mitch_w1

<p>Yes, you're booked as a 2nd shooter so you should honor that commitment. I do a lot of 2nd shooting for one photographer. At the beginning of the year he gave me the dates of a dozen or so weddings that he'd like me to 2nd shoot with him throughout the year. He knows that I also shoot my own weddings as primary and that those ultimately make me a lot more $$. We've agreed that I can bow out of 2nd shooting any wedding with him as long as I give him at least a month's notice so that he has time to find another 2nd. Anything less than a month and I am committed to 2nd shoot... I won't even bring it up and will just grin and bear it. You might suggest a similar arrangement with the wedding photographer you work with, AFTER you get through your next wedding. In most cases it's a reasonable arrangement.</p>

<p>Dave, I've been to the Wayfarers for a memorial (still waiting for a chance to shoot a wedding there) and you'll be surprised how small the chapel actually is. The small size pretty much dictates that everyone shoots from the back. I think your 85 will be fine on the crop sensor. Maybe rent a 135 or 70-200 for the d700 just to cover yourself? But I think you'll be fine. The chapel is nearly all glass so you'll have plenty of available light to work with.<br>

I just google imaged it and there are only 8 rows of benches on each side of the center aisle. So it is a very small chapel.</p>

<p>Thanks David, I'll take a look. From my perspective though if I book one decent wedding - which to me is a forgone conclusion based on increased inquiries - I will have more than covered the cost of the SEO. I do think there are a lot of factors involved though - region, website effectiveness, being able to capitalize on inquiries, etc that one can't generalize too much. </p>

<p> I agree, Mark. I do those things and it got me to page one in my smaller, local market. But it wasn't doing much for me in the huge LA market.</p>

<p>Just curious how much emphasis you put on search engine optimization for your wedding website. I still consider myself new to wedding photography and feel being searchable on google is an important piece of the puzzle. I'm not saying it's the end-all-be-all, but for me it's a way of getting in front of people that I would not otherwise have had a chance to. Yes, there are tire kickers and price shoppers, but there are also people that value photography and use google as a starting point. There are definitely different schools of thought on this - and I'm sure we'll get some of that here in this thread. I ended up using an SEO guy that was recommended to me by a fellow photographer - no black hat stuff. I live in a medium size city in Los Angeles County. I had no problem getting to page one on my own for my own smaller city but hit a brick wall when trying to rank anywhere of value when searching for Los Angeles wedding photographers. In fact, I was basically so far back in the rankings that I might as well have not even been there. In one month he had me on page one using a couple keyword terms. And a half month after that I'm at the top of page one. It's all been a learning experience for me. But I can say already that traffic and inquiries are up. We'll see if that translates to bookings. Whether or not this was a good investment in my business remains to be seen. Anyone else have a similar experience?</p>

<p>I have and love my 35L. I have and love my 24-70L. I use the 35L during the getting ready and for shots where I want a more 'unique' feel. The 24-70 sees a lot more use the rest of the day and is great for documenting things quickly and efficiently. I'd hate to shoot a wedding without either but if I had to choose one for weddings it would be the 24-70L. </p>

 

<p>Bob, thanks for the kick in the pants to get moving on this. If I remember a similar post you had a year ago you mentioned you don't charge the company a dime to work at their parties, that you just work on spec and charge for the on-location prints. I can see how this would make it VERY appealing to a company... you've removed the one hurdle these days to companies with tight budgets.<br>

I'm also encouraged by your comments about the Chamber of Commerce as I recently met with my local chamber but haven't pulled the trigger on the membership as of yet. I was wondering if it was a worthwhile investment. You helped answer that question for me.<br>

Do you use any special holiday themed backdrops or do you just go with a plain one? Just wondering if that influences print sales.</p>

<p>Count me as a fan. I can shoot an entire wedding on one set of eneloops in the 580EXII. </p>

<p>Your comment about the Asian photographers "squinty eyes" is highly offensive. Says a lot about you. Surprising for someone living among such diversity in the Bay Area. Good luck with your search. </p>

<p>I think the size and position of the watermark makes a difference here. Sure, it is uncommon for photographers to include a watermark on the photos they deliver, but not unheard of. If it's unobtrusive then deal with it. This clearly was not covered in your discussions so in my opinion it's not worth fighting over.<br>

And some photographers provide only low res files for web and small prints. But typically this would all be disclosed and agreed to before hand, in the contract. Again, not having anything specifically discussed or in writing about what size prints leaves this a big gray area for you. You both have made assumptions on what would be acceptable in this case. Technically she may have honored her end of the agreement since you can go out and make prints... just not large ones. <br>

For the B&W photos there were probably white balance issues with the photos, which converting to B&W remedied. But no way to know for sure. Like David says, the photographer has the right to process photos how they see fit.<br>

We're clearly just hearing one side of the story here. I'm not saying she's right and your wrong, or vice versa, but things like this are rarely B&W (no pun intended). Yes, by all means consult a lawyer if you feel like pursuing this further, but I'm guessing not a lot was paid for this photographer's service and it's your word against hers. Unless you have more details on what was agreed to in writing you may be out of luck.</p>

