lonoveracker

Yeah, was a nightmare, but I'm feeling better now as I took the camera and lenses out to a local park yesterday for another test run, and all is ok.

 

Ian - Thanks for the SkGrimes suggestion - I've contacted them before and have sent them a note for a quote. And the "$300", well that was only the net cash cost for me.... I sold 2 other 4x5's, a Tamron 300/2.8, Nikon FG, 2 projectors and misc photo stuff to pay for all of it... so if I damaged this camera, I've got no money to get another... :-(

 

Brian - "Maybe DSLRs aren't quite as fragile relative to LF cameras as we might think." I can' really dissagree with you. Any piece of equipment has it's vulerabilities and associated repair costs. I guess I felt a little more sense of control because I was able to fix it myself. Get a crack on any modern-day molded camera body and you don't have much of a choice. And BTW, nothin' per se, against digital... I've got 2 myself, although the pt-n-shoot variety, not a dslr. Still got the Nikon F4

 

Paul - "But if I acquired a Cherry wood 4X5 camera, it would sit on a shelf with a glass cover to be viewed as an object of beauty. "

 

I know if I had to use a LF for living, with daily abuse, wear and tear, I probably wouldn't be using a wood camera. As it is, I probably only use it a dozen or so times per year (planning on much more this year with the new gear) - and personally, since it's not a daily routine, I like the attention, questions and the chat that always happens with these cameras in the field - I've met some nice folks. Of course it does get tiring hearing "Did you know Ansel Adams..." or "how old is that camera?"....

 

Well, thanks for contributing your gaffs and troubles... we've all be there at one time or another.

 

Lon

I wanted to post a note and followup with the upgrades I've been

working on for my 4x5 setup. I posted a couple of other notes

looking for thoughts on field cameras and lenses with a goal of

having enough bellows to support longer lenses. And thanks again to

those who have previously responded for your suggestions.

 

I ended up with a new (new to me) Zone VI camera and 3 lenses for a

net cost to me of less than $300. Although I'll still be looking

for a 75mm to replace my 90mm, this is what I ended up with:

Nikkor SW 90mm/4.5 > Fujinon 135mm > Nikkor 210mm > Nikkor 300mm and

Nikkor 450mm. The Fuji 135mm from KEH (Bargain!) and I still can't

figure out why this was BGN. The Nikkor 300mm from a Photo.net

user - beautiful lens and a fair price - then lastly the Nikkor

450mm off eBay.... overpaid a bit, but lens is in great shape.

 

I do have a question, but first a sad a dramatic story (for me). I

had the Zone VI for just 2 days and the new lenses for less than a

week. I was itching to do some testing so I headed to Yosemite to

hopefully catch Horsetail falls with my new 450mm setup. I got some

shots with the 450 and stuck around til after dark to try some star

trails. When I decided to pack it in, it was of course pitch black

outside and I headed back to the car. I set the tripod down

against the car and went around to open the liftgate. Well,

apparently, I didn't spread the legs of the tripod like I thought I

did..... Yes, the camera and yes, one of the new lenses were still

aboard the tripod... and yup, it came slowly crashing down to the

pavement - face first - even the quick release plate (and thus

camera) popped off the tripod upon impact. I was dumbfounded... at

least if it was a person, I could have performed CPR! I was beyond

mad, I couldn't even utter a word (normally, I might spew a few 4-

letter words...)

 

I finally had the nerve to inspect the damage. The good news was

that the lens mounted at the time was the BGN Fuji 135mm lens from

KEH... and thank God I had a filter on there.... no glass damage and

I think the lens survived. Camera had some problems that I couldn't

figure out - so I just loaded it in the car and headed for home.

What a long drive home that was.

 

Turns out the 4x5 did suffer some serious damage. The right-rear

focusing rail split/broke from the rear standard in 2 places - of

course where the wood was the thinnest and weakest. So the rear

standard could no longer be focused/moved. The front focusing rails

also lost some good chunks of wood off the corners, but otherwise

still functional.

