rick_smith12

Hey there, there's a guy by the name of Ken Ruth (heard of him?) who runs Photography On Bald Mountain (repairs for antique cameras and optical instruments) in Davenport California that you might want to contact about repairs on your Medalist...he's run this business for around 40 years or so now and even though he's officially retired from the repair end of it now (as of around 3 years ago) in his day he was THE Go To Guy for Medalist repairs!...like I said he still runs the business and I'm sure he could and would be glad to refer you to an equally qualified colleague of his who could do a 1st rate job for you...Medalist repair people are a small tight knit group after all and they all know each other and their qualifications...his contact info is Ken Ruth at Photography On Bald Mountain phone # 831-423-4465 or email: baldmtn@pacbell.net or www.baldmtn.com...you can google Photography On Bald Mountain and check out his website...hope this helps, Rick Smith p.s., I traded him some parts from other cameras for some parts for my Medalist II a few years back and he had a slew of Medalist parts cameras at the time that he salvaged parts from for the repair work he did on them, he may still have plenty of spare parts if they may be needed...

Thanks for the link to the Service Manual (although I already had it), it's definitely a Citizen shutter, has 'Citizen' stamped into the aperture control ring retainer plate on the rear of the shutter along with a serial #...my Digital Canon won't focus clearly down below around 2 feet or so no clear pics...the parts in question on the exploded view in the Service Manual are # 225 'cocking lever' and #226 'cocking lever screw'...to me # 226 in the exploded view appears to be exactly that, a 'screw' so either this exploded view is for an earlier or perhaps a later design of this shutter being that the shutter in this camera that I have definitely does NOT have a screw holding the cocking lever onto the shaft, it has a round slotted 'cap nut' on top of the cocking lever that's not threaded with a pin pressed through it in the slotted area and through the cocking lever shaft...bad design where the exploded view design was much better!...thanks again, Rick Smith

Hello Sir, I feel that there's been a bit of misunderstanding here on both our parts, I had mistakenly gotten the impression that perhaps you were another one of the internet 'cynics' that hang about these sites but I now see that your offer of assistance is genuine so I appreciate this and please allow me to extend my apologies to you...on the other hand perhaps you mistook me for someone who's just starting out with repairing old cameras, I'm not new at this and have been stumbling around in it and through it for over 20 years now so with that said here's where I am today. Without complicating things any further I have a half dozen or so of these cameras that I've acquired over the years for very little or nothing, all in very good to excellent shape, and all with working shutters with only one issue in common, the aperture blades in all of them are dislodged (bad pin design, not long enough) and I'm just now getting around to trying to remedy this The issue that I have with this is that this is the 1st Citizen shutter of this particular model that I'm attempting to repair for the 1st time and outside of the Seiko's that Kowa used in their SET series of cameras I've not yet run across another one that has to have a pin pressed out of the shutter charging lever in order to separate the shutter halves. Most of these Japanese shutters are pretty much direct or indirect but closely related clones of Compur's and in most cases the halves can be separated by removing several screws in the rear of the shutter but not this one evidently...the needle nose pliers 'tool' for pressing the pin out of the cocking lever won't really be a problem to fabricate so rather than destroy anything that'll be next. I had hoped that perhaps there was a 'workaround' to this non-user friendly design flaw but if there is I've yet to hear about it, if and when I do I'll let you know and post it here...if someone in the meantime who actually has disassembled one of these shutters and steps forward and confirms that the shutter cocking leaver pin HAS to be removed to access the diaphragm plate in order to re-seat the aperture blades and there is no 'workaround' to this then all of us will know for sure. Until one or the other occurs thank you again for offering to be of assistance in this matter, I appreciate it...have a good one, Rick Smith

