robert_kennedy

Gabriel - Is that the moment she became "former"? :)

One word -

 

Collectors.

 

Let us face facts, if Leica wants to make some quick cash, they can either try something like this (how many collectors paid top dollar for these things? Probably enough I am guessing), or "accidentally" screw up the serial numbers or the DOF guide or SOMETHING minor and get the collectors buying the "50 screw up ones" for a fortune.

 

The latter of course being a bit iffy if Leica starts selling "screw ups" to the distro guys for big $$$.

 

For you go with the former.

First off, I want to thank everyone who contributed. It was all very helpful.

 

I decided to get the 50mm Nocton. Mostly because I KNOW that focal length and I do tend to focus on the essentials of an image rather than the "big picture". I guess my love of Siskand shows there. :)

 

I will though be getting a 35mm later on. Probably a used one. I will have time to really sort of "shop" around the LSM and M mount world and see what is out there. Prior to this I only dealt with the company that made the camera system. There may have been someone like Tamron making a few lenses for the system, but price-wise and quality-wise it was best to go with the brand name lens.

 

But now....the choices are just mind boggling! I mean the "Leica World" offers a LOT of choices. There are old lenses, new lenses, third party lenses, capitalist lenses, communist lenses, good lenses, and bad lenses. Which is one of the things I wanted to have.

 

After researching I think I will end up with a 35/50/90 system. This would give me versatility, and, most important, a VERY compact travel kit. A small camera bag could fulfill all my needs and then some.

 

When the camera is delivered I'll post some pics.

 

Thanks again.

Rob F - I used a 50/1.4 on that shot. Of course! It is my fastest lens by far.

 

As to using a cheap RF, I have done that in the past, But I am trying to simplify here. I want good optics, compactness, and unltimate versatility. And the Bessa R2 fits that very well. Plus I want the option to upgrade later, but keep my good lenses. This will be my only real travel camera. So it needs a certain amount of complexity. By, as was suggested, later getting a 75 or 90 I can have a good setup for street AND on-the-go portrait. I do a lot of traveling to see family in the UK so I can see using (and have used) everything from a 50 to a 90 depending on the situation. Even a 35 if I end up going that way at some point. Then I will also have my Bronica outfit for studio/travel work (depending on how much I want to carry) and my LF for the same.

So it looks like I am getting a Bessa R2. This is my first foray

into "Leica Land". And that is the reason I am getting it. It

will, later on, give me the ability to access some super lenses.

Plus, I really needed a replacement for my Nikkormat FT2 with 50/1.4

SLR. Great worker, but I wanted something smaller, lighter and more

discrete for "street work."

 

Now, here is quandry.

 

I love shooting in natural light, and often shoot 3200 or even 6400

speed film (more often 3200 for obvious reasons). I am attaching an

image that shows an example of my work in this venue. It was taken

with the above state FT and 50/1.4. Again, I used that lens

because it is fast and good for that type of work. Plus the 50mm

is "standard" for an SLR.

 

But my new camera is not an SLR. It is a different beast. For

example the need for a fast lens is somewhat minimized by the fact

that I don't need to look THROUGH the lens anymore. No more getting

popped by a slow lens in marginal conditions because 4.7 or whatever

my zoom is on is "too dark." You know the deal.

 

So I am seriously thinking maybe I should break out a bit here.

 

So here are my options. Yes, they are all Voigtlander lenses. This

is a cost issue. And yes, I know there are Leica bargains out

there, but until I really know the Leica world, I am avoiding used

lenses for a while. If you think I should get a Leica lens, then

feel free to send me a check. :)

 

Lenses -

 

35/2.5 Color Skopar "P" Pancake Type II

- Nice because I don't have to buy a converter, not as nice for the

same reason. It is also compact and fast.

 

35/2.5 Color Skopar "C"

- Bigger, but not by much, and it does have a good price point and

that nice focusing lever.

 

35/1.7 Aspherical Ultron

- At the far end of my price limit. Maybe even over it, but it is

fast. Is the extra speed worth it? I dunno. You tell me. Big lens

though.

 

50/2.5 Color Skopar

- Good price here and I get a lens close to what I am used to.

But is 50mm too much?

 

50/1.5 Aspherical Nokton

- Sort of the Cosina version of a Noctilux I guess. Very fast,

and pretty much what I have shot before. Good? Bad? I dunno.