 

I spent the next 3 days with my new camera in intensive care. I dis-

assembled the camera. I used wood glue and clamps to put the rear

focusing rail back together. after it dried overnight, I secured

with 2 additional brass screws (including countersinking...) I

stained the missing corners on the front so they didn't stand out so

bad and re-assembled the camera. After all is said and done, I was

quite pleased with myself in bringing this camera back to life. It

now is quite functional and everything works... it just has a my own

dings as well as sweat in to it...

 

This whole ordeal only re-enforces my love for traditional

photography. Had I been shooting a $5K DSLR setup... I'd have to

send the thing in and hope I got it back in 3months - and better

hope I had a service contract or insurance. Something sweet and

simple about wood, brass and a couple of screws....

 

Anyway, I had a question about the Nikkor 450mm and extension....

which I found out I'm lucky if I can focus on a flat subject at 50+

feet. I spent 20 minutes trying to focus on Horsetail falls.... But

I'll leave that for another topic....

 

thanks for listening and for past advice. I guess I just wanted to

vent...

 

Thanks,

Lon

Thanks guys.

Michael, I had been thinking in those terms as well trying to figure out a good balance. Going by factors as you suggested kind of rules out the 150mm for me. I think my approach of starting at the ends (75mm and 450mm) and working in makes it harder. So if I bring the 90mm back in to the mix for a minute... things look pretty good:

 

90mm < 1.5x > 135mm < 1.55x > 210mm < 1.43x > 300mm < 1.5x > 450mm

 

which is exactly what Mark is suggesting! Minus the 65mm...

 

So, I've just ordered a Fujinon 135mm from KEH and previously picked up the Nikkor-M 450mm off eBay. With the 90mm and 210mm I already have, I'll be looking for a good deal on a 300mm lens and forego the 75mm and contemplate a 65mm.

 

Which leads me to a question. From what I can find, the max coverage on a 65mm lens is about 170mm. Is that enough coverage for 4x5? Seems you would have pretty much no room for any movements. From what I recall, isn't a sheet of 4x5 about 160mm corner to corner? I think I would like the perspective of a 65mm as I believe it has a similar view as what would be about 18-20mm in 35mm.

 

Any experience with 65mm in the landscape world, coverage and movements?

 

Thanks,

Lon

Just looking for some more opinions as a move forward with moving up

my 4x5 to include the longer bellows AND adding a couple of new

lenses. For background, I shoot pretty much exclusively

landscape/nature type images on Fuji Velvia. I have only Nikkor

210mm and Nikkor-SW 90/4.5 and I use the 210 most of the time.

I find the 90mm just barely not wide enough and would like a 75mm

 

I've since purchased a Nikkor 450mm and will be getting a later

model Zone VI shortly.

 

My current thinking is to have the following:

75 > 135 > 210 > 300 > 450

 

My question(s) is.... there seems to be a number of 150mm lenses

available at good prices. I may have to postpone getting a 75mm and

live with the 90mm for a while.... I'm wondering if the 135mm is so

much closer in terms of angle of view that I should get the 150mm?

With the 150mm being more of the "normal" lens, would I get more use

than the 135mm? I'm afraid I might not use the 135mm in favor of

the wider 90mm or 75mm, when and if I get one.

 

I guess it boils down to how I shoot and what I would use more

often, which I guess I can only answer.

 

But if anyone feels like expressing there opinions/advice, I'd love

to hear it to help me in one direction or another.

 

Thanks all!

Lon

Thanks for the responses and advice.

 

I like the idea of checking a shoe repair shop or luggage store for the leather handle - got me thinking, several possibilities for replacing the strap.

 

I took the plunge and took the camera apart. I probably spent 10 hours over the last 2 days working on it. I cleaned and polished the brass, stained the edges, scratches and scuff marks, and polished all the wood with Bee's wax (some wood cleaning product my wife had.) I am very happy with the results, it camera looks 100% better than when I started. As Brian indicated, it certainly took lots of patience. I had to disassemble and reassemble the guide rails for the front standard 4 times for various reasons. The huge bummer was that I broke a part in the process. The threaded post that is used for the locking lever of the front standard was sheared off when I was putting it all back together - something to do with not realizing that the threading was clockwise on one side and counter clockwise on the other.... I tried to hard to remove the nut and sheared the threaded post from the base. Live and learn the hard way.

