rt_jones

May 27, 2010

If I do decide to rent the 70-200mm 2.8 non IS would I still benefit from the tripod? ie. Lower shutter speed and lower aperture for dark surroundings.

Without question, any non-IS lens will benefit from using a tripod.

And I don't know why there's so much confusion in this thread about what you want to do which is, shoot "up the aisle" from the rear. :) Maybe this means "down" the aisle for folks in the Southern Hemisphere. Of course even here in the Northern part of the world our brides do indeed walk, "up" the aisle.

You will do fine with that 700-200 non-IS f/2.8 on a tripod. I 2nd shoot and sometimes use mine this way. I prefer however to sit in a pew and use a monopod though. It gets me closer and is a little less obtrusive.

Timing your shots is key. For instance, when shooting somebody at the podium who is speaking you need to wait for a pause. I also shoot in low-speed continuous during the ceremony. This nets me 3 rapid shots with one shutter press. The middle photo is generally the sharpest as the effects of the camera's moving "innards" have been absorbed by the first and last photo.

May 26, 2010

No, of course not. But that's not what's at issue here.

William, the issue is what I chose to take issue with. :)

"the parties agree to cooperation and positive communication for the best possible result within the definition of this contract."

There is no fairly "standard legal meaning" in this statement and the tone of this demand sounds ludicrous.

And if the groom passes out, I will still take photos and live up to my end of the agreement. He just won't be in too many of them. (Except for "one" showing him flat on his back should anyone wonder why).

I don't know about the rest of you, but I take peoples' money to shoot photos at their pleasure - not judge their behavior.

May 25, 2010

COOPERATION: The parties agree to cooperation and positive communication for the best possible result within the definition of this contract.

I don't understand. How can you force the people that are paying you to "cooperate" and communicate? If they don't jump when you say "jump" do you walk out?

May 25, 2010

I was in the same boat as you regarding reach at long venues and didn't think 200mm would be long enough. This focal length does fine on a crop sensor. If you really need crisp images of knuckle hair during things like the ring exchange, just move closer, get what you need and then drop back.

May 25, 2010

I'm disappointed to see that Canon doesn't offer a zoom that is 2.8 AND zooms to 300mm

Just curious, how often do you need 300mm at a wedding? And would you use it enough to warrant a $6000 price tag?

May 24, 2010

Maybe you could at least scan and digitize them before throwing them out?

Fortunately, I don't have this problem shooting all digital.

May 18, 2010

"...I am kind of not liking the idea she will have the same couple and same location and posing I use and she will be taking credit for them as her pictures."

How can she take credit if they have your watermark on them?

May 18, 2010

As of this minute, the iPad would have some "wow" factor if you used it to demo your portfolio. But when this wears off, all you have is an undersized display. My macbook works just fine for this.

Personally, I'd rather let them thumb through a real album sitting on their lap. It doesn't get any more real than this.

May 18, 2010

The "nice ambient" is misleading because it is being augmented by an on-camera 580EX bounced against a high (but white) ceiling.

Well, at what point were you going to divulge this? Your description of all this goes form using "Sunpak 383s" (The plural of a single sunpak) and now, a 580ex and just a single sunpak?

And Nadine, I agree with mostly everything you said. The only difference being Joey who has done this a lot so I can only assume he knew what he was getting into. Myself personally, I wouldn't have shot at f/2.2. Even a group of 3 or 4 with 3-1/2 feet DOF is beyond my comfort level. I might do two shots with different settings for each one but I'd always have a trusty f/5.6 to fall back on.

May 18, 2010

F/2.2 is over the limit of “safe” for DoF, for a Full Length Shot (Horizontal Format), Five People Deep, using a 5D.

Not really William. f/2.2, 35mm from 15 feet away gives you 8 feet DOF. Plenty of room. The proof is in Joey's photos. Would I attempt this? Heck no. Especially with the nice ambient there and the frontal fill light to bring out the subject exposure.

