douglas_vitello

<p>When EOS was released back in 1987 they made a really nice quality metal mount 50mm 1.8 lens that was their mainstay until the 50mm 1.4 was released in 1992.I have no idea why it was replaced with 'the plastic fantastic' current version.A sad situation because the 50mm 1.4 is very failure prone and a nice clean early 50 1.8 are much sought after these days and the cost is high.A lot of folks pick up a clean used 50mm EOS macro instead.Yes,Canon needs to rethink both their standard 50mm lenses.</p>

 

<p>JDM,<br>

You have class and appreciation for the old and new.Got to love anyone still shooting that loveable funky old 600 series Canons.Kudos to you and others that don't stop using something just because it is not state of the art.Like you I shoot a lot of static stuff and love my 630's.The viewfinder is so good that flipping to manual focus and using the laser matte focusing screen nails it perfectly if lighting is less than perfect.No big deal especially doing macro on a tripod.</p>

<p>May as well toss in my two cents worth.I still own a couple EOS 630's (and a Elan IIe) and no doubt they are technology dated but the upside is they are built very well,cheap to purchase,and have many pro features if you need them.I agree some things are a little strange but then again it was Canon's first attempt at autofocus trying to catch up with the blockbuster Minoltas. The focus is not really that bad if you tilt them off axis a few degrees while composing (they work especially well with the EOS 28 - 105mm for some reason).The downside is all the early EOS cameras have a problem with the shutter bumper degrading and leaving a goo on the shutter blades so the camera will need a cleaning to continue functioning.It is almost a given in warmer climates and I had mine corrected years ago and both continue to work perfectly to this day.The EOS 3 is a outstanding camera but sounds like it is priced much too high for your budget.<br>

I would recommend a EOS Elan II because they do just about everything,are inexpensive,and are built a little better than some of the earlier and later consumer grade models.They do not have the shutter 'goo' problem.</p>

<p>Looks like a lot of us are in the same boat these days!Other matters have become a priority (like filling up the gas tank and eating)and something has to give.I just can't justify spending $20 - $30 dollars for 36 images anymore and the cameras have become devices for mostly documentation of events.Don't need 10 cameras and 25 lenses to do that.<br>

BTW Mark : My digital is a ancient Canon Pro1 point and shoot.<br>

No plans to add anything more at this point.Living more like my parents did - 1 or 2 of what is necessary to get through the day.</p>

<p>I recently downsized my kit too but most of the stuff was EOS instead of FD!<br>

Of course I kept the F1N's and all accessories.<br>

Kept the T70's (3) & Ae1p (1) because there are many times when I want to travel light and the market has priced them as virtually worthless.Kept my AT1 because it was my first 35mm camera.<br>

Kept all the FDn glass except for a few fast primes that still command a decent resale price and are unnecessary with fast B&W films.<br>

Basically I'm back to where I was approx 25 years ago and happy with less stuff that will get used more often.I guess that is the goal in a digital world.<br>

Shooting more B&W too because the cost of E6 is starting to get out of hand.<br>

I'd think real hard about what you unload because after a few years of EOS film or digital you will long for those simple FD days.It usually kicks in during your mid 50's when your shooting a digital and can't remember how to use the damn thing.............Or when you just lost a bunch of images because the computer,camera,software,transfer,etc,etc choked.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Well Alan you gave it a good try,thanks for the effort.I brought this issue up many years ago in the EOS Forum and hit the same brick wall - nowhere to go in a mostly digital forum.Canon produced FD for about 25 years and it looks like EOS film will last about the same lifespan in production.The problem is a lot of the FD equipment I own is getting towards the end of its service life and is not worth the investment for CLA/repair anymore.FD arrived on the scene 40 years ago!As E6 approaches $20 a roll to purchase and process there is not a lot of money remaining to fix ancient equipment.I'm sure many others are in the same boat.I'll never give up on my F1's and L lenses but I'm getting more reluctant to bang them around for general purpose use so I've been using more of the film EOS equipment that I've picked up for next to nothing over the years.That is the main advantage to the EOS film equipment,it is a lot newer and has little resale value.I figure you are correct because in a few years all of us are going to be in the Classic Camera Forum like it or not.In a digital world FD & EOS film together are probably about 1/10 of 1% of the market.</p>