 

Even with that setback, I think the camera is in such good shape now that I can justify spending some money with Marflex and getting the tripod socket, replacement capnuts and now, broken threaded stud. The strap, I'll figure out another source. To sell it and get a good value, as Lee put it, "get it right."

 

Anyway, thanks again for the comments and advice.

Lon

This is a followup to the "thinking out loud" thread posted a couple

weeks ago.

 

I want to sell my Wista 4x5 Field camera to help offset the cost of

getting another field camera with longer bellows to support up to a

450mm lens. I'm down to either a Zone VI or Wisner, and not the

older Zone VI that is a Wisner... plus it only had 12" bellows I

believe. The Zone VI would have to be the post-Calumet version and

alternatively the Wisner Tech or Trad field. all will depend on

what I can find used, good shape and reasonably priced.

 

Anyway....here's my question: Should I put the effort and time in

to fixing a few problems with my Wista for a better value, OR simply

sell as is?

 

Here's some info:

1.Wista 4x5 Field, cherrywood I believe. I don't know the model

number, but has a "D 2" stamped in the bed. I also has the rear

shift feature, 12" bellows

2. Wood finish, bellows and glass are all in EX condition

3. Brass finish is dull, with lots of signs of wear, "brassing" etc.

Certainly completely functional, just not shiny and new

4. 3 cap nuts missing

5. Leather handle needs replacing. I won't pick up the camera with

handle for fear of it breaking and camera crashing to the ground.

6. Tripod socket is loose so that when quick-release plate is

attached, there is approx. 1/64" wobble, not quite sure how to

describe.

 

I've contacted Marflex and get replacement strap, at least some of

the capnuts and get the optional tripod mount with 1/4 and 3/8

mounts, all for just over $100. The brass can easily be polished

up, but to do it properly, it should be taken apart and the brass

cleaned separately. I don't want to mess up the wood finish.

 

I've used this for landscape work for 5 years and am not selling

because of any of the above problems, I just want to add longer

lenses and thus need longer extension.

 

So, should I sell as is, describing the condition as above, OR do

you think putting the $100+ in to it will bring the value up enough

to cover the cost? Any recommendations for cleaning up the brass,

without ruining the wood finish?

 

Thanks in advance,

Lon

I agree with Michael, a very small amount of side to side movement is ok. If the looseness is front to back because of the varied thickness of the board, you'll have a light leak problem...

Diego,

 

Perhaps it is the English translation, but I do not understand "IS IT NORMAL THAT THEY MOVE INTO THE FRONT PANEL??? " Do you mean should the lensboard be loose when installed in the front standard?

They should fit snug. If loose, they are not the correct lensboard.

For Tachihara, I believe these are common and/or compatible with Linhof Technika style boards, also for Shen-Hao. But with 2 different thicknesses, one or both of the lensboards are not the right ones.

 

Also, for reference, a ~35mm hole is for a Copal 0 shutter, ~42mm for Copal 1 and ~65mm for Copal 3. I'm not sure where a 40mm hole works, perhaps the measurement is just a bit off.

 

Hope this helps, if not, please clarify.

Lon

Thanks once again for the responses. This has been very helpful. I'm sure there are some folks like me that when I get a bug up my a**, I'm on a mission. Just ask my wife.... she wonders why I don't have the same passion for re-landscaping the backyard.... :-)

 

I've boiled my decision points to the following in order of priority:

 

1. Camera with extension to support 75mm thru 450mm. Bag bellows ok - doesn't seem like it would be too much hassle, just another accessory to carry around.

2. $$$. If all goes as planned, I may have about $2K to spend. I'll try and sneek through some miscellaneous expenses like lens boards, filters, etc....