Hey pal, while your comment is interesting considering the website we're on here and the topic of this discussion my reply to you would have to be that to me repairing these old cameras is simply a matter of the simple satisfaction gained in being able to repair something that was'nt really broken at all and more importantly the learning experience that comes along with the process..in any case.these 7s' are not throwaways to me no matter what their value may be, it's more about the leaning process and having the determination to not give up and throw in the towel so easily...some of the best high-end cameras in their day that I have I acquired from former owners who neglected them, never had them serviced, and gave up on them when they understandably simply stopped working and sold them for scrap metal prices so with this in mind if you should happen to have any old junkers laying around that are 'finished' drop me a line and let me know what you have and if they're free I may be interested in taking them off your hands and will be glad to pay for the shipping o.k.?...thanks and have a good one, Rick Smith

Hey Dave, jeez man, I completely missed all of the rest of the info in the SPT Service Notes pdf's about other cameras, when I saw Argus 260 and Nikon on the cover pages I just stopped right there so thanks for the heads up and my apologies...unfortunately in the case of the disassembly of this Citizen shutter there's nothing further to be found in the Service Notes so I'm still at square one...there IS a disassembly chart and notes there on a Soligor Miranda f2.8 135mm telephoto that I can use so this was a bonus!..so .for now thanks again and have a good one, Rick Smith...p.s., it IS kind of weird isn't it that no one including Tomosy ever addressed this particular shutter and how to disassemble or even service it considering how many of them were used in nearly all if not all of the various Japanese and even some of the American camera brands...weird!...I know someone knows the ins and outs of it so hopefully they'll step forward and clear up the mystery...later

Hey Dave, thanks for replying but the 'Learn Camera Repair' site is where I found the SPT pdf on the Petri 7s (2 duplicate photos of the same pdf there) and the Service Manual that's there I've had for years...the other 2 pdf offerings there are for an Argus and a Nikon so no help...thanks again for trying to be of help, I appreciate it, maybe someone who has actually disassembled one of these shutters will stumble across this post and chime in...have a good one, Rick Smith

Hey Cory, thanks for replying...I have a copy of the same camera (Super f1.9) and you're right, it has a Copal shutter that I took apart years ago for the same reason as you did yours but this Citizen shutter in the 7s while similar is a bit different and has me stumped for the moment...see, the rear of the shutter case can't be shifted to separate it from the rest of the shutter body so you can gain access to the diaphragm plate without supposedly (according to the SPT pdf) 'pressing out' the shutter charging 'drive pin' that also supposedly has to be done with a 'special tool' that you have to machine/manufactured out of a set of needle nose pliers (?...no photos provided in the SPT pdf of said 'tool' either)...the shutter charging lever on the rear of the shutter has what appears to be a round 'slotted nut' holding the lever in place on the drive pin but I can't swear to this being that I can't see any threads on the end of the drive pin or on the top of this 'nut'...to me it does'nt make sense that this or any other intricate clockwork shutter would ever have to have any of their parts 'pressed out' in order to access the diaphragm plate to re-seat dislodged blades so like I said there has to be an easier way that I've somehow missed or maybe this 'slotted nut' on the drive pin/lever actually unscrews so the lever can be removed to further disassemble the rear of the shutter...so hopefully maybe someone who has actually done this with the Citizen shutter in a Petri 7s will stumble across this post and lend a hand....by the way, very nice photo documentation of your Copal repair, wish I had had it way back when...for now though thanks again, have a good one, Rick Smith

