john_castronovo

<p>Dwayne's in Kansas <em><strong>IS</strong> </em>the Fuji lab and has been for years. Fuji shut their own lab years ago and Dwayne's got the contract. I was one of the bidders who lost to Dwayne's.</p>

<p>I heard that last year, sales of vinyl records were way above CDs, and Tom Petty's last album was only available on vinyl, no digital whatsoever. Apparently there's more to the equation than signal to noise ratio and convenience.</p>

<p>Yes, who said film was supposed to be color accurate in the first place? Film is chosen for it's unique and beautiful way of interpreting reality and we often do all kinds of things to exaggerate those qualities. If you want clinical accuracy, then shoot digital in a totally color managed work flow, but that's not why we use film in the first place. Many cinematographers prefer the look of film simply because it shows a view that's NOT real. They're telling a story on film and they want it to look more dreamlike than television.</p>

<p>I am a professional who specializes in reproducing original works of art. Needless to say, color accuracy needs to be spot on in this endeavor. I used to shoot 8x10 film and I had my own custom lab and drum scanning equipment. My lab was also a pioneer in color management, so the accuracy of our work was second to none. As good as we were, however, once I converted to using a Betterlight scan back I never looked back. The same story has been told by everyone else in my field as well. The direct scans are more accurate with less post processing and just as sharp if not sharper than anything I could do with film. Of course, this scanning back is the accepted gold standard in this kind of work, but it's safe to say that digital capture can be more accurate than film, if it's done right.</p>

<p>I remember a case that went to trial in New York City years ago where a lab claimed ownership of property and copyright because the customer never paid the lab and left the work unclaimed for over a year. The lab eventually took the customer to court to recover payment for the amount of the bill, but the customer counter sued for recovery of his property at the same time. The judge denied that the lab ever had ownership of anything and this was simply a collection case. In other words, if the only value the court places on the matter is the unpaid balance of the lab bill, then the lab never had rights beyond that invoice. I think the judge wanted a simple way out, but that one stood as a test case. After reading that one, I changed my lab agreement to read that the lab was not responsible for unclaimed property after 60 days and I began taking payments before work was begun.</p>

<p>You certainly don't have to assume responsibility or bear liability for your customer's property at this point since most bailment agreements are assumed to expire in thirty to ninety days, and that would be true if they paid for your work or not, but that doesn't give you ownership rights or the right to reproduce any images on the roll. There may even be privacy rights involved if there are photos of recognizable people. Of course, no one but you knows what's on the film. Incidentally, images created prior to 1923 are all free of copyright, the so-called Mickey Mouse rule since Disney managed to work that date into the law because that's when Disney was founded.</p>

<p>Enlargers that big used to be commonplace and required in custom labs. We had five of them and the best was a computerized Durst horizontal 10 x 10 complete with pin-registered anti-newton ring glass negative carriers, a 2,000 watt halogen light source, custom lenses and a 15 foot vacuum wall with a vertical paper dispenser. Except for a few parts I could sell, everything was thrown to the metal scrap heap in January. Such is life in the digital world.<br>

You asked about drum scanning, and it remains the gold standard for many reasons. The film is fluid mounted to the drum so it's clean and perfectly flat, therefore sharp and clear corner to corner. Each point is directly sampled in exactly the same way without having to go through a lens or complicated light path so flare is minimal. Since the film is sampled spot for spot by PMT rather than a CCD technology, the results are generally smoother with higher dynamic range.<br>

People think of using a drum scanner when they need large scans, but even small scans are better. It's the not the number of pixels but the quality of the pixels that makes it better. Of course, any scanner is only as good as the operator and his skill in post processing is just as important as the technology.</p>

<p>Thanks Larry. From the sound of it I wasn't sure if you knew that only Dwaynes honors Fuji mailers. Fuji pays them next to nothing for it too. About $2.50 per roll gross as I recall. I know because I bid on that business when Fuji closed their lab. Dwaynes makes a few pennies per roll after the cost of mounts and boxes not to mention the handling. Order tracking is a very large part of the cost. It doesn't pay for less than a few hundred rolls a day, so if volume drops much, they'll have to drop the service because they can't charge more for the mailers which are already sold. I guess we'll see what happens.</p>