3. Fujinon or Nikkor 450mm lens for sure. Next a 75mm and bellows. I can keep the 210 for the intermediate term and sell/trade the 90mm.

4. Next would be something in the normal range of 150mm and then something to complete the series in between the 150 and 450, probably trade/sell 210 for a 240?

5. While not a major factor.... Scott mentioned: "..but I too LOVE the look of the woods." Just reminds me of those times when passers-by will ask "how old is that camera" or even better... "did you know Ansel Adams?" :-) Gotta love it. If I was making a living at this, I probably wouldn't care... but it's a passion and the look of a classic wood camera keeps me in the traditional photographic mindset.

 

So, here's where I'm at so far:

 

Looked into the specs of the DLC45 and this would fit my needs as far as priority 1 goes. There's even a used one at Badger for about $1500. But it seriously eats into my budget and probably just enough to get the 450. Adv: No expense for bag bellows! Disadv: Cost, #5 above :-)

 

I think I'm down to the Wisner (Tech or Trad) and a Zone VI (post Wisner, with bellows extension). Looks like KEH has all 3 ranging in price from $1099, $995 and $695 respectively. There's also a Wisner Trad on eBay I'm watching with buy-it-now of $975.

 

The question now becomes, is there a sufficient difference in quality or operation between the two that warrants the $3-400 difference? (lets assume for argument sake they are in the same "used" condition.) I could add a lens. OTOH, if I really think this will be the last 4x5 I'll ever need and want to keep this for a long, long, time... am I better off getting the Wisner?

 

So, all this thinking out loud.... does this sound like I'm talking myself in to the Wisner Traditional? The one closing on eBay in 2 days??? :-)

 

Thanks for allowing the blabber and thanks again for the help!

Lon

Wow! Thanks for all the detailed and varied responses. I will take a little time absorbing all this and will be responding back with more thoughts and questions... but for now, I'm doing my other job and will get back.

 

This will be very, very helpful... Thanks!

Lon

Ok, I know I'm the one who knows my photography tendancies, goals,

shooting style etc., so I'm just looking for your commentary on my

dilema so I can make an informed decision.

 

Here's the situation. I want to upgrade and/or add to my current

set up, the capability to use a longer focal length with 4x5.

 

Background: I shoot primarily color, landscape, outdoor, nature

portrait type stuff. I started with a Busch Pressman, quickly got a

hold of a Nagaoka Field and for the last several years have been

using a Wista Field 4x5 with Nikkor 90mm and 210mm lenses. I like

the camera and found that about %80 of my shot selections are with

the 210mm. I also love the wide angle perspective for landscapes,

but the 90mm just doesn't quite make the 20mm perspective I was used

to in my 35mm days. I would actually like to move to a 75mm. I

also want a much longer focal length of at least 360mm, but I'm

drooling over having a Fujinon C 450mm, which of course requires

much more bellows than I currently have.

 

So... the dilema, keep in mind I'm starting to sell off photo stuff

to try and afford this swap, so money is certainly a limitation for

me.

 

Option 1. Keep my Wista, which I "think" (haven't researched yet)

can handle a 75mm without bag bellows. Get a 300mm which may work,

noting limited close focus issues. And/or get a longer "T"

telephoto lens at 360mm which I might be able to use with the

Wista. Pro: don't have to fork out money for a new body, although I

might settle for a new Tachihara or Shen-Hao.

 

Option 2. Sell and save up for a used Wisner Traditional(or

equivalent with lots of extension.) Plenty of extension for what

I'm looking for in the longer focal lengths. Con: from what I've

read in various places, 90mm BARELY works and would need bag bellows

if I wanted the 75mm. I could live with the 90 and save for the bag

bellows.... but this would be another couple hundred bucks - not

including the 75mm lens, which I don't have... yet. I want both

ends of the spectrum... am I dreaming?

 

Someday... I would like to have 75mm, 135/150 normal, 210mm, 300

(optional to complete the range) and 450mm. I like the 210 and will

trade or sell the 90 towards another lens.

