joe_buechler

Jim, network administrators at the government, and at many large companies, have banned/blocked photo.net for several years for various reasons. I can't access this forum at lunch time any more either.

I'll be happy when the new home is ready. Until then, I'm kinda out of luck.

Joe

Tony, the biggest bummer for me is that I can no longer access the forum during lunch hour at my place of business, which was typically when I was the most active. Many large company's network administrators ban Photo.net for various reasons. I won't be contributing here very much any more, because I can't.

I've also been a longtime reader and occasional contributor to the LF forum, since I also use a view camera. The site owner and majority of members have been opposed to moving to photo.net since being approached about the subject nearly two years ago.

I like that group of people very much, and I find it distressing that members here are hurling insults at them over an issue that doesn't even affect the Leica group. That's the kind of behavior that I've come to expect from photo.net people, but not from the Leica forum.

I'll follow the LF group wherever they end up, but if they stay on photo.net, I'll have the same problem accessing the forum as I do here.

Based on his work and the discussions I've had with him in the chat room, I've always liked and respected Philip Greenspun. However, I have enough issues with Photo.net that I haven't participated in several years, and had to request my old password which I had forgotten.

It isn't necessarily true that those same issues will come to affect the Leica forum, but it concerns me.

Joe

I can't access the forum during lunch hour any more, since photo.net has been blocked for several years where I work. I don't know how many other folks are affected by this, but it might affect the posting rate.

Joe

Some special production models are trial baloons: the M6J made it

clear that there was a market for high mag viewfinders.

<p>

The S2 was a commemorative of the Contax S, but was a regular

production model.

<p>

Its my belief that Leica has to produce a mechanical rangefinder, to

satisfy that segment of their market, and to mitigate the risk that

the M7 won't sell well. Enthusiastic people on the internet isn't the

same thing as sales.

<p>

I've seen lots of M6 TTL's for sale recently, but not many M6's. An

M6.2 makes sense.

<p>

Joe

When the M7 first came out, my first thought was: now they can stop

producing the M6 TTL, a transitional design, and revert back to the

M6. If it had an M3 finder, fine with me. Time will tell if it will

end up being a limited-production model (or whether it will even

happen at all), but if its a regular production classic M6, I bet

they'll sell a ton of them.

<p>

Joe

<A HREF="http://www.linhof.de/english/kameras/m679/m679cc.html">Linhof

M 679cc</A>

I never understood this complaint either. Loading my M6 is neither

slower nor more difficult than loading my FM2 or S2, in fact I think

it's easier - no slot in the take up spool, no sprocket teeth to

align, no advancing with the camera open.

<p>

As far as that other argument goes, let's try this one: If having the

lens alignment dot on the side of the lens is better than having it on

the back of the lens (where you can't see it), then why don't ALL 35mm

cameras have this? Answer - damned if I know! It IS better!

<p>

Joe

<i>Analog instruments provided they give you a different sound (for

whatever

technical reason) or (and) are more pleasing to use by the musicians

and

are not dependant on a third party liable to disappear to operate are

totally

different things.</i>

<p>They are a close analogy to the steam engines, because manufacture

of

each was (or is)  dependent on off-the-shelf parts which can go

out

of production. In the case of analog synths, the famous CEM chips are

a

good example. This is a much better comparison than your film

argument.

Film is a consumable, used by the end user, not an off-the shelf part

used

in manufacturing.

<p>Digital cameras, by contrast, use what's quickly becoming the

ultimate

worrisome consumable, energy. Perhaps you are aware of events

currently

happening in central Asia? The cost of this consumable, not only in

terms

of money but also in terms of human misery caused by war and

repression,

may be too high. Film may easily become the only acceptable consumable

to use.

<p><i>But to take the part of your comparative which is nearer to the

Leica

M problem, the �sound� of the M is given mainly by the lenses and the

RF

concept, not the body.</i>

<p>I can't agree with a single word of this. The lenses are a

relatively

unimportant part of the Leica "sound", especially if you shoot

hand-held

like most Leica M users do. How is the RF concept different from the

body?

<p>Joe

I've used both on occasion with my M6, but much more often tripod than

flash.

<p>

Joe

My first 35mm camera was my girlfriend's (later my wife, later yet my

ex-wife) Pentax Spotmatic w/50mm standard lens back at college in the

early 70s. Loved that camera, I think it's the reason I got a Leica M6

(and won't get an M7, which is nothing like the Spotmatic).

<p>

After I split up with my wife, I got an ME Super along with the woman

I was seeing at the time. That camera also disappeared when I split up

with her. I decided that Pentax was unlucky for me.

