Jump to content

laurent-paul

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    1,167

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 

Posts posted by laurent-paul

    I feel cheated.

    in Business of Photography

    Posted

    Carina,

    May I just express a few personal thougths.

     

    I don't think anybody ever said you don't know anything, but there are certains aspect you clearly don't know about, and that was why you asked this question. Everybody was just trying to exhange idea and experiences on thoses aspects and practice you only now started to experience.

     

    As for beeing "cocky", nobody went that far in this thread either. The fact is that your two original posts are emotional : But anything having to do with art is by definition emotional. That is understandable. But one thing to learn ( and that is a very difficult think to learn and takes many years of constant practice and experiences ) is to try to take some distance with the creative, therefore emotional part of our work, especially when we accept a comercial assignement : you'll soon learn unfortunately that 99.9 % of your clients don't have a clue about what they are asking you to do but as they are the clients, you just have to either explain diplomaticaly why something won't work, but in most cases, you'll just have to accept what they are asking, otherwise you just loose an assignement, and the money going with it, and it becomes very difficult to eat when we don't earn money.

     

    The other path is the pure art market. But good luck with that one ...

     

    You know, I'm sure that everybody here who ever took an assignement had bad experiences at the start, and we all got some of our work "stolen", used by other who took credits or whatever. And it is a very painfull experience. But then as I wrote in my previous post, it's all about trying to find out some balance, and sometimes accepting a situation where we feel cheated, but where we will learn so much more in comparison to what we loose.

     

    Perhaps unfortunately, but yes, what you experienced is not only a normal practice, but it could have been much worst. The problem is that the worlkd of photography is so busy, and the competition so strong that only the toughest go through it. In order to become though, we unfortunately need to be slapped a lot.

     

    The main problem perhaps is that "normal practice" doesn't mean fair. And fait leads to justice. This is only why everybody was trying to see if a legal matter would be able to solve the problem this is just common sense when we get wronged. We were all trying to find out what would be all the options, and that is all there is to see : we all were able to read you never had any intention to start a legal action.

     

    As for friend sand work : I really wouldn;t make that a rule : The only point on which every one here agreed is to try to get as much understanding before getting any work. That applies with friends as well as with total strangers. And when everything is really clear from the start, it is really always more pleasant and rewaring to work with friends

    I feel cheated.

    in Business of Photography

    Posted

    "Maybe you should go on some more shoots with her"

     

    Unfortunately that may be a bit late. Let's hope not.

    Probably the best lesson to be learned here ( And this shot was all about learning and getting experience isn't it ? ) is certainly about humility : You won't achieve anything if you don't control your ego while you are learning and keeping your cool and take control of any situation however bad this situation is, if you ever want to gain some professional respectablity.

     

    If I remember well, didn't you post a couple of days before that wedding in order to get advice and especially support because you were feeling a bit stressed about the assignment ? You stated yourself you had no experience, and that this was your very first professional opportunity. If you try to get a bit of distance with the whole event, you should as many stated before, realise that you got quite a good salary as a second shooter, especially one with no epxerience at all, that you got no responsability deeling with the clients material etc. And your firend probably was doing you a favour by offering this amount. You can probably understand she was not too pleased when you started to tell her you felt cheated.

     

    You should know that you can find in some professional studio, photographers who will work as runner, sometimes for years in order to learn the buisness, the technical aspects, the way to deal with clients etc , without even getting a salary : It is a mid or long term investissment, as they will learn so much that when they are ready, they'll start on their own from already near the top.

     

    Of course a writen legal agreement is always what you should look for. But sometimes, if you see an opportunity to learn something, just go for it, having in mind you'll be there to learn, and that anything else you'll get from it will be extra : If you don't expect anything you can't have a bad surprise.