May 17, 2010

"RT, I am a fan of the omnibounce, it doesn't lose anymore than one stop of light compared to direct flash and it does a nice job of opening up the background. I routinely use it in halls with ceilings over 30 feet high (see image below)."

David, I am certainly not "critiquing" your use of the omnibounce. Indeed, I am genuinely intrigued by that fact that someone with your experience and talent can actually use this thing so successfully. I never could.

Of course I never used them as a "pair" like you do. Regarding dimly light venues, I use a bounce card attached to my on-camera flash and while I find frontal subject exposure to be spot on via ETTL, I can't seem to get rid of that "cave" look as there really isn't much ambient to pick up. So if I understand you correctly, you basically drag a 12-15 foot "stick" around with an attached speedlite/omnibounce to throw light behind your subject?

May 17, 2010

They are nice pictures indeed Joey but that last one shows why I don't venture into the wild without a light meter in a non studio environment where time is short. Those whites/blacks were actually blown out by that brolly. Nothing a quick reading on somebody's face wouldn't fix.

And based on the wonderful ambient light you found yourself with, I wonder if simple on camera flash with a bounce card wouldn't have provided the necessary fill.

But I'm back seat driving of course. Like I said, nice photos.

May 16, 2010

David, you seem to be a fan of the omnibounce diffuser but my experience with gymnasiums is that the ceilings and walls are too far away to render these things effective. They eat light and your flash recycles too slowly for the type of event the OP was shooting. Maybe in a smaller room they work where the walls are pristine white. (But under those conditions basic bouncing would suffice).

And I've never shot a fast paced graduation but I've watched those "specialty" pros that do this for a living. It appears to me they are just using a lot of direct flash in ETTL. With the changing subject distances and varying lighting I tip my hat to those that can do this on manual flash power settings.

May 14, 2010

Other than the processional/recessional, there are only 2 common photo-ops in just about every ceremony. The ring exchange and the kiss. (Candle lighting/Sand filling might be another). In my books everything else is a "candid" of sorts and depends on they type of service.

Catholic weddings for instance generally have a lot of "family" invited to participate in things like podium readings, candle lighting, singing, etc., so we try to at least get those folks if we can do so without being disruptive.

And those photographers that do Mormon weddings don't get any ceremony photos because they're not even allowed inside.

May 14, 2010

As a 2nd shooter that does the occasional solo wedding I can't justify the cost but most of the people I work with use higher powered strobes/mono lights to do the things speedlights just weren't designed to do. You can get an AB1600 for the price of a single 580ex with change to spare. Of course you'll need that change to buy a 100' extension cord as portable power costs almost as much as the AB itself. :)

And at the risk of irking the strobist camp, my point here is to use the right tool for the job at hand. If you're ever going to be in a situation where power is needed then get something that will deliver that power. I just don't buy into using speedlights exclusively for weddings.

May 10, 2010

RT--just meter the off camera flashes (in manual) with the on camera turned off. If the on camera is fill, it only adds maybe 1/3 to 1/2 stop to the exposure.

Yes, this is what I will do with radio. Right now though, I have to turn the on-camera 580ex flash off via the menu but still need it powered up to trigger the slaves. I then turn the 580 flash back on and figure about 1/8 stop for fill, sometimes more. I'll try your reception advice. Thanks.

@Ed: You've got stronger arms than me my friend. I grunt and groan with a 6 oz. Demb flash bracket :) Actually, that rig looks more intimidating than it probably is. I recognize all that stuff.

May 10, 2010

Yes Tom, thanks for the feedback.This is overwhelming for somebody new to radio triggers.

I took a deep breath and asked myself again what it is I want to do:

(1) I want ETTL only on camera - just for fill and primarily for reception shooting. I never use ETTL for remote lights.

(2) I want better firing reliability - as compared to Canon's IR system under certain conditions. The twisting and contorting of the remote units gets old.

(3) I want to meter accurately with my Sekonic. I only do this during formals and if there's time under contrasty conditions. Right now, the preflash from the on-camera 580exII screws up my readings half the time and I can't turn the 580 off because it triggers the remotes (duh RT). I'm hoping radio will allow me to get the 580exII out of "Master" mode and correct this since it won't have to trigger any slaves now. (But in ETTL mode I think it will still need to preflash "itself". I need to play with this and see).