<p>Personally I think it would be a good idea because the daily posts (in regards to film equipment) on both forums are minimal at best.Most FD guys already have a extensive collection of film EOS equipment in their arsenal.Many started the gradual transition many years ago because FD had been discontined and they wanted to move on to the latest hardware.Maybe call it The Canon SLR Film Camera Forum? If you shoot a T90 FD you are already 90% EOS anyway.Most posts on FD have been asked a thousand times before and EOS film would bring fresh interest in Canon film based equipment.If something is not done soon the FD form is going to get shut down due to lack of interest and boredom.</p>

<p>Lets just be thankful that Kodak introduced this breakthrough film back during the Great Depression and it inspired numerous companies to match or better it in the following decades.You must ask yourself "what if this great film had never come to market in the first place".The color films that followed soon after were terrible and it took decades for the others to catch up.It was truly groundbreaking technology that changed photography forever.<br>

This would be like badmouthing the original F1 of 1971 ( has anyone remembered this year marks fourty years of FD?) as garbage in comparison to the latest (and probably last) great film camera from Canon the EOS 1V.There would be no EOS 1V if the original F1 had never been developed in the first place.<br>

Yes,the E6 of today on a light table under a good loupe is still as good as it gets.It all started with Kodachrome.My only hope is that E6 does not go the way of Kodachrome in the future due to lack of interest or appreciation.</p>

 

<p>A very difficult decision too say the least.I agree with Dave that there are very few film cameras worth putting lots of money into these days unless they are top end pro equipment.Something to consider if you go to sell it or move over to the dark side (digital).Remember it is a very old electronic camera and even with a CLA it will continue to need lots of service.<br>

That said,my first Canon back in 1978 was a AT1 and yes it was a good camera to learn photography on back in 1978 but even by the standards of those days it was obsolete (as Dave makes very clear).I quickly moved on to a A1 that was not my cup of tea then a F1N that was perfect.I am still in love with F1Ns and shoot them to this day.Matched needle settings,partial metering screen,full real time viewfinder information,rapid exposure compensation,etc,etc.The best thing about the AT1 was it was a very quiet camera,small,and light,and inexpensive to purchase new.If you must have a A Series I would pick up a clean AE1p.Ugly is in the eye of the beholder but like Dave I shoot and have turned on many beginners to T70's.<br>

Just because some of us had to learn photography on a full manual machine,learn to drive a car with a stick shift,dial a phone with a rotary,write and mail a letter via postal doesn't necessarily make it the best choice for today's world.Heck,my nephew just started a high school photography class (thank goodness they still start them on film!)using my 'old' Canon ElanIIe (a mid 90's auto everything autofocus SLR) and the teacher thought it was the perfect starter camera.That made me sad but that is the reality of the world we now live in.I'm just thankful he is learning on film and does not get bored too quickly before moving over to digital.<br>

I don't have a lot of time anymore to participate in this forum but when I see the subject appear in regards to a AT1 and T70 I just had to find the time!Nonetheless I still pop in and read just about every chance I get.BTY:Still shooting F1N's and T70'S most of the time.Still own my first AT1 but nowdays it is mostly a keepsake.</p>

<p>I knew our hobby was in deep trouble when numerous coworkers and friends started bragging about the pathetic quality of the images coming off their cell phones - people who mostly if you handed them a 35mm SLR or DSLR wouldn't know what end to look into.I believe the whole hobby is in dire straights because people have come to accept mediocrity as the norm.Not just in photography but in just about all aspects of modern life.I'll keep shooting my Canon F1 and E6 until they have to pry the damn thing from my cold dead hand.</p>

<p>No getting around it film sales are tanking badly the past ten years.Then again have you looked at higher end digital SLR sales for Canon & Nikon lately - the economy is bad all over and taking a toll on everything photographic (except maybe cellphone cameras).Kodak's best hope is Fuji throws in the towel before they do and they pick up that share like what happened when Agfa went belly up.Someone will remain and I hope it will be Kodak for at least another decade.A all digital world will be a very strange and uncomfortable place for many people who love the art of photography.</p>

