eli_fedele

<p>Haha :)</p>

<p>@Michael - that would definitely make developing a tad easier (each slide could be developed singly and the process perfected that way, especially the re-exposure parts, but the re-spooling of the film and the exposures that way helps me process film as a whole and if I were to shoot the film on the roll, I would get much better efficiency (given that KC is a commodity) - there would be those "wasted" end segments of film.</p>

<p>I do like the idea though, and will give it some thought.</p>

Sounds fair. At this point it'll be chemical acquisition rather than process possibilities. For the most part I have a tentative

process worked out; I'll have some form of a typed description up in the next day or so. The equipment shouldn't be an

issue as this process is experimental at best and not designed to be efficient.

If I am able to get the dyes from Sigma-Aldrich, I'll pull times from the K-14 patent and develop that way with minimal

modification. I'll probably go the route of hair dye though, as it'll (most likely) be obtainable at less cost and greater

quantity. That also affords me the ability to practice and perfect the procedure more, at the cost of less dye stability (

compared to K-14 dyes) and non-standard times; I'll use bulk film for that. E-6 developer and reversal agents can be

used, as they are chemically equivalent to the Kodachrome process chemicals.

Depends. Are those camera filters? If not, I may use some shop skills to embed them in a filter ring. It depends on how monochromatic

the LEDs that I choose to use are.

<p>Does the re-exposures absolutely have to be done wet? I forgot to mention I intended to dry the film before respooling. Also I planned on using tape marks on the film in several positions along the first few frames to serve for alignment purposes.</p>

<p>In regards to the wet re-exposures, I see no reason why it shouldn't work, but then again, Kodachrome was hard to process for a reason.</p>

<p>Definitely, it seems now this seems to be a more achievable project, especially if the hair dye concept proves to work out. I figure I can order a loader and some bulk B&W to practice the dying procedures, maybe even re-exposing and producing some one-color reversals on B&W. Since it is Kodachrome we're talking about, I will have very limited quantities to work with and want to have the procedure down pat before actually using it.</p>

<p>For the light re-exposures I have an idea which may work, but I'll run it by everyone here for critique. My idea is to buy a cheap SLR off eBay (the manual-advance ones), and hack the lens glass out and mount red and blue LEDs inside the barrel of the lens. Run them to two different circuits (one red, one blue) and respool the film accordingly to expose the proper side. Load the camera, and "shoot" the film again, one exposure at a time. For variance, the shutter speed can be altered to find the proper time. The film is rewound and re-tanked for the next step.</p>

<p>If I am able to get these trials to work...well folks, we'll be seeing the first color Kodachrome freshly developed in over a year (including the fact it may take me a while to acquire the water baths and dyes). @Larry - that would be a tremendous help, but I won't take you up on it until I have a process with a reasonable chance of success. If anyone wants me to, I'll scan and link to the process that I've (tentatively) worked out.</p>

<p>@Phil - Haha, that's not the case. The mutilation of the film canister is by no means a worry to me, if I have to do it. I know very well how to do so, and I've processed enough commercial rolls to have it down. If I didn't know how to open the rolls, I wouldn't be asking how to process Kodachrome, I'd be asking how to process B&W.</p>

<p>I was just wondering if there are any ways to open the rolls without mutilating or bending the canister out of shape, so I could reuse it with bulk film or something. It would be a neat thing to go up to my photo course instructor and hand him an empty KC canister to load and get a funny look. If I must resort to hacking it up for the sake of progress, by all means I will do so.</p>

<p>I already have a tentative procedure in place, depending on the chemicals and setups used I will add times to it later and if this project gets to the point of your rolls helping me then I will post up that procedure and logistic information in full detail and explanation for anyone to review/critique/etc. I have a good understanding of chemistry and how the chemicals will and should interact.</p>

<p>I will work on getting a full process and interaction diagram done either tonight or tomorrow and if any of you want I will post it for review.</p>

<p>@Heinz - I did not think about that! I knew some color developers and other vague derivatives of photography compounds were used, but I did not know that the dyes could be used. If you want, you can email me and we can discuss that more in detail. If anyone can find me a link for those couplers and CD developers, I could progress more with this and would be very thankful. While the exact magenta, cyan and yellow colors may not be Kodak-accurate, it would be "close enough" - we have to remember we're working with a film for which processing is no longer available, so if I have to take slightly off-color than what processing would have made it look like, at least we're getting what we're trying for.</p>