     

    As for the rights, well, there is an ambiguity, but consider if it really is worth trying to sue your friend and not be able to learn anything from her, and probably closing some doors for you ( this is a smaller world than you think, and suing in this situation would certainly close you many doors of other photographers )

     

    I work a lot for the movie industry, and I have spent years doing extremely creative work, which a lot of people have seen on screen then on television : I don't own any rights at all from my creative work : It's all copyrighted by the studios, can't show anything online or printed and when I want to showcase this work I need an approval from the studio, and some studios will sometime ask me to bye images, I contributed to create. ( Showreals to be seen inside the industry is the only possibility to show that work ( but also with lots of restriction )) but we are thousands of people working this way, and that's just part of it. When you want to do your own photos, do it by yourslef, when your not working for someone else ( To finish on the personl level, that's the main reason why I signed in here )

     

    I really hope you'll learn the right things from this experience, and that this situation will help you be more carefull in the future, and I hope ( like, I'm sure many of the posters here do as well ), to see some of your photos very soon

     

    Cheers ( As they say around here )

    Selling photo's of famous people

    in Business of Photography

    Posted

    I'd like to share a few views on that, based on personal experience. I happen to have a few friends who are musician, and am often invited to go see some gigs. As my littel camera is always me me, I've learned a few things about shooting during a concert, and shooting famous people, probably more on the ethical side than the legal one.

     

    You probably noticed, if you go to a concert, that photographers not only need the accreditation, but are more and more often allowed to work during the first two or three songs of a concert only then have to swtich off the camera ( if not to just leave the place ). And you probably noticed too that you are search for cameras when you enter a concert hall.

     

    First thing here : If you were searched for camera or phone at the entrance ( But looking at the camera phone on your photo, security was probably not very good, if there was one at all ) and were able to smuggle it in, I would definitely not try to sell a photo taken in these conditions.

     

    Second thing : For all these artists, their image is extremely important and a lot is done just on that image in order to insure and protect it, and of course the bigger the artist, the more protected it is, and the more they will be able to invest in order to track down images which are out of their control.

     

    That being said : During a concert, even if you were allowed to hide a camera and take some shoots, you can be sure that a profesionnal photographer would have done a photo during the first couple of songs, and even if that is done before the artist really is at her/his peak in term of entertainment, those photo will almost surely be much better than yours, and will be the ones picked up by magazines. Even during private performances, you will surely have at least a professional photographer around.

     

    The other problem also is if you know the artists, or the people working with or for her/him : When they realise you are offering photos out of their control on the net ( even for free ), and especially if that photo doesn't please the artist, you can be sure that next time, either they won't invite you or at least will make sure you don't have any camera hidden somewhere. Don't close this opportunity : You better speak with the artist's entourage, show the photos, and the worst that can happen is that you'll keep photos which will be of a great memory of a nice concert and will be proud to show to your family and friends. The best is when the artist loves the photo and ask you if they can use it for their promotion : When that happen not only will you be paid for that, but you''ll be called for the next gig.

     

    For my part I have tons of photos of artists taken during gigs and backstage, but they are all more like the kind of family shots, that are then shown around, and are actually interesting for the artists because they really are very relaxed ( sometimes too relaxed probably ... ). But now not ,only am I happy to be able to keep my camera and shoot whenever and whatever I want, but they even are expecting me to shoot. You'll never see any of those here, or anywhere else, but like every creative form : there always is a "target" for our work, and one of the first thing to learn is about defining this target.

     

    Another thing is that a famous artist is always more interesting in the mind of the photographer, but it is important to always remember that a photo won't be good only because it is of a famous persons : It is difficult to get this concept today, with so many bad tele-lens shot of people published all the time, but it is even the opposite actually : because when we know about an artist's work, we have in our mind, a pretty defined personality of this artist in our mind, and a good photographer should not only get a very good photo technically and in term of composition, but she/he also need to be able to convey this personality of this artist.

     

    Just take the time to look around on PN ( and start by checking the people posting before me on this thread ) to see what serious concert photography is all about. There are lots of amazing photos taken during performances.

     

    If you like to take cocnert photos, try to find small bands, before they are too famous, so that you can shoot as much as you like : All band will be more than happy to offer you the possibility of taking photos and of the possibility of asking you to use some of these photos. This will help you to learn how to shoot a performance, but then, if you have good tastes in your choices, these band can become very famous, and there is never such interesting photos as the "early" ones from a band.

     

     

    Image Pro Thread anywhere ?

    in PhotoNet Site Help

    Posted

    Thank a lot Mike. I'll go there.