<p>Adam,<br>

I don't own a A1 anymore but I shoot AE1p's (very similar light metering)and the way I've found too be most effective in difficult lighting is to substitute meter and lock the reading with the meter lock button.The manual that came with the camera explains the procedure quite well.If the scene is average lighting (18% grey) go ahead and let the A1 do it all on automatic for you.</p>

<p>Canon for a long time was chosen because they offered the partial metering feature.It is fundamental for precision exposure control.It disappeared during the A Series duration then reappeared with the T Series and has been a feature on every EOS (film & digital) ever since.Most others offer it now too so I believe Canon had it right from the beginning.If you can't nail the proper exposure with a F1 and partial metering screen then you really are better off just using a point and shoot for the majority of your serious photography.If you shoot a lot of slide film under difficult lighting you will find a F1 on manual with partial metering is as effective and most times faster than most other types of metering with exposure compensation.Matrix metering is pot luck under difficult lighting.Sounds difficult but shoot a F1 for a month and it will all become crystal clear.</p>

<p>Canon EOS 50mm 1.4 (broken 3 times under very light use, so far).Absolutely the most troublesome and poorest designed product I've ever owned. The lens is nothing but a endless money pit.It is so weak that I almost always resort to my 'old' Canon FD manual focus system when I need a fast 50 - over 30 years old and still performs like new every time.Optics just as good if not better.</p>

<p>I don't know if all Canon EOS Forum members are aware of it but Canon sells factory remanufactured cameras at huge discounts over purchasing new.These are factory refurbs by Canon sold by Canon through their Canon Direct Store (Google It).They come with a 90 day warranty (but not a battery) and are usually flawless and like new.30D/40/D/50D etc,have disappeared from just about every else but Canon still has them.</p>

<p>Jeff,<br />I knew you could do it!The first time I took a T70 apart I felt the same way but quickly realized some things can still be done DIY.Most folks don't realize what a impressive little camera it is.Most reviews back in the day when it was released (1984) were very impressed by the solid feel,build quality,and performance.By no means was it considered a cheap novice model.It is unreal one of these can be purchased for $50 these days.<br />I'm glad you appreciate the advise.Many thanks.That is what I love about this FD Forum,most everyone here goes out of their way to help fellow members who are trying to keep FD equipment alive and kicking despite the digital hurricane winds blowing our way.</p>

<p>I don't know Mark.I once had my F1N fall out a Domke bag and roll down two flights of hardwood steps and the only damage was a dented pentaprism that my CLA shop was able to disassemble and pound out the dents to original perfection (the guy is good).The other option was to replace it with a $50 E bay one in less than 30 seconds.On the other hand my T90 has gone through 1 battery compartment door,3 battery holders,gave up on command back lcd's due to bleeding, one shutter replacement,and a erratic mirror return stop that caused me many a unfocused shots until the CLA guy figured out what was causing the problem and it never took a tumble in its life (so far).I don't even want to talk about my life with plastic EOS bodies and lenses.Then again maybe I just been lucky/unlucky.Or cursed. </p>

<p>Maybe they should of nicknamed the T90 the F -16 (advanced and fast) and the F1N the B -52 (deliver the payload under any brutal condition)?Personally I never understood that Japanese analogy because the F1 was the one built like a tank and kind of looked somewhat like one too.F1N was the end of one era and the T90 was the gateway to a new one.Drop each one from two foot on a hardwood floor a half dozen times and guess which one would deserve the "Tank" nickname.......I know this is way off subject but every once in a while we need to lighten (no pun) up on the FD Forum.</p>