Hey all you good people, I have a Petri 7s camera with a Citizen shutter (of unknown model) that I'm having an issue with that I'd like to check with the collective wisdom and experience here to see if someone can help me to resolve this...the issue is that the aperture blades have become dislodged from the diaphragm plate and I'm having a problem with how to go about disassembling the shutter only far enough to reposition the blades back into their guides in the diaphragm plate...the guide pins are still attached to the blades (none broken loose) so no problem with them...I've read as much as could be found on repairing this issue (which seems to be a common issue with this particular shutter) but it seems that most of the info available is from the recollections of repairs from many days gone by and therefore possibly a bit confused to some degree with memories of other shutters repaired and consequently of little use...I did find a pdf of a repair for this Citizen shutter published by the Society of Photo Technologists specifically for the Petri 7s camera but it was overly complicated where it should'nt have been, left out info where it shold'nt have, and seemingly required the repair person to manufacture a 'special tool' for pressing the main charging pin out of the shutter charging mechanism in the shutter in order to remove or access the diaphragm plate in the shutter to reposition the aperture blades in such...this can't be, there has to be an easier way!...for what it's worth I've disassembled and repaired Seikosha's, Compur's, Seiko's, Copal's, etc. and while they're all fairly complicated 'clockwork' mechanisms as this Citizen is I've not run into any issues like this in disassembling them far enough to re-seat the shutter or aperture blades in any of them...so if there's anyone who can shed a little light here or knows from experience of a workaround to this issue please be good enough to pass it on o.k.?...I'll be grateful so thanks in advance, Rick Smith

Hey Rick, thanks for the info, you were right about the rewind release button shaft and and your memory served you well...the rewind release push button shaft has a small brass round-wire ring that sits in a groove near the end of the shaft and acts essentially like an external snap ring on the shaft...when the button and shaft is pulled hard outward towards the front of the camera the ring on the shaft being round wire is compressed into the grove by the end of the tube the shaft slides back and forth in and then the shaft can be pulled all the way out of the tube and body...so many thanks for taking the time to reply and for this pointer, it's good info and now we'll see what's next....have a good one, Rick Smith

Hey Rick, I realize that this thread is 2 years old but I hope you're still following it or at least getting messages forwarded to you regarding your repairs and efforts with this camera...I have one also that I'm in the process of disassembling and have a question regarding removing the shutter crate from the body and since you've done this who better to ask right?...I saw your posts from back in 2011 when you were disassembling your camera but the photos you posted with your progress in disassembling the camera are no longer visible but fortunately the one above with the camera disassembled still was so this was helpful...so here's where I'm stuck, I've removed the leatherette, all of the screws on the front to the left and right of the lens mount, and the knobs on top of the camera but left the slow speed dial stop (it appears to be just a press-in plug basically) and the lens helical in place as it didn't appear that they needed to be removed and can now wiggle the crate just slightly to the left and right and up and down but it will not move any further than this and I'm 99% certain that the brass rewind release push button on the front of the camera above the slow speed dial is what's holding the crate in place and keeping it from being removed...would I be correct in assuming this?...I saw that you had managed to remove this release button in your 2011 posting 'relatively painlessly' but again the photos are no longer visible and you didn't mention what was involved in removing the button so could you tell me what you had to do to remove it?...I've tried very light prying outwardly with the tip of a flat lade screwdriver thinking maybe it was a snap-in button that would release under a little pressure but it didn't and I do not wish to damage anything in this 70-odd year old camera so if you have a moment can you enlighten me on how you removed this button and if it's the last piece that could be holding the crate in place of if there's other 'hidden surprises' involved in removing the crate also?...any other pointers or help you can lend, comments, pics, etc. would be greatly appreciated also...thanks in advance, Rick Smith