<p>In the meantime while I'm trying to gather a bit more info and stuff before I can proceed, is there any way to open the canister without mutilating it via good ol' canopener?<br>

Because I'd love to have me a Kodachrome canister that I could use with bulk 35mm.</p>

<p>....meaning...?</p>

<p>Again, I don't think this has been conveyed enough, but I'm not doing this to make a practical, economical procedure to develop Kodachrome and to bring its processing back from the deep. I'm doing this to prove hey, it could be done and maybe have some fun in the process. </p>

<p>This would be the hobby-in-spare-time, not the all-consuming quest over the supposed photographic Holy Grail. I perfectly understand, right now, that it is unlikely I will ever be able to run such a project. My ability to obtain the chemicals is unlikely. My ability to make such a setup work <em>properly</em> is even more unlikely at that. Finally, any hope to produce acceptable results which would rival that of modern, properly-processed Ektachrome and even hint at the standard that Kodachrome was is merely in itself that - a <em>hope</em> - probably excess optimism at that - and is probably factoring more variables than I would be able to account for in the first place.</p>

<p>Best case scenario, I produce KC slides that are the first anyone has seen newly-processed since KC processing went down just about a year ago. That's it. Maybe others in such a scenario might follow my documentation to try and do it themselves, but it's unlikely. Might I remind you that I'm a senior in high school - I haven't the experience or time to know what not to do - and if such a project teaches me several things about photography, even if I was never able to develop KC properly, it was worth it.</p>

<p>Now that seems like a fair challenge, but at least that has probably been attempted and has a documented success rate.<br>

So assuming I can get ahold of the dyes/couplers in the first place, how would I go about developing? Just premix with the developer and pour in on the appropriate steps? Pour in first and follow with the developer?</p>

<p>So Kodachrome is the equivalent of stacking three films together, and each emulsion is exposed in a different color. Makes sense...somewhat, but it's the intricacies that are the issue.<br>

How would you do a reversal? I would probably practice and calibrate the operation on B&W film first with single dyes before swapping to all 3 dyes at once.<br>

And about your last comment...that is exactly what I've tried to convey above anything else here, that I'm doing it to experiment and to have a bit of fun, maybe get results. Stellar results are more than what I'm hoping for, and I'm not trying to be the world's next KC processor. I'm just trying to prove that hey, it could be done again, that Kodak didn't absolutely quench the world's last possibility of color development of Kodachrome.<br>

Even if it comes out wildly inaccurate that'll still be good enough results for me should I not have enough KC stock to continue. </p>

<p>Exactly. Even if the result comes out with completely off saturation and color shifts and what not, at least it would show me that hey, the chemicals did what they were supposed to when they were supposed to do it. <br>

At which point it would be a combination of aggressive trial-and-error and a lot of time of good ol' back-to-the-drawing-board kind of research. I don't see any reason though why it would be an impossible feat.<br>

On an optimistic note, I have good news.<br>

Rowland Mowrey let me know that a good starting point would be the RA-4 or C-41 developers as they contain the proper CD-3/CD-4 color developing agents. Also, the dyes/couplers in use are apparently still available, albeit in significantly restricted quantities.</p>

<p>If you would've read the original post in its entirety and read with a bit of context sensitivity...it's because it's a challenge. Of course I could get any E-6 film, run a 100F water bath and with half a clue and a keen eye for charts and regulations get decent, maybe even lab-quality results.<br>

That, however, is not the point. I'm a chemistry major who likes challenges. The point is to prove it <em>can be done</em>. As I said (again in the original post), I'm not trying to resurrect a dead film and an even more justifiably-dead process, I'm trying to give myself a challenge and see if I can actually get decent results. Of course it's been discontinued. If it hadn't I wouldn't be sitting here posting this.<br>

You may ask yourself why we sent a man to the moon...certainly wasn't to run lab analyses on moon dust...it was so we could sit around for eternity and say we made the feat.<br>

Assuming I find some way to obtain the dyes even, I can't see myself processing more than 5-10 rolls that I would find primarily through eBay, and I definitely wouldn't become the world's next Kodachrome processor (even though I would post full documentation about it). </p>