(4) Finally, there's cost. Not sure I'm ready to pay $700+ for my first experience with radio. (Not interested in the ebay route either).

With something like the Cybersyncs I could be all set for about $250 which includes cables. I also like the small footprint of the CST transmitter - should be easy to tuck away somewhere as it won't be in the hotshoe and I don't mind plugging it into the PC port with a screwlock cable. Plus, there are plenty of people that will attest to Nadine's claims regarding reliability. (Strangely, the most favorable triggers I read about all seem to share that 2.4ghz range as do the Cybersyncs).

As far as the drawbacks to basic triggers for me:

(1) No High speed sync... well, I can "wing it" outdoors with either the 580exII alone or use a remote 430exII when I want to shoot long via IR.

(2) Controlling flash power remotely… that would certainly be nice. But I'm getting fat so waddling to and fro will do me some good. (Actually, I technically arrived at "fat" some time ago I think).

So… after researching this for a month now, I've just come to the conclusion that radio induced ETTL isn't quite ready for prime time. (Particularly with the 580exII). And if a lot of this is due to "pilot error" then my flying skills are probably worse than most.

May 10, 2010

Hi Tom. Thanks for replying.

The Radio Popper website and possible configurations are about as cryptic to me as a Federal tax form. The "Popper" terminology is overwhelming.

(1) What port are you connecting the JRx transmitter to - the sync port on the camera or the sync port on the 580exII? If you are connecting it to the flash, this allows the on-camera 580exII to shoot in full ETTL with a simple sync cable (no mods to the flash)?

(2) I assume you're using the JrX "Studio" transmitter as it's required to use the RPcubes, right?

Other than no High Speed Sync with the JrX system which I could live without, these are appealing. I would love the ability to adjust power of remote flashes from across a large reception venue since right now it's a "guess" when I set them up and the light changes throughout the night.

Edit: Nadine, I'm finding in my web travels that we "on-camera" wireless folks are a minority. Especially with regard to ETTL and manual remote units.

May 9, 2010

Nadine, what you describe makes perfect sense... keep the on camera flash in ETTL mode, connect a no-frills radio transmitter to a PC port just to fire the remotes. It's quite elegant in its simplicity and I don't know why I didn't think of it before.

I'm not too keen on Michael's little cybersync doofer-thingy sticking out of the camera's PC port to hold the transmitter though. I'd rather fire the transmitter via the PC port on the 580exII but I'm confused as to whether that will work without the mod you eluded to.

I need to research this.

Thanks again.

May 9, 2010

... and actually taking advantage of the ETTL functions with the built-in IR sensors.

But it's still infra red. Don't want to fool with the nuances anymore. That's why I want radio with ETTL.

I'd suggest that you skip playing with the umbrellas and try an omnibounce on each flash.

But to use an omnibounce, you need something to bounce from. I had one of those light-eaters once and tossed it.

May 9, 2010

For formals dump The ettl

I don't shoot the formals in ETTL and I use the L308. But yes, I want to start doing this with radio and also want a single flash to be able to use ETTL.

It is invented for situations when manual isnt practical.

Exactly. And for me this is the reception when I move around and shoot from different positions. Right now I can set up one or two 430's in corners, at say 1/2 power bounced at a wall or ceiling, then keep my on camera 580exII in ETTL for fill and just move around all I want. This works but there are too many misfires from the 430's because of the infra-red. (Also, they are blocked at times).

May 9, 2010

I shoot with two 50D's and agree with those suggesting full frame. Just for the better ISO.

May 9, 2010

Maybe this belongs in the lighting forum but I trust the input of folks here that do weddings who can hopefully relate to my needs. By trade I'm primarily a 2nd shooter but occasionally fill in as a main shooter every now and then. (I mainly get the low-budget overflow from those I shoot for which is just fine).

