john_hinkey

<p>I would now say to Nikon - for those of us that don't need all the expensive external buttons and dials, give us a version that is now slightly smaller, lighter with very similar specs that is not made in Japan.<br>

Personally I would love a very compact FX body with modern design features - I would forgo the ergonomics for the gain in compactness. </p>

<p>Steve B - your analysis is exactly the way I've been looking at it: What am I getting for my $$ relative to a D610 or for nearly equivalent $$ a D800 or even an APS-C or m43 mirrorless system (camera + lenses).<br>

I have no bones at all with the specifications, controls, "looks", etc. It's for sure a very capable DSLR, but, I just can't get past the asking price for what it is.<br>

I have a lot of excellent manual focus glass (Nikon, Leica, Voigtlander) so I'm very interested in how the OVF performs, but even if it's a stellar OVF for manual focus it will be hard to justify such a steep price.<br>

Having a D800, which is an excellent all around camera, I have to ask how much I "need" a second camera with the Df's specifications for the asking price. Personally at $2800 I can't make that case.<br>

I will be one sitting on the sidelines watching the new and used prices in the next year or so to see if the cost comes down to a reasonable level for me. I'll give the camera a try out in the store as well to get a first hand impression as I have to hold a camera in my hand first before buying.</p>

 

<p>Well Bjorn says that he had no troubles focusing his f/1.2 or f/1.4 lenses with the OVF - we'll see if that is indeed true as more people actually us it with MF Nikkors.<br>

<br />It just feels to me that the concept was rushed - if it could have been thought out some more it could be a really fine photographic tool for the same amount of $$.</p>

<p>Like the look, dislike the execution of the idea and the price.<br /> Contrary to popular belief, there are a lot of AI, AIS lenses that hold their own on 36MP, hence the idea of old, soft MF Nikkors is no excuse for 16MP. Some of my sharpest lenses on my D800 are AI/AIS Nikkors (in fact some MF Nikkors have no AFS peer). It's cost control and/or product differentiation at work, not lack of sharp old glass. I'm OK with that.<br /> What I'm not OK with is the lack of any innovation with this camera and lack of logical follow-through on the design. External controls are nice, but it truly is a Frankenstein of a camera that appears to be designed by committee after someone had a great idea at Nikon. It has the price of a D800, but much less capability and is neither fish nor fowl regarding a step towards older film camera ergonomics.<br /> If they wanted to built a MF-Nikkor optimized camera they failed: Focusing screen fixed, no extra focusing aids, low eye relief.<br /> If they wanted to build a much more compact, yet highly capable DSLR they failed: It's still pretty heavy and not all that much smaller, especially compared to the new competition, and it's crippled in too many ways.<br /> If they wanted to build a D700 successor they failed: No where near D700 capabilities (other than the 16MP sensor)<br /> If they wanted to innovate in technology or camera design they failed: Not one new innovative feature (I don't consider external dials and "retro" styling innovative)<br /> If they wanted to build an entry level FF DSLR for the masses they failed: Priced way too high and is either lacking features or has too many high end features.<br /> Now that all being said, as with any Nikon DSLR it is surely capable of taking excellent images and it will appeal to people. Personally as an owner of a D800 (and D80, D300, and D700 before that) I was looking forward to a different tool than my D800 that was far more optimized for using MF glass and hence am disappointed with the camera's capabilities:<br /> - 39 AF points - I could live with 5 as long as they were spread out across the frame and were all f/8<br /> - Fixed focusing screen - please allow us the option to swap it out for better options, even if we need to pay a premium for it<br /> - Better on camera controls - though I appreciate it, you didn't have to go all the way back to the F3, FA era to come up with something ergonomic and more functional than the high end DSLRs for more metered shooting<br /> - No 10 pin remote - really?<br /> - No true mechanical mirror lockup - really?<br /> - No built-in viewfinder cover - really?<br /> - Lack of video I get, but many will not<br /> - etc., etc.</p>

<p>So, would I own such a camera? Yes, but not at a D800 price level. For this camera, with it's specifications, I'd only be interested at $2K or less. And even then I'd have a long hard look at the competition.</p>

<p>Just too many things that are "cheap" on this camera for a $2800 body:<br /> - 39 pt AF system<br /> - No built-in VF cover<br /> - No 10 pin connector<br /> - No video (I can do without video, but others need it)<br /> - 16MP (why not 24?)<br /> So I'd be getting for $2800<br /> - Excellent (hopefully - we don't know yet) viewfinder<br /> - External dials/switches<br /> - Smaller/lighter<br /> - Threaded shutter release<br>

- Non-AI lens mounting</p>

<p>Not sure it makes sense to me as a D800 owner to have this as a second or only body. In 5 years this will surely be a classic after the price has dropped a lot, but right now????</p>