<p>Just got online at APUG.org and sent Photo Engineer a message about the specifics.<br>

@Michael - thanks, and that would be an absolutely huge help should I get some more confidence regarding this project.<br>

I will make sure to keep everyone posted (probably over this thread) about everything, especially what I hear back about it. Obviously, in the rare chance this does work, I will post full documentation about exactly how I did everything.</p>

<p>@John - if I were to get the chemicals, making them or however, substitution w/e,<br>

would the K-14 process be "in vitro" compatible by tanking, or would it ABSOLUTELY require a processing line?</p>

<p>@Erik - link me to your blog, I'll be sure to check it out. Is that B&W or color? I'm assuming B&W.<br>

This leaves me a lot of thinking to do.<br>

Are there any other standardized processes that do not rely on emulsion-bound dyes (that is, you have to add the dyes)? <br>

You may see where I'm going with this - is it possible to shift the dyes from one process to the other? Theoretically, it should work. The silver is the same, and use of a compatible developer...My mind tells me yes, but experience isn't around to comment.</p>

<p>Well if you can get ahold of it, please share!<br>

If I can get the chemicals regardless of concentration, I could probably brute-force the development times, or at least figure them out the hard way.<br>

And to process KC in B/W, wouldn't you have to omit the bleaching step?</p>

<p>Okay, now my next question is if I can't obtain the coupler and dye agents, is it possible to obtain original K-14 dyes and couplers? I know that KC films don't contain them.<br>

And if I can't obtain them, are there any analogs? What are the specific chemicals in use?</p>

<p>In that case, I may try to get on board with everything a bit quicker. I know you can readily buy E-6 chemistry kits, and all I believe it requires is a water bath for temperature control.<br>

Do you know if Kodachrome is still readily available in decent quantities, and if so, where?<br /><br />(I may need a couple rolls as "calibration" for my setup - those light re-exposures get to be hard - too much, ruins film; too little, doesn't sensitize) </p>

<p>I know I'm probably kicking a gigantic hornet's nest here, especially with this being my first post on photo.net and all, but you definitely read correctly.<br>

Everywhere I've read and photographers I've talked to have told me that Kodachrome was a very intricate process to develop, such that it was out of the means of hand-processing (i.e. tank) and even the capability of smaller labs. Hence, why Dwayne's Photo was the last to be able to process it.<br>

However, being introduced into photography and finding the chemistry of film really interesting (and being an applying chemistry major at that), I want to try the tables and see if such a feat can be done. It doesn't help having the headstrong I'm-not-taking-no-for-an-answer mentality either. This isn't necessarily to produce lab-quality, perfect results. This is to do so and prove, yes, I did it. I processed something which is almost impossible to process in the manner that I did. A bit of a bonus point for my mind.<br>

If it helps, I'm not blindly rushing into this. I've in the past month done extensive looking into how color is generally processed, and gone to hundreds of niche forums and photographer's blogs that used Kodachrome and who know some of its intricacies. I've looked in detail to the K-14 process and what it entails. Now, obviously K-14 specific chemicals have been discontinued.<br>

From what I could gather, piece together and what was looked at:</p>

<ul>

<li>K-14 specifies a PQ developer (phenidone-hydroquinone combination). D-76 fulfills such the category, albeit at modified development times</li>

<li>E-6 dyes and color couplers could be used (not sure on this one, I understand the color coupler concepts, but not sure how they varied by process)</li>

<li>Anti-halation backing removal solution could be made by a 1g/800mL sodium hydroxide solution</li>

</ul>

<p>What I planned on doing for the re-exposures (red re-exposure before the cyan coupling and development and the blue re-exposure before yellow development) was re-spool the film into a canister with the leader intact and what not, load into a modified camera where a blue or red light is inserted into a lens barrel and exposed. That has the benefit of allowing for standardized shutter times - then the film is rewound, retanked and on to the next step of the development process.<br>

Obviously all chemical processes would take place at the standard 100F (38C) temperature.<br>

Would this (in theory) work? I'm a chemist - the mentality is "what you know can work is significantly different from what will work should you try to complete it"<br>

E. Fedele</p>