     

    Gordon, I waited a bit too, then thought it could have been enough of a beta to have a go. The site still requires quite some work. But then I beleive the admministrators will also need all the feedback they can have in order to improve the site. I just hope it will come out fine.

    Image Pro Thread anywhere ?

    in PhotoNet Site Help

    Posted

    Not sure where to post anything related to ImagePro.

     

    But i think whoever is working on this website would and certainly should be happy to receive any feedback.

     

    The email received after registration deosn;t mention any email for feedabck neither is pointing to nay specific

    forum.

     

    I know it always takes a lot of time to get a website running, and yesterday evening because ( menaing I was

    tired ), my reaction was that the whole site is an absolute joke.

     

    This morning, beeing a bit more relaxed, let's say I would suggest that ImagePRO should be refered to as an

    Alpha version, not a Beta

     

    I really hope all will be sorted out sooon. The idea seems a nice one.

     

    laurent

    The "Myth" of Ansel Adams

    in Casual Photo Conversations

    Posted

    David, I used the words " In the Mind ..." I never said or thought those pseudo copies were any succesfull compared to the originals. Not beeing a huge fan either, only because I look at different things than he used to, I'm learning a lot from his work, and am always impressed when I happen to see one of his prints.

    Can someone tell me about the Saatchi Gallery in UK?

    in Casual Photo Conversations

    Posted

    Actually the Saatchi Gallery was created by Charles Saatchi one of the two brothers who founded the Advertising agency, because, as he has been colecting art for years, he wanted to present his collection.

    He is most famous for having discovered the "Young British Artists" ( Damien Hirst and Tracey Emin are the most famous of the group ), and the gallery became one of the most influent and powerfull in the world of contemporary art.

     

    Now about the website : Mr Saatchi beeing as much a marketing man than an art fanatic, he decided to open a website more or less connected wih the gallery where artists can present their work. Thing is yes, the name is the one of the gallery, but as anybody can register and upload whatever work they want, it seems more a site where poeple will upload some work, with the idea that beeing on a website called Saatchi Gallery will give more chance for them to be appreciated.

     

    And as far as I know the "online artists" exhibitions are always completely separated from the "noraml" Saatchi exhibitions.

    Sontag's error

    in The History & Philosophy of Photography

    Posted

    Simon,

    Are you doing third degree humour here ?

     

    You could not have gotten a worst example : Whatever she may have said, probably by pure provocation, Sophie Calle is not only one of the most clever artists around, but she is one the strongest coneptual artists. She knows exactly what she is doing, has a very deep knowledge about philosophy and art history as well as theory.

     

    All her work is fisrt, pure intellectualisation. But where she is interesting, is that she can build on these concepts, and actually create some interesting creative work which can trigger many different feelings to people looking at her work, and therefore all the theoratical part fo the work is not really apparent at first view.

    Picture Quality of HD Camcorders w/Digital Cameras

    in Casual Photo Conversations

    Posted

    When shooting still images at high res, yes the quality is very close to a powershot actually.

     

    But the probalem is that usually a camcorder is a bit more difficult to handle than a pocket camera, as well as beeing bigger, taking more space ...

     

    I've had a a good camecorders for a long time, and tried to take a few stills now and then. The quality is good, but for me at least, it felt a bit too strange, and could't help everytime to switch to video, and then bought a pocket camera which I'm now using intensively.

    WOOT! New user icons!

    in Casual Photo Conversations

    Posted

    Mary, you have a pooint here.

     

    I was just trying to understand why the confusion about this particular icon, which personaly doesn;t bother me at all.

     

    And now reading my post, I forgot to mention that I also think the whole icons are looking great, and it is a great idea.

     

    It is actually very plesant to disvcover a lot of new improvements every time we log in !

    Just discovering the new PN emailing policy

    in PhotoNet Site Help

    Posted

    Trying to send an email to a member, I just dicovered that now an email address

    is not sent automatically to any memebr who will ask for it, but rather send a

    email.

     

    And checking by sending an email to myself ( yes I know , but sometimes I like

    to tell myself stories I haven't heard yet ) the recipient can decide to answer

    or not.

     

    This is one of the very best and important improvement of the many PN has done

    these last few weeks IMO.

     

    Great job !

     

    laurent

×
×
  • Create New...