mitch_w1

<p>Or shoot raw for the all important photos - the formals and ceremony - just in case. Shoot jpeg on the reception and other things. I personally shoot raw throughout the entire day.</p>

<p>Another option is to allow internet use on only the second shooter's images that you provided to your clients as part of their package. If your second is any good that should still be quite a few images. Then, if the bride and groom stumble upon your second's photos, you avoid the awkward question of why there are images of them that weren't included in your package. Also, any online usage (web or blog) should also mention the primary photographer's name. Exact wording would be dictated by the primary photographer.</p>

<p>Great idea, Bob. I second shot a wedding yesterday and the primary indicated if I book a wedding he'd love to shoot with me. That's sort of like getting your driver's permit - being able to take the wheel and drive the car - while having a more experienced driver in the passenger seat to make sure you don't screw up. I like it!</p>

<p>You will need a backup camera before you start second shooting (including backup lenses and flash). Even if that means renting backups for the event. </p>

<p>Glad to hear it went well, Bilal. Please post some photos when you have a chance so we can take a look-see. And thank goodness for backup equipment!</p>

<p>There was an excellent thread on this a couple months ago. The links are below. It gets a little fiery and emotional in a couple spots but there is some excellent info to be had here:<br>

http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00VF78<br>

http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00VJUM</p>

<p>Thanks to all of the judges who volunteered their time and expertise towards this fun and motivating competition. And congrats to the winners - your work is truly inspiring! It's a cool little community we've got here. I can't wait for next year's contest!!</p>

<p>James - I'm not sure that first hand experience trumps second-hand experience at all when you're first starting out. In my experience second shooting is essentially an intense, real world wedding workshop. Yes you're shooting, but you're also observing how the primary photographer works and learning the ebb and flow of the wedding. I haven't experienced any of the restrictions you mention but I have learned a tremendous amount second shooting. That's not to say you can't bypass second shooting and just jump right into being the primary photographer. I shot my first wedding without having ever second shot for anyone else - and did a passable job of it. But I will still take the opportunity to second shoot whenever possible because, for me, it is a wonderful learning and skill building opportunity. I say just keep an open mind</p>

<p>Chinh, you can learn quite a bit by lurking but you can learn even more by occasionally posting your own work for criticism and comment. As you know, the people who contribute here have years of experience and they can offer comments and suggestions that are unique to your own work. Give it a try sometime!</p>

<p>Marc, you took the words right out of my mouth.</p>

<p>William, thanks for providing us more detail on your usage of the venerable business card. I'm going to try it.<br>

This is a little off topic but sort of related. My Mom despises emails - won't send 'em and would prefer not to receive them. She practices the somewhat lost art of letter writing... pen to paper. A well written letter somehow feels more thoughtful and heartfelt than that exact same letter sent by email. Definitely more personal. And somehow I think your personalizing your business cards ties into that perception. In this day of runaway technology, instant gratification, of emails and instant messaging, the handwritten note seems to take on more meaning.<br>

Now I feel the sudden urge to write my Mom a letter! thanks.</p>

<p>In no particular order my choices are:<br>

Joey Allen<br>

Natalie Brown-Norberg<br>

Stephen Paul Munn<br>

Robin Fox<br>

Kate Callahan<br>

But kudos to everyone for participating!</p>

<p>Thanks RT and Nadine. Your comments are great, Nadine. As far as "seeing me," which I assume refers to developing a style of my own... I think the key word is "developing." Rome was not built in a day and it looks like I won't be either. I don't see how anyone can force something like that so I will continue to hone my craft and hopefully a more distinct style will begin to emerge. Thanks again.</p>

<p>Hi Brooke, you may want to check out http://photojunction.com/ if you haven't already. From what I understand they used to charge for their album design software but now it's free. I just started using them to design my first album but it's too early for me to recommend them or not. They are associated with Queensberry wedding albums but it's set up so that you can use it with other album companies (Kiss, Asuka, many others). For the other album companies they support they already have guidelines and templates ready to go. And for the others they don't have a partnership with you can just input your own specs to work off of. The "free" part of it is a huge draw for me but if it does not work well I will check out Lumapix since it appears to be highly rated here on photo.net.</p>

<p>Neil, thanks for taking the time to provide those detailed comments.  Very, very helpful.  You are, of course, spot on with your lighting comments, i.e. dragging the shutter and flash technique.  I did attempt to drag the shutter at the wedding to capture more ambient light but apparently not nearly enough.  Will try a hand held 1/15 next time per your suggestion. Realizing these are areas needing improvement I spent a good deal of time yesterday experimenting with dragging the shutter techniques and off-camera flash - both relatively new techniques for me.  I didn't like that my dancing shots were so static so had my wife and daughter dancing feverishly around the living room as I tried to drag the shutter to capture motion trails and ambient light.. with very limited success (I was using the second curtain setting on my flash).  Much more practice is required there.  As for your comment on #10 - definitely contrived!  This was a shot requested by the groom... I assume to show off the quirkiness of their footwear choice.  Thanks again!</p>