 

Rail cameras are out of the question for me as I pack everything in

a Tenba pack so I can walk around the woods.... I'm not adverse to

closeups and studio/still life - in fact may do more of that to

supress the withdrawls of not getting to Yosemite, Big Sur, etc. :-)

 

I guess this was really an exercise for me to put down in written

form what I'm trying to decide... but any commentary would be

appreciated. Many of you may have gone through this process in the

past.

 

Any practical experience on the Wisner (I've read all the political

Ron Wisner stuff), but in terms of wide angle and extension, I would

appreciate your thoughts. Is there another non-rail field camera

that would fit my needs?

 

Once I decide on my path, I'll work on the lenses. (ok, already

doing that.... just adding up how much I need to save up for. )

 

Thanks, look forward to any responses and sorry for rambling...

Regards,

Lon

David,

 

I've been going to Yosemite in the winter for the last 10 yrs with a wood field camera. I've never seen it get below 25F in the valley, so it's really not all that cold. I've used a lightweight Nagaoka field and Wista Field with no focusing or movement issues. Depending on your metabolism, you'll have more problems with numb fingers... :-) I'm one of those that if you layer properly, I can have my hands exposed and they never get cold - neither do my feet... :-)

 

Regarding chains.... you will be required to "carry" them, but highly unlikely you'll need to put them on unless you want to travel up to Tunnel View. They will have a park ranger at the Bridal Veil parking lot checking chains or 4WD with snow/mud tires.

 

As far as renting them... you're better off renting them locally before you go and practice putting them on before you leave. This will save you the rip-off cost of paying someone in the park or having to buy them in a remote place that will charge you inflated prices.

"Chains" are kind of a generic term like "xerox copy", etc. For passenger cars and even SUV's you should be using cable chains. Many rental car places won't allow you to use chains, but cable chains may be acceptable.

 

I did a quick search on google and here's a link that may be helpful:

http://www.yosemite.ca.us/phorum/read.php?f=2&i=161&t=161

(searched for "car chain rentals california")

 

BTW, where are you traveling from? I would recommend Highway 140 out of Merced. Both the other entrances, 120 and 41 both travel to high elevations before reaching the valley and you WILL be putting on chains. Traveling highway 140, it's entirely likely you will never need chains nor will you be asked if you have them.

 

but like the Boy Scouts.... always be prepared.

 

Hope this helps,

Lon

Ok Mario, so I exaggerated. :-)

 

Inside the bag, it's really less than a minute per holder... so 13 of them, yup, about 10min as the other response. But I was counting the entire process..... get back to the car after trudging thru the snow, unload the bag and vest off my back, locate my film bag....

clock starts..... I'm sweaty from the hike so I leave the car door open and make sure my hands are clean and dry ... have to arrange the film holders on the dashboard so they don't fall off.... get the changing bag, assemble my "frame", insert the box of exposed film, unexposed film, holders, etc... make sure I have the count straight in my head as to how many pieces of film I'm actually transferring..... get all set up, then actually unload and reload film (10min).... oh, I left the door open at Yosemite's tunnel view and a passer by gives me a real odd looks like what the heck are you doing in that bag.... finish loading, everything is light-tight, put everything away, store the holders in ziploc bags and I'm ready to go.... yeah, about 20-25min start to finish.

 

The key is planning. don't ever be caught having to load film while the sun is either coming up, or going down....

 

Lastly, and for those just learning how to load film, once you've done it a few times, it becomes second nature. It's amazing to me how easily manipulating the holder, film, boxes, etc. can be without sight and only using your hands. Of course there have been times when I've forgotten to reverse the dark slides and double-exposed a shot, or taken a shot with no film in the holder. And who hasn't forgotten to close the lens preview lever before removing the dark slide? :-)

 

To the light side of LF photography... gotta luv it.

Alan,

 

Another variation of most the answers already posted.