<p>Nadine is right, Justin is asking about design companies. However, he is asking about design companies because he's frustrated by how long it takes him to design an album in Photoshop. In which case I think Marios is right with his response. I used to design pages in photoshop as well. Tedious to say the least. Then I started using Photojunction (a free design program) and my album design time decreased dramatically. Like In Design it saves every page you design as a template so you can go back and use it as is or as a starting point for future layouts. Custom designing an actual album start to finish now takes less than an hour.<br>

With that said, if I had so many weddings that even taking an hour to design an album was a nuisance I wouldn't hesitate to use an outside designer to do them for me. Same with processing photos. Currently I do both myself though.</p>

<p>I'm not sure if this is what he means but I always try to shoot engagement sessions and break bread with my wedding clients so that come wedding day we already know each other and are most likely friends. This makes a huge difference to the wedding day shoot because then they feel like a friend is photographing their wedding as opposed to a stranger. The clients are more relaxed, allowing their personalities to shine through. It makes a big difference in the photos.</p>

<p>Just an observation... there are a lot of "I"s in your message. I'd suggest taking a different approach and maybe explain what's in it for the established photographer (besides training their own future competition). With that said, Bob's offer is generous and I'd jump on that if I were you. </p>

<p>I rented quite a bit when I was just starting out. it was valuable in allowing me to try equipment out I was thinking about getting. I've since purchased most of the stuff I rented and don't foresee the need to rent anything else in the future. But you never know.</p>

<p>I used to use photoshop. Now using photojunction, which is a free program. With a bit of practice it's a lot easier and more efficient to use than photoshop. Each layout you create is automatically saved as a template for future use and/or customization. I can design a 20 side album in about an hour now. This album was designed using photojunction - <a href="http://mitchelwuphotography.blogspot.com/2011/05/wedding-album-kay-trey.html">Wedding Album</a></p>

<p>50% due at contract signing. Balance due 45 days before event.<br>

After wedding I do this in this order:<br>

blog 20 to 30ish photos from the wedding. These will be some of the strongest photos from the day and gives the client a feel for what images will be the foundation of the album.<br>

Create slideshow. This will be 60-80 images, again most of what will make it into the album. The clients have now had two opportunities to ooh and ahh over their photos and see what I obviously consider the most important to telling their story.<br>

Share personal online gallery with client with final culled down set.<br>

Create and send album layouts to client. I choose all photos for the album myself and allow 2 go arounds on changes. At this point the client has seen what I believe are the strongest images that tell their story and are for the most part already on board. I have only ever had a client make very minor changes to my layouts. Allow the client to choose their own photos and you run the risk of them taking forever. I always shoot with telling their story in mind... with the album in mind... so who better to choose the photos?</p>

<p>Ask for $100/hr only if you want to make sure you don't get the job. Average 2nd shooting gigs in Southern Calif ranges from 200 to 400 for an 8 hour day. That is for experienced second shooters and for shooting only, the primary photog does all the post processing.</p>

<p>I have a G11 but won't even bring that. My wife has an even smaller Canon point & shoot we'd bring along for quick photo ops with friends. No way am I bringing my 5D.</p>

<p>And just a dose of reality. San Francisco is a very expensive city. I don't know your financial situation but you will probably want to line up a full time job first and then work at your photography as a part time thing until you build up more experience. It's going to be a lot of work. Many people will fail at this. But if it's your passion, your dream, then you will find a way to make it work. </p>

<p>You need to step back from primary photographer role and assist and second shoot for a year. Do yourself, and especially your future clients, a favor. $500 or $5000 makes no difference in my opinion. </p>

<p>Look into Black River Imaging press printed books. I've used them for my guest sign-in books and the clients love them. I go with a canvas photo wrap cover and Art Paper pages inside... which is similar to watercolor paper. The paper has a rich, high-end feel to it. The paper is beautiful and ink takes to it wonderfully... with lower risk of smearing than other paper. I know of several other wedding pros that use this same book/paper for their guestbooks. BRI's linen paper is also a popular option for a reduced-smear paper.</p>

<p>Search around - there used to be a code somewhere that will get you 50% off the first year of smugmug.</p>

<p>The 5D, 7D and even 40D are all options. I shoot with a 5D original + two 40Ds as backup. You can pick up a very nice used 40D for quite a reasonable price these days if on a tight budget.</p>

<p>I second what Rob says about the e-sesh. Even if you don't charge for it there is a good chance you can upsell the guestbook etc. Having a beautiful sample guestbook to show clients will help facilitate this greatly. And it really does make the wedding day much easier for everyone - the e-sesh is a great opportunity to connect with your clients before the big day.</p>

<p>In the future you need to specify in your contract, at a minimum, the following:<br>

- what your deliverables are or if something is available at an additional cost. If something is specifically not included or being made available that should be noted as well. Your contract and/or communications should leave nothing to question when it comes to deliverables as this is where you will likely run into trouble if details are lacking.<br>

- Once a CD or DVD is provided to the client it is their responsibility to safeguard or back it up. And as William Porter suggests - put a time limit on how long you are responsible for keeping the images (even if you normally keep them forever you don't want to be on the hook for that).</p>