<p>Larry Dressler,<br>

Like Kodak, Fuji closed their own labs many years ago and they send all of their film to Dwaynes, so you can cut out the middle man.<br>

For 34 years I owned and maintained large dip and dunk E6 lines. Refrema isn't the only kind. There are also Hostert, Sitte, and other good brands, even some custom made. The secret to low volume maintenance is to make up for it by tweaking the chemistry with the amount of replenisher that would have been used if there had been enough volume and then adding developer starter which simulates the byproducts of actual film had there been any. It's expensive to do and it requires careful monitoring with control strips, densitometry and charting. We finally closed our line when we were only getting the equivalent of about 15 rolls a day because we were replenished for more than twice that and at less than $8 a roll it was costing us money to provide the service. It all depends on the size of the tanks in the machine of course. the bigger the equipment, the more volume you need, but this is no time to be buying new equipment for processing E6.</p>

 

<p>I've got a bunch of Kodak EDupe 35mm x 100' rolls in my freezer if anyone wants to make me a reasonable offer for any of it. I found that it produces a very reasonable dupe of a negative at the same settings that make a good slide dupe.</p>

<p>Fuji doesn't have a lab. they use Dwaynes who put the film in work in Fuji packaging for them. Find your self a decent pro lab and support them. Since I closed my pro lab I've been telling people to go to LTI in New York but there are others. Unfortunately, there are many bad labs with good names and high prices so you need to try them.</p>

<p>Assuming that all 6mp scans are equal is like assuming that all 35mm images are equal. That isn't true even with the same camera and lens on the same roll of film. File size is only one small part of quality in a scan and operator influence has a lot to do with it.</p>

<p>People who think that places like Costco can replace what a custom lab does are grossly misinformed or simply have basic needs. Try getting a unique print size, for example, or offset and uneven borders. Color management isn't as accurate and the fine adjustments to the image requiring good taste and years of imaging experience just aren't possible. They can cover the basics, and they do that well, but it's about the same as getting a meal cooked by a pit stop diner versus a four star restaurant. The ingredients and tools might be the same but it stops there. Unfortunately, too many people are of the mind set that it's all the same and that's why custom labs are gone. Also, most places that called themselves custom labs never had a clue what that meant because they didn't have the demanding customer base that only existed in and around major cities. It's hard to sell a lot of first class seats when people can only afford coach.</p>

<p>When did Millers move to the Northeast US?</p>

<p>We offer a professional drum scanning service, and the only target we use is the HCT target made by Hutchcolor. It's more expensive than any other target on the market, but it's the best and the only one you will ever need. The HCT was designed for the purpose of making icc profiles which was an afterthought with the Q60. Each HCT is individually measured on every patch too so it's super accurate. They're also made in a unique way to maximize the color gamut of the target so that whatever you scan will fall within its range. Unfortunately, you cannot accurately profile a scanner for color negatives. Adjustments will always be advisable once you get scans from color negatives into Photoshop.</p>

<p>Costco and the rest of the lot like them never made optical prints. They began with digital printers and have always done it that way. True optical prints are still made by custom labs that have darkrooms, but even that's becoming rare. We still do them here, but I'm thinking of eliminating the service since no one seems to care how the prints are made anyway. If the cost is justified by the result, customers are happy.</p>

<p>The exception is with fine art black and white printing which remains a specialty and still done best the old fashioned way, a large format negative printed by a master onto double weight fiber based silver paper.</p>

<p>You make a good point Alan. Most custom labs have been driven out of business by shoppers who are conscious of the price, but totally ignorant of value. Without enough volume to maintain quality control it's impossible to run a quality lab on a budget.</p>

