been almost 2 months and never heard back. I have shot a few wedding with a large studio near me as a second shooter, but do not want to specialize in weddings.</p>

<p>This is the web site I launched - documentingyou dot com (still somewhat under construction, some little things need to be changed/added).<br /> Oh and also my flickr is to see more pics if you're interested.</p>

<p>Please, can anyone take a look and tell me what might be wrong with it that I am not getting clients? I haven't got ONE client - I even advertised on craigslist to shoot for FREE and got no one! So please tell me, look at my portfolio and be honest with me - are my photos bad quality? Is it just a style that no one is interested in? Something else? As you can see, my prices are not even profit-making level at this point, and yet whenever I respond to anyone with a price inquiry an answer that's any more than about $150, I get a subtle look of shock and disgust, like that is an outrageous amount. Um, excuse me? :/ A friend asked about me photographing her daughter's baby shower, I replied I could do it for $200 and yeah...her reaction wasn't pretty. I highly doubt I'll hear from her.</p>

<p>Please help. I live in the suburbs of Chicago if that helps at all - it's not like I'm in an especially cheap area, so I have no idea why I'm having so much trouble. Most things I read about photography businesses talk about having to turn clients away and charging as much as they darn well please.</p>

<p>Well I tried it again today in better light, with the 50 1.2. The curved foreground bokeh is still present, as you can see at the bottom of this image, and still looks very odd to me.<br /> http://postimg.org/image/y3fuwq2h7/<br /> I know it probably has to do with many other issues but I just want to make sure it couldn't possibly be this different camera. If it could be, that's something I need to know. Otherwise I will just keep working on it. I really had never noticed this before with the 6D, I'm not sure why...that's pretty coincidental to me that it coincides with a body change.<br /> Thanks for the replies!</p>

<p>After performing completely random test shots in my backyard with a 5d Mark III, I am a bit confused at what I'm finding. The lenses I used were a 50 1.2 and the 135 2.0, both of which have never given me this result when using a 6D.<br>

I do not know if there is a term for it but I think it is best described as swirly bokeh... that's the closest description I can come up with. Take a look. It is in the foreground of all these photos and looks godawful.</p>

<p>Shot with 135 2: http://postimg.org/image/e1ep6bamn/<br>

Shot with 50 1.2: http://postimg.org/image/9drr6z757/<br>

Shot with 50 1.2: http://postimg.org/image/h9b2h0r03/</p>

<p>That is 3 examples. Very horrible if I do say so myself! What is going on here?<br>

These lenses were both being shot wide open at ISO 100 all at speeds over 1/1200. </p>

 

<p>Les - I should have clarified, the problem mostly appears shooting at close ranges and more so with very wide apertures. It is not all of the time but frequent enough. The picture is moody so is intended to be "underexposed"</p>

<p>Jeff- I haven't yet, that will be my next step</p>

<p>Thanks Charles, will try that.</p>

<p>After seeking much help with focusing problems, and trying incredibly hard to figure out what the problem was (was it just that I didn't know what I was doing? was it the lens? was it my shutter speed.......etc. etc. etc.), I finally gave up on my 6D and upgraded. <br>

I upgraded to the 5D mark III because I was so scarred by this whole AF problem the 6D has given me. And I have to admit, my problems so far appear to be solved. </p>

<p>So I'm wondering if something really could have been wrong with my 6D copy. Here is a random sample:<br>

http://postimg.org/image/d27netmgz/<br>

This photo was shot with my 6D and 50 1.2 lens, shot at f2.2 1/125 ISO100. I used the farthest right focal point to focus on the "5D" lettering and received focus confirmation. And yet it appears to have front focused on the sensor cap. By the way, this lens itself has been calibrated to this 6D using the FoCal system. </p>

<p>So, is it possible for a body itself to simply have faulty AF? </p>

<p>I am trying out the 5D mark III for a few days - and I'm kind of bewildered about how they've set up you options for selecting your AF point. I am coming from the 6D, which allows me to simply fly through all the AF points with one main dial. The MkIII is making me press one button at the top of the camera, then the main dial to go right-left, and THEN the rubber nipple/"multi-controller" to go up and down (forgive me, I do not know the correct terms for each button yet lol). <br /> I can't believe this, quite frankly. This would be so fumbly and time consuming, all just to change your AF point! I imagine missed shots would happen all the time.</p>

<p>Is there a way to configure the settings of my buttons so that AF point selection can be done with JUST the multi-controller? I could not find it in the manual.</p>

<p>I have second shot weddings with the 6D. It really is a great camera, but it's known as an entry-level full frame for a reason. Still, IQ is phenomenal and I don't think it will give you any limitations - just not the comfy AF of the 5dm3</p>

<p>I quit today. I learned a lot from them, going to their seminars and apprenticing on full weddings, but I think you're right, it's not worth it any more. </p>

<p>Michael - that is what I was thinking. It puts a LOT of wear on my gear.</p>

<p>Well, the actual hourly rate for photographers (not second shooters) is $50. So if you get a bride who needs 8 hours you get $400. Obviously there would be some brides that need 10 hours or so, so you'd get more. </p>

<p>Also, they only have you shoot a time or two a month. It's not like this could ever be a full time thing</p>

<p>I have been second shooting for a wedding studio. They pay $180 for 4 hours of second shooting, which mainly just consists of going around taking table shots of 150+ guests during the reception. Most of the assignments are 1 hr + distance from me. When/if I were to go on to shoot full weddings for them, they would pay $400 for an entire wedding, including months of preparation (communication with the bride, helping to plan the day, trying to upsell, etc.)</p>

<p>The most disturbing thing I'd learned about this studio was how they encourage upselling (not uncommon I suppose) and how they may actually lie to customers.... the boss had talked about them using stock photos that were not taken by you, adding them to your portfolio, and phrasing it to the customers "this is how this photographer shoots" or something of the like, so they will assume it's your work.</p>

<p>Anyway, do you think this deal would be worth your time?</p>

<p>I'm seriously considering ending working with them because they no longer offer compensation for editing time. And I am starting to reconsider my passion for the wedding field; I feel, at least with this studio, that pressure and stress are extremely high and creativity is hard to come by in that situation. I'm thinking of focusing on children and families. <br /><br /><br /> What do you think?</p>

Leon thanks for the tips. Yeah saying

no to people is a good one....I did get

one inquiry from a low-level client who

wanted me to photograph many hours

of a sweet 16 party for close to nothing.

Definitely didn't go for that one.

Hopefully now that I'm narrowing down

my niche I will attract more clients.