 

I would recommend getting at least 5 film holders to start with. This way you can unload an entire box of film holding 10 sheets and now you have an empty box, including the cardboard sleeve and flat bag the film came in. Once you start exposing more film, you will always have this rotation of boxes to take/ship exposed film to the lab.

 

I use a changing bag and constructed a simple "frame" out of pvc pipe and fittings. It's about 12-14" in width and 8 or 10" high. Think of a box with one side open and replace the box in your mind with the pvc frame - kinda like tinker toys? Anyway, the parts aren't glued together so I can assemble/disassemble in the field.

If you want I can take a picture of the setup and send it to you.

 

Ultimately, I now have 13 film holders which allows me to load 25sheets of film. This is convenient because a box of 50 sheets comes with two separate packages of 25. I've got the process down where I can unload and reload 13 holders in about 20-25min.

 

Also, I store 4 holders in ziplock bags, usually doubled. I carry 2 of these in my photo vest or backpack while walking around away from the car.

 

Anyway, back to your original question. I've always unloaded the film myself and sent to the lab. Never had any problems with ruining film. Obviously when you've unloaded you need to be able to identify which box has exposed and which boxes are unexposed. :-)

 

Not sure where you're located, but I've been sending my film to PhotoCraft labs in Boulder, CO for over 10 years and am very, very happy with their service. It's now about $1.40 per sheet for E6, plus shipping. http://www.pcraft.com

 

Hope this helps,

Lon

Mitchel,

 

I'm not familiar with the Epson, but I've done this on an older UMAX Astra 4450 with excellent results printed to 16x20. Obviously you can't get the cleanest, sharpest from a flatbed compared to a drum scan... but the cost of quality scan is way too expensive for me for just personal use.

 

Having said that, it does take a little work to get a good scan and in least in my case not all images will scan well (slightly underexposed or images with large shadow areas) And no matter what your scan source, you'll still have Photoshop work to get the image in print quality form.

 

I guess the bottom line is what are the scans/prints for? If you have a client or potential sale/use, then someone else can pay for the scan. :-) Otherwise, I find it hard to justify the cost. If you're scanning for the web and an occasional print, a flatbed should suit your needs.

 

hope this helps,

Lon

Matthew,

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned and just as serious a consideration is the switch and mind-set change going to LF. You have to ask yourself why you would want to shoot LF... more detail? larger prints? ability to get that tremendows depth of field with tilts and swings?

 

I mention this because I made the swith many years ago - and not without a LOT of frustration. If you think you can shoot both 35mm/digital AND 4x5 at the same time, consider this. For a couple of years and many photo outings I tried shooting both. As you might suspect 4x5 takes a lot more time in choosing a composition and then setup, focusing, etc. More times than not, you're shooting when the light is changing fast - not a time to be switching between formats. I came very close to canning the whole LF idea (started with a Busch Pressman). It wasn't until I made the decision that 4x5 was my primary goal that I began to enjoy LF photography. I haven't looked back since.

 

Your outlook on shot selection completely changes. If you have an eye for composition and lighting, you have a head start. Shooting LF is NOT a pt-n-shoot mentality. You must manually select a scene and commit to the shot - otherwise you're wasting at least $2 every time you press the shutter. Digital and to some extent 35mm, you can fire away, bracket and hope for a good image out of a roll or with digital, delete, delete, delete.

 

Another consideration is what your intent is after processing. LF scans are expensive.... but I've had decent results using a flatbed scanner with transparency adaptor. I've had prints made on LightJet 5000's with excellent results from a cheap UMAX scanner and minimal Photoshop work.

 

In the end, LF photography keeps me in the spot that I enjoy most... being in the outdoors capturing images. LF really slows you down and allows you to focus on scenes that are important to you.

 

Hope this alternate view helps in your decision. BTW, I only have 2 lenses, Nikkor 90 and 210mm - I wish I had a 300. Also, as I said I started with a Pressman, then purchased a reasonable Tachihara which worked well for me until my wife bought me a used Wista field camera.

But in the end, it's not the camera or lens, it's who's behind the glass....

 

Regards,

Lon