<p>Hey Charles, thanks for replying and with no offense intended or seeming to be belaboring the point the camera I have is a Grafllex Century 35 Rangefinder model with the Seikosha MX shutter and the Prominar f3.5 lens and not a Graflex Century 35A Viewfinder...the Century 35 Rangefinder model was offered with two lens options, the Prominar f3.5 (that was used on the Century 35A Viewfinder also) and the Prominar f2.8 although most that you see have the f3.5 lens as this one does...the other difference between the Century 35 Rangefinder and the Century 35 Viewfinder is that the Century 35 Rangefinder uses the Seikosha MX shutter with the top shutter speed of 1/500th where the Century 35A Viewfinder used an unnamed shutter (maybe a lower grade Seikosha but who knows?) with a top speed of 1/300th...needless to say two different shutters, two different front lens mount configurations...I appreciate your mentioning the use of acetone on the threads and while this crossed my mind I honestly only use it as a last resort when everything else has failed because of the potential damage it can do and also because it's rarely ever necessary...I tried alcohol on the area around the nameplate ring allowing some to seep into the gap there (even though there were no threads visible there) to soften any thread sealant and then tried unscrewing it with a gum rubber stopper with no luck, and like I said the lens housing appears to be a solid one-piece machined housing with 3 different diameter sections but with no lines of separation that would indicate that one piece unscrews out of or from in front of the other like the front element housing does on the Ricoh 35's I have with the Seikosha MX shutter so I'm still stumped...everything you've said is logical about how it should come apart considering industry assembly standards at the time and including the use of acetone to soften any thread sealant but outside of the acetone approach logical disassembly processes aren't working here (yet) so if you've personally removed the front lens group from this particular model camera and maybe there's something you forgot to mention about how it's done (some little trick, something to ignore, something to pay attention to or look for) please be good enough to let me know o.k.?...thanks again Charles, I appreciate it...Rick</p>

<p>...Hi there, I have a Graflex Century 35 Rangefinder made by Kowa between 1957-1959 with the Seikosha MX shutter and Prominar f3.5 lens and would like to know if anyone reading this has ever removed the front lens element group from the shutter assembly on one of them.<P>I have 2 Ricoh Deluxe 35 Rangefinders that use this same Seikosha MX shutter and the front element group simply unscrews from the front of the shutter so that you can then access the front retainer ring/plate (which is clearly visible looking at the front of the outside of the shutter as a separate ring) with the 'hidden under the front lens group' half-moon shaped pin faced pin that has to be turned to rotate and remove the retainer plate and then the speed dial can be removed to gain access to the inside of the shutter mechanism.<P>Here's the difference and the 'BUT', the front element group housing on this Seikosha MX on the Graflex Century 35 appears to one solid aluminum housing with 3 different sections of different diameters with the shutter speed dial directly behind it...there are no separation lines anywhere visible on the 3 different sections of this solid appearing housing although the first two sections (the surround around the front element and nameplate) and the larger diameter machined section behind it appear to be of a slightly different finish than the third and largest section behind them and directly in front of the shutter speed dial...this entire front aluminum housing does not appear to unscrew from the shutter as the front element housing does on the Ricoh's (or has resisted all attempts at unscrewing it) and the nameplate ring around the front element doesn't have any slots for a spanner wrench and has resisted all attempts to unscrew it with a gum rubber bottle stopper so evidently I'm missing something here.<P>Aanyone got any clues or any experience with this camera and shutter/lens combination and what it takes to get the front element group out of the shutter?...I'd appreciate any experienced advise...thanks, Rick Smith...</p>

<p>...Hello again Subbarayan and to anyone else who may be readings these posts, I've had to 'shelve' this camera body for most of the last 3 months (since my last post) as I haven't come one step closer towards determining what the problem(s) may be with the entire wind and latching mechanism and haven't been able to locate a service/repair manual for it either...so if anyone, I repeat ANYONE has a copy of this service/repair manual either in print that can be scanned or on a PDF file that they wouldn't mind sharing with me, or has access to one, or knows of a source for one, or has even heard a faint vaguely remembered rumor of one having existed at one time and knows the general location that it was in at that time and wouldn't mind passing this info on to me whether for a token amount or free of charge I would certainly be indebted and beholden to that person or persons...I'm afraid that without one to have some visual references to the internal layout of the camera or an informed diagnosis based on the info I've already posted about what to look for and a possible solution regarding the existing problem/issue with the camera it will be hopelessly destined for the 'spare parts' bin...I've never seen such an absolutely exasperating camera before in all my life and am almost at the point of giving up so needless to say any and ALL help or assistance would be welcome...thanks in advance, Rick Smith...</p>