<blockquote>

<p><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=323291">Dieter Schaefer</a><a href="/member-status-icons"><img title="Frequent poster" src="/v3graphics/member-status-icons/1roll.gif" alt="" /></a>, Nov 04, 2013; 01:45 p.m.</p>

<p>Given the looks, it is at least appropriately named: <strong>D</strong>igital <strong>F</strong>rankenstein.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I've been calling it that for a bit now too. I find that it's a very odd mix of high end and low end features that makes it hard for me to figure out if I want one. The rumored price is high end, but with so many low end features it's neither fish nor fowl to me.<br /> The only thing left is what the viewfinder is looking like inside. It had better be stellar and allow changeable focusing screens.<br /> So far Nikon has rummaged through the designer parts bin as it has features from almost every camera:<br /> - D600 AF sytem<br /> - AF-On from the D800, etc.<br /> - 16MP from D4 (which is not a justification for a higher price)<br /> - Made in Japan: D800, D4, etc.<br /> - BKT button a la D600<br /> - No 10 pin connection, a la D600<br /> - etc. etc.</p>

<p>There will be many many howls if the DF doesn't have an excellent, MF-optimized OVF at the very least.<br>

Also howls if there is no other magic other than an excellent OVF, external controls, and Nikon prices it above the D610.<br>

I also noticed that it likely does not have a 10-pin connector. This is truly looking like a Frankenstein of a camera that grabs features from an F3 or F4, D600, D800, and D4 puts them in a blender and out comes the DF which makes it really hard to tell where they will be pricing it.<br>

If it doesn't have an excellent OVF with interchangeable screens or a built-in EVF then it may be quite hard for me to go back down from 36MP all the way to 16MP.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=959573">Didier Lamy</a><a href="/member-status-icons"><img title="Subscriber" src="/v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub10.gif" alt="" /></a>, Nov 03, 2013; 09:34 a.m.</p>

 

<p>So far, we have seen ~all of the front, most of the top, and only the top right quarter of the back. This suggests that the missing 3/4 contains the final mystery. What could they be hiding there?</p>

 

</blockquote>

 

<p>Didier - I've been thinking the same thing. They have given looks over most of the camera. We have not seen the back of the viewfinder, rear LCD or the left side of the LCD. If they have not shown us most of the camera there must be some surprises left.<br>

This leaves me to believe that either the viewfinder is removable or there is an EVF stuck in the viewfinder - e.g. their recent patent on such a configuration. Maybe the LCD is monochrome for reduced power consumption and the EVF is used for color picture review. The in viewfinder EVF would draw much less power than the rear LCD.<br>

Two more nights and we'll find out.</p>

 

<p>The next video seems to reveal a lot, but still many mysteries remain.</p>

<p>It also appears to have:<br>

- Round rear viewfinder<br>

- LCD (of course, but some thought it might not)<br>

- Shutter speed dial with the S, Cl, Ch, Q, etc. switch underneath that<br>

- One more dial on the other side of the VF hump that is likely the ISO + EC settings<br>

- Shutter button plus something else next to the shutter speed button (probably the on/off?)<br>

- No aperture ring on the 50/1.8G<br>

- Still has that mystery button above the lens release and just below and to the side of the VF. Who knows what that is, though I know what I want it to be.<br>

- The back definitely looks more sophisticated than the D610 - much more like the D800. <br>

I think this is going to be pricey.</p>

<p>Well, #5 is up. <br>

If you want dials and switches this camera has'em. Also has a dedicated AF-On and a AF/AE lock button and a rear thumb dial. Looks like it has all the amenities except no built-in flash. Viewfinder looks quite large from the side - so it should be good.<br>

<br />Since is has a dedicated AF-On button would this place it ABOVE the D600/D610 in the lineup and hence price?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I really wished John hadn't posted those "specs" here as I am afraid that Shun will lock this thread down now - this site isn't meant to be used to spread rumors.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sorry, well, I can no longer edit it. Shun can delete it if he wants. <br>

Not sure where the line is to cross to not spread rumors. So if I talk about it having 16MP in a paragraph in a post is that different than listing it in a bulleted list? I didn't link to anything either. Much of this thread is speculation and hence is spreading rumors.</p>

<p>Lannie - there is NO place that is reliable for information that is rumored for an un-announced camera, but from the site that shall Nameless Remain:</p>

<ul>

<li>The new camera will be called <strong>Nikon DF</strong> which stand for "<em>Digital Fusion</em>"</li>

<li>Nikon FM2 like design, but with a larger pentaprism</li>

<li>Most likely be available in two colors - all black and silver/black (a.k.a. as Panda version)</li>

<li>Standard Nikon F-mount</li>

<li>Pentaprism viewfinder (meaning the camera will not be mirrorless)</li>

<li>16.2MP 36x23,9 full frame sensor (same as in the D4?)</li>

<li>The AF system of the Nikon DF will be most likely the same as in the D610 with 39 points</li>