<p>Thanks for the feedback, Bob. I will definitely try to be more conscious of posing and bouquet position at the next wedding. Attention to small details like this can really impact a photo.</p>

<p>This was my second wedding. I'm second shooting again in Feb and would like any constructive criticism that can help me further step up my game. FWIW I shot these on two 40Ds. Most of the getting ready shots were on a rented Canon 35L 1.4. Other lenses that saw a lot of use were the 17-40L and 85 1.8. The 70-200 2.8 also saw some use at both the ceremony and reception. Okay, so let the tough love begin! Thanks for your time.<br>

http://mitchelwuphotography.blogspot.com/2010/01/susan-michaels-wedding.html<br>

Ps - spoiler alert to the photo contest judges as I entered one of the photos in this set into the "up to 3 years" category.</p>

<p>William, your daughter's comment was funny and sweet at the same time! She's no holds barred... when talking about Dad!</p>

<p>I would say if you adore Jessica's work (I like her work as well), and have the money to spend, then go ahead and try it. At the very least you'll meet other like-minded folk. And you should come out of it with some nice portfolio pieces. But imo you can't beat second shooting a wedding with a seasoned pro for sheer learning and experience. Sure, you'll have a couple models to shoot at the workshop but shooting model setups is nothing like shooting weddings. As far as learning about how her day flows I don't think a workshop will shed much light on this.</p>

<p>I think it depends on your current abilities and experience and what you're hoping to get out of it. Can you elaborate a little more?</p>

<p>Shot this wedding with friend and fellow photographer, William Innes.</p><div></div>

<p>Thanks, Marc and Nadine, for continuing this conversation. If you'll recall from the previous thread I connected with an established, successful local wedding photographer willing to mentor me. Someone did it for him when he was starting out and now he is, in essence, paying it forward. This individual knows that I have every intention of building my own successful wedding photography business and this has not dampered or compromised the relationship in any way. There is no insecurity on his part (the fact that we work in a very large market may have something to do with that). If one day I am fortunate enough to be in a position to mentor others I will do so without hesitation.<br>

For Sreehari - I connected with my mentor by doing something someone else on this board said is a strict no-no. I researched wedding photographers in the area who's style I liked, did some research on them, and essentially cold called them via email. Out of this I had quite a few get back to me and one, in particular, connected with me. Sometimes it's better not knowing the correct protocol in these matters because then you place no limitations on yourself. Good luck.</p>

<p>Hi Senor. I'm relatively new to this forum so I haven't really learned the personalities here and who is a regular, valuable contributor and who is, well, not. I have to say your earlier posts in this thread had me thinking you were in the latter group. Not so much because of the subject matter but because of the delivery. I should have been cheering you on because you clearly have the up and coming photographer as well as the industry in your best interest. But the antagonistic, confrontational and condescending tone of your posts immediately had me labeling you as one of those trolls you always see stirring stuff up on the other forums. So it was hard to get past that abrasiveness to see your message and that you were indeed passionate about this issue.<br /> I almost don't believe the above post is by the same person as the previous posts because it is completely opposite in tone, respect and emotion. And because of that it was infinitely more thought provoking for me. <br /> Obviously I am not suggesting you change just because I respond to 'Senor A' more than 'Senor B.' In fact now that I realize that there is a 'Senor A' I think I will be more able to keep an open mind to 'Senor B' (if that makes sense).<br /> Of course this is just my own unsolicited personal take and opinion. And who am I but another anonymous person on the internet! Thanks for your passion on this important subject. Happy holidays to you, Senor.</p>

<p>Slightly off topic but I too come here when I'm looking for meaningful dialogue, critique and information. The regulars here give an amazing amount of themselves. If I want petty arguments and immaturity there are a couple other well-known forums that more than fill that need (and I admit are fun to look at when in need of some entertainment). In general this particular forum takes the high road, which I appreciate. Hoping it stays that way.</p>

<p><em>"For me, every single newborn gig Noel does, every senior shoot, every family portrait, becomes a potential networking wedding referral for friends and family members."</em><br>

Hi Marc, can you provide a little more information on the above statement? Do you mean if <strong>you</strong> are approached and asked to shoot a newborn, senior or family portrait gig you pass those along to Noel and thus satisfy the client while making a new contact? <br>

Or do you mean that those are jobs generated by Noel on her own? If the latter how does that turn into a potential wedding referral for you? Does she talk you up and/or pass along your card for future reference?<br>

I'm trying to come up with additional value-added services I can provide to my mentor.<br>

Also, not to embroil myself in the ongoing debate, but I am also willing to provide my services to my mentor for no payment other than the experience I gain. And I consider my time a very valuable resource. That's just me though...</p>