<p>...Hi again Subbarayan, I hope you read my reply to your email and the description above of what is occurring when I wind this camera and might have another suggestion or perhaps some more info on this matter...surely I'm not the only person who has ever encountered this problem or a similar one with these cameras as I've seen and read far too many posts from owners about them here and elsewhere but none have been very definitive regarding the cause outside of vague references to a 'sticking latch' or that it may be 'mirror related' or any specific corrective action that might be taken other than 'lubing the latch' or 'adjusting a screw in the mirror lift mechanism'...long story short any and all suggestions or pointers would be welcome at this point as I'm not willing to just throw in the towel and give up on this camera but at the same time I'm stumped at this point as I don't have a working example of this camera to use for reference purposes and this is the only example I've ever owned or handled...as I said also earlier I'm generally familiar with the working mechanisms in Pentax, Minolta, Yashica, Exakta, FSU, and other cameras with horizontal focal plane shutters but this one is somewhat different in several respects and I'm at a loss here particularly as to the 'latch' that seems to be a problem with these cameras...so Subbarayan if you have any other ideas or suggestions or if anyone reading these posts has any I would surely appreciate them...thanks, Rick Smith...</p>

<p>...Hi Subbarayan, thanks for getting back with me about this problem with the latch mechanism but unfortunately the ring nut underneath the film reminder disc on top of the wind lever wasn't the problem...I had really hoped it might be the 'mystery fix' but the nut was tight and I even unscrewed it and screwed it back snug just to make sure it hadn't been cross-threaded at some point...oddly enough there was a thin round brass washer/spacer(?) stuck to the adhesive on the underside of the film reminder disc when I lifted it off the top of the wind lever that I'm assuming was just left there as a 'spare' to be used if needed at some point in the future as it contributed in no way to anything that's there now..as I said earlier.the wind lever has spring tension on it at all times and was never loose and will return to the rest position fast when released...if your camera wind mechanism is the same as this one here's what happens when I rotate the wind lever to advance the film/cock the shutter...when the lever is rotated about a quarter of a turn there's an audible 'click' that you can feel also...at that point in the wind lever rotation the wind lever is restricted to forward rotation only and cannot be moved backwards to the rest position...as I advance the wind lever further forward from that point in the rotation I can hear the faint 'click, click, click' of what sounds like the flexible stop tab of a film counter that clicks into place behind the tooth on the gear it's just passed over...this continues until the wind lever has been rotated to about the half-way point in a full turn (170 degrees or so) and at that point there is another audible click and a slight increase in resistance in the wind lever that feels like the metal tabs on the ends of the curtains passing around a roller on the inside of the camera and then even though there a little way further to go in the wind stroke the wind lever is no longer restricted to forward movement only and is free to return to the 'rest' position...so whatever it is that is supposed to catch the first curtain gear (I'm assuming) at that point or at the full-stroke point is not engaging and if the wind lever is released there or at full stroke it will return to the rest position fast as will the curtains under full spring tension...I've read several vague posts referencing this 'latch' or 'pawl' that catches the first curtain gear and some have said that it's inside the camera body and others have said that it's underneath the top gear (first curtain gear?) in the stacked set of two gears but this camera only has one gear about the size of a penny that I see underneath the roundish bottom plate on the bottom of the shutter speed dial shaft inside the bottom of the camera...this one gear drives a smaller gear off to one side and that is surely the gear that's attached to one of the curtain rollers and winds it but if there's a 'pawl' or a 'catch' there underneath this one large gear that's supposed to catch or latch the gear at some point in it's travel I can't see it...I think somewhere in all these posts that I saw that you or someone here had a copy of the repair manual for this camera or some exploded diagrams of it one or the other that had been offered to someone who was having a similar problem but to be honest I can't remember exactly who it was that had this information...at any rate Subbarayan I'm still trying to figure out what it is that I'm missing here so if there's anything that comes to mind to you any help you can lend will be much appreciated...being that there's been a couple of discrepancies in other posts about this 'latch' or 'pawl' and it's exact location in the camera if you have any idea where it is and what it looks like please let me know...diagrams or a repair manual would be really helpful also just for the visual orientation if nothing else...for now thanks again for replying and get back with me on this o.k.?...best, Rick...</p>