With regard to lighting now, I shoot alone and do nothing fancy:

For indoor formals I will mount two 430exII's as slave units on light stands with 45" reflective umbrellas. These are set to manual at 1/2 power mostly. Positioning of the light stands varies depending on the size of the group and what I want.

I also mount a 580exII on camera pointing straight up along with a demb flip-it adjusted forward for just a tad of fill - maybe 1/8 to 1/2 power. (80% of my church venues have ceilings too high to bounce).

The on camera 580exII is of course set as master and orchestrates the trio via infra-red (line of sight).

Before shooting, all of this is metered with a Sekonic L308s by simply activating the 10 second timer and walking to "the spot" and measuring the light from my nose. This system works pretty well but I do have problems:

(1) The light meter won't always register correctly because that short "pre-flash" that's fired from the 580ex when it communicates with the others screws it up at times. (I'm often told to open up to f/0.1 because the meter stops before the other lights fire).

(2) Basically, I'm just tired of fiddling with the sensor on the remote 430's to make sure they're pointing at the master. And of course there's that performance hit one takes with the IR in direct sunlight. (I will usually put my 580exII off camera and closer to the subject for fill when shooting from far away with a 70-200).

(3) This "line of sight" setup doesn't perform well at dark receptions with the cheesy disco ball churning out all kinds of ghastly colors of the light spectrum. (That's what I'm blaming it on anyway).

So… I want to go to radio wireless and while I'm at it… I'd like ETTL capabilities. At a reception for instance, I'll still setup one or two remote flashes in manual somewhere to boost the ambient but would like my on camera 580exII to be able to fill in just a smidgen via ETTL with some bounce if I can. I just like this possibility especially during first dances because I never know what lighting environment the DJ is going to throw my way. Plus, I'm moving "in and out" too much among the crowd and don't have time to stop up/down if I'm in manual flash mode. ETTL was supposedly designed to make things like this easier. I know others drag an off-camera flash around with them but that's not for me - and again, I shoot alone so no assistant. And I'm not very good at holding a camera at 1/30 with one hand while holding up a flash with the other.

So… is radio with remote manual flash AND on camera ETTL possible?

I know the Pocket Wizards (TT1, TT5) and Radio Poppers (PX) provide full ETTL capabilities and I *think* they can do this. However, I'm reading mixed reviews for both - especially regarding these newer ETTL PW's when used in conjunction with the 580exII. (Something about Canon's lack of frequency shielding in the darned thing).

The PW's do have hot shoes so no cords to bother with and their TT1 on-camera transmitter has a hot shoe where one can park a flash unit. Not sure how I'd do this with the ETTL "Poppers" though. And then with the Poppers there are sync cords to buy, 430exII hot shoes, stickers to cover over sensors, etc. Of both units, the Poppers seem to be the most reliable though depending on what you read.

Again, if all I did were formals then full manual flash is no problem. Plus there are a myriad of radio triggers available to do this. Maybe there are those that feel ETTL is overrated but at the reception I'd like the ability to do both manual and ETTL at the same time.

Does anyone have wedding experience shooting with either of these 2 systems and also uses on-camera ETTL?

Thanks!

May 8, 2010

Will,

Your experience describes many of us. I am now "fumbling" with 2 off camera strobes and 1 on camera fill flash. TTL seems to work itself out a lot of times but then you go with wireless triggers/manual flash it just gets harder outside the studio. Heck, even Nadine has a cheat sheet on that Sunpak of hers so I don't feel so bad. (Assuming that's not her dry-cleaning receipt of course.)

May 8, 2010

I think most couples would be surprised to see our before and after versions. Personally, I'd prefer they didn't see a lot of my "before" pics. Other than the formals, just about everything I take needs some kind of PP beyond fixing white balance.

My feeling is they booked you based on viewing your non-RAW portfolio so that's what you're selling. I'm not a training ground for aspiring photoshoppers looking for material to practice on.

Tell them you can't have 2 different versions of your work floating around - everything you do is unique and "one of a kind".

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Posts posted by rt_jones