<p>F1N 795g<br>

T90 800g<br>

T70 530g<br>

T50 490g<br>

A1 620g<br>

AE1p 575g<br>

AL1 490g<br>

AV1 490g<br>

AE1 590g</p>

<p>I hope you are talking about film bodies here because in that regards they are all full frame unlike the crop sensor digital bodies.If you are talking digital tour the Canon EOS Forum because the full frame vs crop sensor issue will drive you crazy and a lot of us FD guys remain FD guys for that very reason.One of the lightest Canon film bodies is the T50 (the T60 is not made by Canon and has numerous build issues).The T50 is made mostly from plastic and was a testbed for the EOS film series too see how well plastic would hold up in consumer hands over time.If you are talking full metal frame one of the best choices would be a AE1p.Many FD owners who shoot F1N's slip one of these in their carry bag as a back up because when you are dealing with a 30 year old camera things do break at times.Most backups are determined by compatible battery and flash usage thus F1N/AE1p (same flash gun PX28 battery,T90/T70/T50 (similar workable flash gun AA battery).I hope this info helps.</p>

<p>Jeff,<br />The T70 is pretty easy to take apart to get at the on/off slider switch contacts.All you need is a jewelers type phillips head screw driver to remove the external panels.The top and front panel are held on with external screws that are easy to find and remove.No need to unsolder anything to do a quick cleaning.With a little logic you can figure it out.The only part that you need to carefully understand on reassembly is the back cover release slider and button assembly.I would give it a try because the camera is worthless otherwise.I use electrical contact cleaner on the contacts applied with a Q Tip applicator (never a pencil erasor).When you look at the switch contacts you will quickly understand what needs to be cleaned.<br />The T70 is a fantastic little gem and worth picking up another one if you are not confident to try a repair on the one you own now.I own 3 and many times grab one of them instead of my F1N's or T90 because they do such a great job and are so compact and light.As others have said the T70 is a greatly misunderstood and underappreciated camera.I'd take one over anything in the A Series anyday.</p>

<p>I believe the Canon manual focus line is well respected worldwide and needs not take a back seat to anyone - especially Nikon and Leica when cost of ownership (new and second hand) is factored in.The F1 series and T90 are right up there at the top in America and Japan if you are talking 'legend".In my thirty years of photography Canon was always at the top of the list when folks were shopping for 35mm new or used so I really don't understand any of this.Oly,Pentax,Minolta,etc, - come on guys get real.Yeah,they made great camera systems but better in people's minds than Canon?I've owned and used Canon FD,EOS (film & digital) and always come back to FD after the novelty wears off the more current stuff.I made the huge mistake of once selling off my FD collection and after one year of EOS film repurchased just about everything I previously owned, plus more.There is a feel and charm with FD that was lacking in the more current gear that I wasn't aware of until it was gone.The digital I've shot has been cool for the quicky stuff but otherwise has left me stone cold and all of it I consider use and toss.I don't think any modern digital camera will attain 'legend' status because modern technology burns bridges too quickly and you end up with a very expensive doorstop in a insane short period of time.<br>

What started all this second guessing about FD?Was it that Ken Rockwell story?I admire him for his logic on film based photography but when it comes to gear he has some strong opinions and obviously doesn't care for Canon manual focus.Should we even care on this forum?</p>

 

<p>Stuart,<br>

I think a lot of us FD guys are a little on edge after that '(Lack of) Familiarity Breeds Contempt' post.I know as a F1N user it kind of ticked me off.The A1 is a fine camera but like others have said for the money a T Series does a pretty decent job for about the same cash outlay.F1's are more about long term resale value and brutal abuse (kind of like a real 4 x 4 vs a crossover truck).The A Series are one trick ponies when it comes to metering while the T Series (T90 & T70) and F1N series offered 2 -3 metering options - something to think about if you plan to shoot a lot of slides and less print film.</p>

<p>Paul,<br>

I wouldn't discount the F1N 'electronic' version of the F1 series.Though is is packaged with lots of semiconductors it was built to military specifications and has been proven to be as reliable as the original F1's.I own them all and my first pick would still be the latest version mainly because Canon corrected most of my gripes about the original version when they did the redesign.I would bet it still is one of the most troublefree electronic cameras ever produced.Beats the hell out of anything EOS I've ever owned.</p>

<p>Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Nikon never even offered the option of spot or partial metering on the F2 or F3?Yeah,the Canon system is a pain (changing metering screens) but at least they offered the option.KR would probably be happy with a Canon A1 and a MA motor drive.</p>