laurent_jaussi

Ester I am glad you launched this interesting discussion with quite profound reflexions

from several people about originality, emotions and so on. PN is full of wonderfull photos

that well deserve their top aesthetic rating...but a lot of them convey little if no emotions.

Looking dowards on the TRP you litterally find little treasures photo that are aestically less

perfect (what is aesthetics by the way) but convey a lot of feeling and emotions...I couldn't

agree more on your statement and encourage people to look further down because some

little teasures are hiding in PN and it's part of the experience to find and enjoy them...

I am not sure it will help you but you may try this alternatively and related links:

http://photographytips.com/page.cfm/368

with the level you have (it's not a flattery but a sincere comment) I think it is unrealistic to

think you can learn deeper by posting a single image and get comment unless you find a

high-level pro that takes you under his wing...but do these peolple have time to play this

role in PN...I don't think so...so learning by example is the way to go and few comment

here and there by pro will also help from time to time, don't you think ?...but you knew

that already, because you participate in PN since a lot of time...

you are doing wonderful photography in general (not only portrait)...PN changes everyday

and diversity is what I like...you want to see more portrait, vote for portrait or use the

search category features...I agree mosty with what you said but you can't change people ,

peolple vote freely for what they like....and personaly I think it's great to have a wonderful

portrait followed by a butterfly, followed by a lanscape, then a nude, then a humour, an

abstract, a flower, a nude a nude, a nude, a nude , a nude, a kid, a nude, a nude, a nude, a

landscape...and so on...sorry I could'nt resist some humour.....

waoaawww...you all have put so much energy in this debate...if only people would put this

energy bringing helpful comments on individual photos, it could serve constructively

several ten's of people...sorry for this short interruption.

Carl Root says it all...an image work or not...interesting is to know why and what was done

to get it...if manipulated why not...I think Paul Godard was not dishonest and gave the key

very softly and cleverly in is initial stament (a sort of teasing) about secret location letting

people think about it...the question if he was right/wrong or good/bad to manipulate is

not interesting to me....as an amateur I don't need a superior hierarchy to tell me if a

photo is manipulated or if it's right or wrong to do it...manipulated graphics and photos

are everywhere now...I need experienced people to tell me what worked, what didn't and

why, and explanation how it was created...to me the only points of interest in the PoW

discussions.

Lisa...I understand your frustration, but as other have said rates are part of the system and

a very small part...of course you could have received more feedback (positive and

negative) but as Yann said then you have to give more on your own....on the other hand

look at the number of people that have seen your photos...some have several thousands

hits....can you imagine having this audiance without this site...look at portofolios, some

very good profesionnal photographer have lower average rating than amateurs just

because their work do not match average taste or the category most people

like...sometimes just because they share so many different good photos that some don't

like instead of presenting consensual work for rates...if you are passionate about photo I

think the only interesting way is to shoot, shoot again, participate and bring better

photos...and discuss about them...

As a recent member (and average amateur photographer) I 've been following discussions

on ratings/critics that have appeared from time to time in here...I have to say that I can

understand the points raised by Mario in his thread but I mostly agree with Jim's

arguments in that critiques (in any field) don't need to be perfomed by people actually

involved in playing...

...in fact quite the opposite...profesionnal critics in cooking , art, sports, stock analysis,

etc...should be totally independant of the players involved...OK here the situation is much

smoother (no money involved, just peolple that might feel uncomfortable with the rating

and critiques...and number of approval/visit they receive)... I see this site as an exchange

of experience and skills between photographer of any kind (pro, amateur, beginners,

etc...)...not more, not less...

...like they are good and bad photo in here, there are good and bad critiques...a good

critique should only depend on the photo being considered and be understood on its sole

merit...I have seen people reacting to critics by looking at the photo of the critiquer...this

means that either the point of critique is not understood and/or the photographer is

looking to consider and downplay the critique based on the level of the critiquer...this is

not a good reply, he should rather question the critique by explaning his photo...not more

not less...

As for deleting photo, I think people putting photo in here have every rights to do what

they want with their photos (deleting them as they want)...but if one does that too often he

will discourage contructive critiquers...the same if you have bad reaction to critics and

ratings...you discourage the constructive peolple and encourage the bad ones...

the only reaction to out of context critiques or political rating is to ignore them and

concentrate on the ones that are justified by the own merit or non-merit of the photo...

It takes time to write a few lines on a photo...so good critiques should be respected as well

as photos and photographer...

I feel sorry for peolple like Jim that do not want to critique anymore, because looking at

some of his critiques, I think that he gave some very good advice (seeming maybe a bit

agressive from time to time)...but being shaked sometimes can be good...wether by

critiques or by rating...you progress in reaction...not by hearing you are a master all the

time...

now if someone likes a photo and have no time to really do critique...a few word of

encouragment cannot be bad as well..after all everybody needs both to be sharked and

encouraged from time to time.....

Touring your portofolio I found this interesting discussion about equipment and being

taken seriously...I thing that every now and then when you try to achieve something

creative and present it to others you may end up with disapointments but also with

enthousiam and everything in between...I have also seen some part of snobism in

photography sites...but not so in PN so far (but I'm rather new) and that's what I like

here..most people speak about the photos...I've seen sites where peolple spend their time

speaking about the merit of one equipment vs another all the time which is rather

boring...photography is about compo, light and right moment to capture...nothing

else...I've seen wonderful photo with a pocket and very bad ones with profesionnal tool

(1D's, D200, etc...) and the reverse...I think you're doing very good job with what you have

and that is what's important...someday you might motivate yourself to add a better

equipment but it will not be easier to take good pictures...those tools allow for better

controls but are of little help in what's important: compo, light and right moment....so

continue what you are doing because it's interesting....