<p>

Joe

I liked the sailboat analogy, but the analogy that's much closer is

musical instruments. One thing that's different between photographers

and musicians, is that you'd never hear a musician castigate another

musician for discussing gear. Musicians love their instruments.

<p>

Especially in electronic music, there's numerous parallels: Japanese

manufacturers have switched to digital instruments and would never

consider putting analog back into production; Professional and serious

amateur users have to buy instruments that are designed for the mass

market hobbyists; and venerable names like Moog continue to make, and

command a premium price for, "obsolete" analog instruments. Moog would

die if they switched to digital, and the world would suffer a sad

loss.

<p>

Along different lines, if I attend an event with my rather large

extended family, probably 80% of those folks are taking family

snapshots. Not a scientific cross section, but to me they represent

the mass market for photography, which will ultimately decide if film

will disappear. Exactly one of those folks as got a digital camera,

and recently supplemented it with a 35mm P&S after the novelty wore

off and the battery demands became too onerous.

<p>

Again, this isn't a scientific survey, but these are typical mass

market people for whom the difference in image quality between digital

and film isn't even an issue. I'm convinced that film will continue to

be the primary medium for quite a long time.

<p>

Joe

Every time I use the little spring-loaded button on the 50mm f3.5

Elmar's focusing lever, it reminds me of ... err ... something else ;)

<p>

The same kind of effect happens when you draw the edge of your finger

along the film advance knob.

<p>

Using a Leica screw mount camera is definitely a sensual experience.

<p>

Joe

If you can't find a way to use a view camera (highly recommended,

and use slide film), another alternative is to use a wide enough lens

to include the top of the buiding when the camera is vertical and

level, then crop off the unused portion at the bottom. Converging

verticals fixed, at the expense of enlargement ratio.

<p>

Joe

The only thing that can be said for sure, is that Barnack would be

very unhappy at people trying to add credence to their own opinions by

using his name.

I use both 50 f3.5 coated Elmar and 50 f2 Summitar on my M6 and IIIf.

The Elmar is incredibly small, collapsed the camera fits easily in a

pocket. It has a 30's look, whereas the collapsible Summitar has a

50's look. (The lenses, not the photos, hehe).

<p>

Joe

I've posted photos here from occasionally, but I've never asked for a

critique either. I don't feel that I have the right to impose on the

group that way.

<p>

Technical questions are a different matter. If someone has the answer,

it's simple to post a response. Photo critique is a different matter,

it can require a significant amount of thought and effort to critique

a photo properly. To make things worse, people come here and DEMAND

that their photos receive a critique that is helpful and constructive.

What's this based on? Scanning and posting a photo doesn't entitle you

to anything.

<p>

This is a photography forum, so if folks want to post photographs,

that's fine with me. But I find it extremely presumptuous when people

feel that they have the right to tell the forum what they must or must

not do in response to their photos. If you want those kind of

expectations, use one of the photo critique forums which have a quid

pro quo in place.

<i>We all know what the perfect rangefinder would be</i>

<p>Yes we all do, but none of us agree on it.

<p>I certainly know what a perfect rangefinder would be, but it would

look

nothing like you describe.

<p>Joe

I used to, but now I have to run a gauntlet of security x-ray and

metal detectors several times a day, so I gave it up. Jeez, I hate

D.C.

The IIIf RDST with the current 50mm Summicron mounted is pure joy, I

use this combination more and more.

The M bodies are known for having the best viewfinder in 35mm

photography. The brightness of the viewfinder, lack of mirror slap,

and lenses that perform well at wide apertures make the M system

reknown for hand-held low light photography. The quietness of the

shutter makes the M cameras about the best available choice for

unobtrusive photography.

<p>

Being able to use M lenses is a factor, but not really so important

really, especially if you shoot hand-held like most Leica M

photographers.

<p>

As far as being "primitive", have someone show you or describe the

viewfinder/rangefinder assembly sometime, it's one of the most complex

mechanical achievements ever.

<p>

Joe

Film is default, so unless digital has a clear advantage for a

particular application, film wins.

<p>

This isn't news photography, it's a high-quality coffee table

magazine, shot in remote locations, frequently in harsh climates, and

the photographs need to be available to be republished again 50-100

years from now. Its a no-brainer.

AE fans insist that battery-dependence is not an issue, there's no

hassle with carrying spare batteries.

<p>

Sorry, Mani, I love ya man, but I couldn't resist taking a poke.

<p>

Joe

The M6 has no way of knowing whether you're using a flash or not. 1/50

works just the same as any other shutter speed.

<p>

Jie