<p>...Hi, I have a Praktica (Hanimex) Super TL that was given to me recently by a friend that has an issue with the shutter latching mechanism that I'm trying to address with no success so far...when I wind the camera the 'latch' that catches and holds the shutter in the 'cocked' position doesn't engage and the curtains will return to the 'rest' position as soon as I release the wind lever...I have the bottom plate off the camera and I've looked at and watched everything there while winding the camera and allowing it to unwind and can't for the life of me see anything there that catches the first curtain gear to hold the shutter in the 'cocked' position or either I'm looking at it and don't know what I'm seeing...I've seen the photo that Subbarayan Prasanna supplied of the Nova with the bottom plate removed in a 3-year old thread here regarding repairs on Praktica Super TL's and while the mechanisms on both cameras are very similar indeed I don't know if this 'latch' or 'pawl' that catches the first curtain gear and holds it in the cocked position until the shutter button is pushed is there or if it's inside the body where it can't be seen...from everything I've read about shutter issues with these cameras this seems to be a fairly common problem with them especially if they haven't been used in some time but aside from some comments that I've seen that the shutter 'latch' or 'pawl' tends to freeze in place from lack of use over time and needs to be re-lubricated I've found nothing else bout how to correct this or any photos or a repair manual that would show where it is...I'm familiar with Pentax Spotmatics, K1000's, Yashica TL's, Exakta VX's and Exa's and would've thought that the shutter mechanism in this camera couldn't be that much different than any of the rest of these but I've never used or worked on a Praktica Super TL before and don't know exactly what to look for so I'm stumped at this point...needless to say I don't want to break anything so if there's someone who's familiar with them that could give me a couple of pointers here I would surely appreciate it...Mr. Prassana I've read your notations here in several places and know that you in particular know your way around these cameras well so if you would be so kind as to lend me the benefit of your experience that would be of immense help...thanks in advance to any and all who can be of help and will reply...Rick Smith...</p>

<p>...Hey Matthew and Subbarayan, I know this is a 3-year old thread but I hope both you and particularly Subbarayan are still following any notations or questions regarding shutter issues with this camera...I have a Praktica Super TL (Hanimex) that given to me by a friend that has a shutter problem that I've attempted to address with no success so far...when I wind the camera the 'latch' that catches and holds the shutter in the 'cocked' position does'nt engage and the curtains will return to the 'rest' position as soon as I release the wind lever...I have the bottom plate off the camera and I've looked at and watched everything there while winding the camera and then allowing it to unwind and I can't for the life of me see anything there that catches the first curtain gear to hold the shutter in the cocked position or either I'm looking at it and don't know what I'm seeing...I've seen the photo that Subbarayan supplied of the Nova with the bottom plate removed and they're very similar indeed but I don't know if this 'latch' or 'pawl' that catches the first curtain gear and holds it in the cocked position until the shutter button is pushed is there or if it's inside the body of the camera where it can't be seen...from everything I've read about shutter issues with these cameras this seems to be a fairly common problem with them especially if they haven't been used in some time but aside from some comments that I've seen that the shutter 'latch' or 'pawl' tends to freeze in place from lack of use over time and needs to be re-lubricated I've found nothing else about how to correct this or any photos or a repair manual that would show where it is...I'm familiar with Pentax K1000's, Spotmatics, Yashica TL's, Exakta VX's and Exa's and would've thought the shutter mechanism in this camera couldn't be that much different than any of the rest of these but I've never used or worked on one of these before and don't know exactly what to look for so I'm stumped at this point and don't want to risk breaking anything if someone who knows them better than I can give me a couple of pointers...Subbarayan please give me the benefit of your experience here if you see this note and Matthew anything you can add will be helpful as well...thanks in advance, Rick Smith...</p>