 

So what do y'all advise? I figure I can learn on any lens, and

worse comes to worst, I can always switch later when I get the cash.

 

I ma intriqued by the Nokton, but that is because I shoot lowlight a

lot. And my gut says "Fast good!"

 

Anyway let me know guys. Attached is a sampling of what I will be

doing.<div></div>

Takkinda - True, Dr. Che was an Argentine, but his famous image and most of his work came out of his time in Cuba. It was a Cuban who shot the famous "Che" image.

On that note - IIRC the Cuban Revolution really brought the 35mm into prominence as a journalistic tool. These guys were living in the bush and a large camera would NOT do. They made do with 35mm RFs, cheap mimeographs and printing presses, short wave transmitters, etc. to get the message out.

Well, I wouldn't get a Leica NEAR the place.

 

Too expensive.

 

ANY political convention or event in a politically polarized climate is sunject to the possibility of violence.

 

And the new practice, almost entirely run by local PDs BTW, of cramming a few thousand people into "protest zones" lights the match on the powder keg.

 

The SECOND you get a lot of hopped-up people in a small space, you WILL RUN THE RISK OF VIOLENCE.

 

In my city, this happens if we get to the NCAA playoffs.

 

Too many people on one street with too many bars.

 

No Leica should be near such a place.

 

Honestly, the oldest, cheapest, strongest camera you have with a long prime or good zoom (but not too pricey), is what you take to these things. A Nikon FT2 with say a 135 prime is my choice, with a 50mm in the bag just in case.

 

In that kind of situation, you are not Robert Frank calmly touring the U.S. taking social landscape shots.

 

You are a potential target for everyone and anyone there (and by that I mean the cops AND the protesters....the anarchists that show up tend to get really twitchy about cameras....)

You all make good points.

 

The only "auto" anything I use is aperture priority. That is just when I am being lazy. Never use any other automated system. I shoot based on aperture first, then shutter speed 99% of the time.

 

And I doubt the R2 will drop. They stopped making them in July. Even with the "big intro" in a few weeks, how long until there is an effective roll out? Six months? By then the R2s will mostly be gone. And for the price break on a used body, I doubt I can do much better. Rather have the warranty etc.

 

Besides, with the R2s and R2c, parts for that body will be around a while.

 

Also, any word on the body itself? Will it be an R2 body with "new stuff" or a new one?

I am seriously thinking of making the jump to a Leica compatible RF

system. For budgetary reasons, and because I like the old CLE, I am

thinking about a Bessa R2 body. It can then get pretty much all the

lenses I could want (I don't use many wide lenses, so the depth

thing isn't much of an issue), and have a nice, small, RF camera

with some amazing optics available.

 

BUT.......

 

I could get an R2 now, or wait 6 months for the replacement.

 

Now, I can't think of what I would NEED on the "R3" that the R2

doesn't have. And prices will NOT be dropping on the R2 bodies.

Cosina is very cleverly floating the new body out after they get rid

of most of the R2s.

 

BUT......

 

Maybe I am wrong on this.

 

So does anyone have a suggestion here? Buy or wait? The R2 seems

like a great body since I can drop my cash on the lenses and has

some great reviews. Then again maybe the new body is so much better

I will want to kill myself for buying the R2?

 

TIA

I second that. Things may get VERY nasty there. You will NOT be able to get into the convention.

 

Let me put it this way, in New Mexico, they made anyone who wasn't a known supporter sign a "loyalty oath" to get INTO the Bush rally.

 

And no, I am NOT joking.

 

http://www.abqjournal.com/elex/204620elex07-30-04.htm

 

So your only chance at ANY shots will be with the protesters in the "protester ghetto".

 

And the chances of that going FUBAR is REALLY REALLY REALLY HIGH.

 

So....

 

Take the crappy cameras with the zooms. Take SEVERAL extra UV filters. Cheap ones to protect the lens (you may go through a couple). A wrench to pry off destroyed filters, a LOT of water, and if possible, a small gas mask.

 

Oh, and well padded clothing. Maybe even a flak jacket.

 

And I am NOT kidding here.

 

Those rubber bullets HURT.

I know about the Retro plates. Only problem is the cost (125.00BPS or over $200.00 US for only 25 plates), and I want to self-coat so I get the uber-slow emulsion and that soft look you got from 1 second exposures.

 

The problem is, the people who ARE working in glass plates seem to be closed mouth about supply.