<li>SD memory card</li>

<li>2016-pixel RGB image sensor</li>

<li>9-cell framing grid display</li>

<li>3D color matrix metering II</li>

<li>Native ISO range: 100-12,800 (incl. ISO 50 and ISO 102,400)</li>

<li>5.5 fps for up to 100 shots</li>

<li>3.2" LCD screen</li>

<li>Expeed 3 processor</li>

<li>Battery:EN-EL14</li>

<li>Dimensions: 143.5 x 110 x 66.5mm</li>

<li>Weight: 765g</li>

<li>No video recording capabilities</li>

<li>The camera will meter even with non-AI lenses down to full aperture</li>

<li>The camera will ship with a new special edition Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G lens to match the look/design of the body</li>

<li>The camera will have physical controls and excellent build quality (which explains the 765g weight)</li>

<li>Nikon calls it a "<em>hybrid</em>" camera - not sure what exactly they mean with that</li>

<li>The Nikon DF will have settings for 1:1, 3:2 and 16:9 aspect ratios</li>

<li>The announcement will be on November 5th right on time for <em>Le Salon de la Photo</em> show that will take place in Paris (November 7-11, 2013)</li>

</ul>

<p>That's as good as it gets for now. Lots of mysteries to solve for sure even with the above non-confirmed specs.</p>

 

<p>Specs? Just Google "Nikon DF" and you will find what you need. As were are not allowed to post links to that silly site that shall remain nameless.</p>

<p>Yes, tonight we should get a much more detailed look at the camera - only two more teasers to go and I suspect the last teaser won't show everything - gotta leave something for the announcement day.</p>

<p>Oh man you are so behind the curve on this!<br>

Over at NR they have analyzed the image. Here is my own version, but ignore the bit about the built-in scalloped hood:<br>

<img src="http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/01/880101.png" alt="" width="986" height="582" /><br>

Which explains most of it. The biggest mystery is the silver button on the lower right side of the viewfinder - does it lock the mirror up, does it allow the VF to be removed, or ??</p>

<p>If you folks were unaware of Nikon's DF campaign you just have not been wasting enough time on the internet!<br>

I think Nikon knows it's not worth the $$ to have a large advertising campaign on TV, etc. when the target audience is tuned to the internet and places like NR and DPR will spread the word far and wide to the targeted audience (advanced enthusiasts and pros).</p>

<p>I wonder if there might be a mini top LCD panel with just the basics that cannot be shown immediately from the top dials. Since it's not a small camera there may be some room on the top for such a thing.</p>

 

<p>What I've labelled as a "release button" looks silver and is similar to the mirror up lock lever+silver button on some SLRs. So perhaps it's the release button for an interchangeable viewfinder or the mirror lock-up button (with the black lever not visible) for true mirror lock up (non-electrical).<br>

Having a non-electrical mirror lock-up would be fantastic. Lock it up and use the image sensor + EVF for focusing and less noisy operation. Plus being non-electrical it would certainly save power . . . perhaps the next video we'll get more info on that mystery button.<br>

Certainly there is a PC sync screw on cover on the right, and the large circular thing on the left side is too big for a 10-pin connection and is likely a control wheel/dial. I bet the 10-pin connection is on the top or side (or hidden from view up to now).</p>

<p>Perhaps you are right - the more I look at it now the less I think it's a built-in lens hood and is the bayonet for a lens hood. I just looked at my 50/1.8G and it looks very close to the same if not identical.<br>

Drats!</p>

<p>From the #4 video you can see that the new 50/1.8 has a built-in scalloped lens hood. What appears to be a ribbed rubber focusing ring. From the previous video it has a M/AF switch and a chrome ring for grabbing onto while taking the lens on and off. Can't tell yet if there is an aperture ring or not (it would be black and hard to see in the video screen grabs).<br>

It may still have an aperture ring, but instead of a mechanical one it could be electronic - we'll see. It sure sounded like an aperture ring clicking in the first video, but it could have been another lens on the camera.</p>

<p>I made this after video #3:<br>

<img src="http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/01/880101.png" alt="" width="986" height="582" /></p>

<p>It up now.<br>

http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/microsite/purephotography/<br>

Close-ups of the front of the 50/1.8. Looks like a built-in scalloped lens hood that slides out.<br>

Focusing ring looks like it has a rubber ribbed surface on it too. Looks pretty cool.<br>

More image at the end of the front of the body - shows the VF hump now and I think they'll be a lot more to see when the folks do the frame grabs.</p>

<blockquote>

 

<p>This darned thing better be really, really good after all this build up.<br>

--Lannie</p>

 

</blockquote>

 

<p>You got that right. <br>

I think we get another video tonight at 12am eastern in the US. Nice to be on the West coast as that's just 9pm. This episode he's supposed to be in the city.</p>

 

<p>No way it will be a digital back so your excitement can go back up.</p>