<p>As we've seen our volumes decrease, among other things we've had to increase replenishment rates to compensate, but due to the economy we can't increase our prices. We're already at a point where processing is almost done at a loss. There was a time when we offered different black and white film developers, but no one appreciated it enough to pay a penny more here than anywhere else. We still sort and give each film type it's own time, but I don't think anyone really appreciates it enough to pay us more for the effort. With the economy the way it is, I'm convinced that nothing matters more than the cost for all but a diminishing handful of customers. When it gets to the point where I can't maintain my own standards I'll be forced to close the last custom lab in NJ.</p>

<p>SNARKY? lol, well someone has to liven the place up.</p>

<p>Yes Alan. I got food poisoning at a restaurant once and ever since then I've only eaten at McDonald's. Maybe you should find a really good custom lab first, then tell me Walgreens is better.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>John you must know then that control strips can be run through roller processors and that the rep rate can be adjusted for each step in the process as well as being able to control the temperates.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sure, but it seldom happens that way anywhere but in a custom lab. Replenishment rates can be individually adjusted in many machines, but in many cases it requires a service call that just doesn't happen, and remedial actions aren't very possible in 1-hour machines. Otherwise the pre-programmed "intelligence" of the equipment goes nuts. Many 1-hour labs don't even own a densitometer let alone use it. Fortunately, C41 is a forgiving process, unlike E6, but that doesn't mean the results are optimal and consistent. It does come down to the people and the management's willingness to do the right thing.</p>

<p>The obvious solution is to simply use a lab that does its own color management and will honor your embedded profiles. I assume your approach is to save money by using a place that hasn't got a clue, but then you'll never win because their output will never be the same anyway. Of what use is a profile that you make for them if they don't care enough to calibrate and do their part to maintain standards in the first place? The results can never be optimal or repeatable.</p>

<p>We've been making our own profiles for many years, and they're constantly being updated. In the long run it saves money and produces better work that doesn't come back to haunt us, so I don't understand labs that refuse to consider doing it.</p>

<blockquote>

<ul>

<li>[but C-41 developing, unlike printing, is an automated process. Most "Pro Labs" use the same equipment as the the 1-hour labs. As long as the machines are maintained, the chemicals fresh (or properly replenished), and the operators trained, one result is much like another.]</li>

</ul>

</blockquote>

<p>Well that's where you're totally wrong. First of all, most pro labs use dip and dunk machines so it's not the same equipment as the 1-hour labs. A professional lab runs control strips and based on the analysis, they're able to see things happening before they become problems so they can take the appropriate actions. Nearly every parameter of the process is <em>independently </em>adjustable in a pro lab.<br>

Such constant attention doesn't happen at the 1-hour shops. When they finally notice that their machines have a problem, they just dump the chemistry and start over. That's all their kind of operation will allow. Of course, that would be after many orders were compromised or ruined. I've run both kinds of labs and there's simply no comparison.</p>

<p>Frankly, I'm shocked that anyone would have to ask if paying more means anything. YES, it matters. Why don't you ask for a sirloin burger next time you're at McDonalds too and then compare what you get to what a restaurant that has a real chef would make you.<br>

The typical lab in a "cheap-o 1 hour" place is set up so that idiots can run the machine with minimal training. Everything of a custom nature has been locked on purpose so that even a good technician can't do custom work there. It's a one size fits all setup to produce something that the store can sell without too much hassle, but you can't compare it to what happens in a truly custom environment where people are allowed to work their machines using years of experience.<br>

You shouldn't have to wait longer at a custom lab either, but you will pay more. Also, if it's taking 7 days, I doubt that you've found a custom lab but rather a front for a mail order operation.</p>

<p>Fuji does have a new wet processed paper called "Deep Matte". It processes in RA4 chemistry, just like the other Crystal Archive photo papers and the surface has no reflection at all. They also have a new very thin luster paper for albums and a heavy weight paper for larger prints. Nice to see that they're at least trying to keep silver halide alive.</p>

<p>For over 34 years, Tech Photo has processed E6 and C41 of all sizes in hanger machines. We were the very first E6 lab in NJ and I think we're the last still doing it on a custom level in the area outside of NYC.</p>