I have been trying desperately to get into dry-plate work. I have

the holders, I have the emulsion, but I have been told, after much

searching, that there is "non source out there for 2mm glass

plates. All glass is at least 2.5mm now."

 

Well, 2.5mm glass doesn't work. I need to 2mm. That is the

standard.

 

Does anyone have a source for plate glass in 2mm thickness?

One conern I have is that the SE1 emulsion is now a variable contrast emulsion only. The bottle touts a "new formula". How does this bode for people wanting to make plates?

I have an old FT and an FT2 that I still shoot with regularly. Built like tanks.

You DEFINATELY have to shoot a bunch in Bisbee. Very funky town. It sort of grows out of the hills. Hard to describe. The architecture is great there.

 

Tombstone is overly touristy. Good for street shooting, but tiring at times.

 

Saguaro is great for landscapes and VERY good for birds (especially the east side).

 

Since you will be hitting the Painted Desert, I suggest you take a polarizer and if possible an enhancing filter. Both are great for that area.

 

You can leave the camera home though at Meteor Crater. It is surprisingly boring. Geologically it is GREAT. But visually it is....well....a very large hole. Great from the air, not so great in it.

FM2!!! You seen how well they are constructed? A kid could hurt themselves with one of those! :)

 

I THINK that someone out there makes some toy (as in bright colors and heavy duty plastic) cameras that take actual pictures. Digital and film IIRC. Check those out. Built for abuse and they bounce when you throw them at your sibling's head....

I thought the cobra flashes were shoe mounted.

Better yet - Find a good wordworking supply shop in your area and talk to them. They can help with the screw issue and any other issues that may come up. Woodworking can be a real art at times.

Jeff - NO YOU CAN'T!!! Now destroy those negatives and go to your room!

Make sure you are FAR from any lights if you do color. I've done color in locations that were pretty dark, but not far enough away from the city lights, and you get a nasty greenish glow in some pictures. Especially if part of the FOV is "towards" the lights of the city. Your eyes will lie to you given half a chance. I figured if I could see a zillion stars it was "dark enough". Opps!

You WILL get star trails. PERIOD. Unless you use a special motor driven rig which will rotate the camera in time with rotation of the earth, star trails are unavoidable. I suggest you get a good book on amateur astronomy and familarize yourself with the basic principles of telescope alignment and motor drives.

Ellis and Bailey make great points -

 

1) MF is about more than just shooting "portraits". You can shoot a great portrait with just about anything. Seriously consider why you are making the move before doing it.

 

2) Format-wise you need to pick something YOU are comfortable with! I can't stress this enough! I have both 6x6 and 6x4.5 cameras. PERSONALLY I prefer my Bronica ETRsi at 6x4.5 over my Mamiya C3. Mostly because I go for 4x5 or 8x10 or whatever enlargements and I just find it easier to use the ETRsi with it's rectangular format than the square format of the Mamiya. But that is me. My shortcoming is that I find it harder to crop in my mind's eye with the 6x6 format than with the 6x4.5 format. Other people find the 6x6 gives them a lot more flexibility. Play with some cameras and see what you like the best. Maybe you will find that 6x7 is what you like. Only one way to find out.

 

3) My $0.02. When getting into MF for the first time, buy used. Unless you have thousands and thousands of dollars to just throw around, there is no point in buying your first MF camera new. Especially if you have any doubts about the format. A used Bronica, Mamiya, or Pentax can be had for much less than a new one. And if you decided to get out of MF, you will take much less of a hit selling them than if you had bought new.

A monkey can just as easily get into a closed bag! Those little guys are major kleptomaniacs!

 

Seriously watch yourself around any monkey troop! When I was in Malaysia at the Batu Caves outside Kuala Lumpur, I had a macaque actually dash up my front, and grab a pack of peanuts out of my shirt pocket and run off!

 

And I swear I saw one down the street at a pawn shop selling an M6......

Depends on if it snows and where ya go.

 

The chances of snow will be pretty small (I mean it IS the desert....), but still getting stuck really sucks. And many areas are accesible only with 4WD and high clearance (although you may just decide to skip those areas). So going in a Jeep or something similar is always recommended.

 

Oh, and it will be COLD. Not "cold", but COLD. Seriously COLD. Dress very warmly and be prepared for big changes in temp. I was once up in Flagstaff in mid-October and it was 65-70 in sun during the day, but below freezing at night. We would wake up to iciles hanging from the hotel roof. Be prepared to layer....