ishi_p

<p>You also have the way lenses breath (they change focal length during focus) So maybe different configurations will do this to different extents. Probably not much of a factor, just a thought. </p>

<p><em> there is no accouting for how people react at key moments. </em>I would disagree there . I has a hell of a lot to do with there upbringing and what scociety promotes. <br /> Anyone who has had a member of there family who pushes them to the point where loosing is simply to much for them will know how this is. <br /> That kind of pressure that exists for many is just that, pressure. And then if (or when) things do go bad for them they simply can't take it. Even if it was luck.</p>

<p>Steve, thanks for that. Though i'm yet undicided how if feel about them, only looked at the critic so far.</p>

<p>It certainly emphasizes negativity. It's probably not good for me to investigate any further, i'm negitive enough. For me it can be paralysing.<br /> I may post one of my more personal works. i'll see.</p>

 

<p>It make me wonder what it is to exel. It is deap in our cultue that achievement is based on beating others. I wonder if it does in fact create a better scociety, more like it just makes it very good for the few.<br /> Where as in truth there are so many ways of assessing sucsess. Is it fair for anyone to say they can disinguish.<br /> (Three months later he commited suicide due to depression.) It makes me think, The winners can become losers also, but we are still all encouraged to win, regardless of the risks to the competitors. Not that I mind sport.<br /> Anyhow thanks for posting that Marcus, I like how your post (and photo) is thought provoking yet is not (or seems to me)...................polarized?...Or maybe that your points are not about (winning) the argument. <br /> I am way to much.</p>

<p> If it says 50 mm it's probaly close. Do you mean narrower view? A longer lens, say 55mm has narrower view. </p>

<p>BTW, Is this lens flair prone? </p>

<p>"T<em>his is a follow the cash photo, nothing more." k</em><br /><em>Don't you have any compassion for the dead horse you continue to beat? Again, so you say, and so what.</em><br>

<em></em><br /> <em>"K"</em> and an insult.<br>

<br /> Cant you drag up anything better. Who has the dead horse?</p>

<p>Barry i'm not trying to get at anyone, But I will talk hard, and people talk hard to me.<br /> BTW I like you b&w stuff, The only criticism I would make (not that I think i'm something spacial) Is the lack of your own position. Maybe If you could make them show how you felt about something they would be even better. Or at least got them to show something more particular. <br /> As it is they are like many arguments on this thread, maybe respecting or paying homage to past works/ideas, but how much of yourself is in them. Do you just stand up for it because others have? <br /> I went to are art university and saw lots of this, and I still do it lots of it myself. It's so easy to regard what others have regarded, There so much prase already out there for alike works. So then it's easy to the justify why it's good. In theory.<br /> But to shape your work based on your own experiences and reality. To engage with what you do on a more personal level that goes some way beyond copying is something else. Again I am not saying I am any better. But that's the thought I had so I have posted it.</p>

<p>And I would note that who I feel is the best are more often than not people who have disregarded convention.</p>

<p>This image (to me) is the real dregs from the decisive moment convention.</p>

<p><em>"Some sort of moral truth?" </em>No just some sort of morality involved.<br /> But I applaud you, Yes it is may value judment, and i'm entitleld to it.<br /> I can see Barack Obama now, thinking before his carrer leap, "well people are pretty racist in this scociety, that's the way thing are so i should respect it"or "The world is a rather unfair and bad place, that's life, I'm not going to stand up and do or say what I feel is better...President? come on i'm not a dreamer".</p>

<p>This is a follow the cash photo, nothing more.</p>

<p> </p>

<p><em>And I would not be surprised if you have done that on a few occasions. </em><br>

Agree, Though it may surprise you to know I also try to do things about it. And before you ask, mind you own business. </p>

<p>But justifying that crap stories should be respected today because "that's the way the world is" or was I find rather.....erm... worse than trite anyway. </p>

<p>Come to think of it, any good pictures from the civil rights movement of that year. Or is it acceptable not to consider such things back then because that's when people where more racist anyway? </p>

<p>I'd take any picture that informs of something happening it the world that promotes some kind of positive action or engagement. Over this. Is that so bad. </p>

<p>I hear what your saying Ralph. And i though the same thing. But then I thought why should I have to dig about finding stories or photos I find more worthy of praise? Frankly i'm allowed to say what I feel is not worthy without having to back myself up, though I did many times. <br /> I alredy gave many reasons why, you could not take that, and now you want specific examples of better things, nothing makes me think you'll take that eather, why should i waste my time. The fact is i stand by the very first statement I made. That should have been enough, it's not me who need to check myself. I'm quite happy with what i think. You clearly aren't so who has the problem.?<br /> If you want to think i'm some sort of idle dreamer that's fine. And it's so ironic that you slag me off for idle talk when that's all a picture like this really promotes. There is no purpose in it that inspires anything else. maybe an idle chat about how sad the loser was. Yea real productive. What have you added to photography by observing and taking about it. There is nothing interesting about the article, it's a rather morbid sad story. I'd rather not muse about other peoples problems myself. <br /> I'm sure you'd be happier to engage in idle talk about this rather than what you have done. So should I be disregerded so easly? <br /> But it's ok I don't need you to regard me at all. I think we should end this particular argument now anyway.</p>

<p>Anyway bedtime for me. (: ZZZ</p>

<p><em>Has anyone realised the irony of that</em>? Indeed, it's one of the first things that struck me.</p>

<p><em>"had killed the most powerful man in the world" </em> Thats says it all for me really. The mind set and culture. Lap dogs to the man, and obviously you can't go attacking your own insitutions. That would undermine the very culure your trying to exploit in order further your own career. And I imagine some see the only way to do that is to promote what the media and such do. Go with the crowd, no matter if it's good or not. It's just a job after all. <br /> <em>"had killed the most powerful man in the world" = </em>Has the most bombs. Is that power. The power to destroy? Or do you mean rich. IE, the power to exploit the markets?<br /><br /> <em>"But there was no story bigger than the assassination that year" . </em>I wonder if anyone ever wrote a story that prevented one? Now that's a thought.</p>

<p>No John, I would rather "step up to the plate".</p>

<p>And i am not picking on any invaidual, We are all part of this and i dont know anyone well enough indavidualy to say what part they play in this.</p>

<p><em>Robert Adams or Edward Weston</em>, i did not mention them once. Just because I don't respect there work much, (as much as some) does not mean I'm going to go picking holes in there character. Directly calling them fools and such. I don't know them well enough. I normally reserve respect for individuals.</p>

<p>Hugh.<br /> Indeed why stop there. The culture of sensationalism and idol-ism. Does it do any good what so ever. I'm all for good reporting but these are just images. Images that are slightly devoid from reality, as all are. At the time I think yes, perhaps news worthy along with a good article. But the way there glorified just sticks in my gut a but. <br /> And people get wealthy and made winners and losers though such exploitive images. It's all a bit sick to me.<br /> If I took those images I would d be inclined to think, hey man don't award me, go and do something. But that's not what these things are about. After all these intitutions exist within, (and in the same form) as other capitalist, exploitative and market driven systems.<br /> They have no real regard for what is good. And by that I mean adding to society in a valuable way that benefits the whole. They will promote whatever is easiest to sell. Often fear.</p>

<p>RE; 01:21 p.m.</p>

<p>Well I do often find news morbid. I recognizs the importance of the story you just explained (to you) but I feel this image does not represent anything well in itself. You may say that's not important but i feel it is. I'm sure there are plenty of other shots that make you regard the situation of thoes events is a different way. At least in a more considered way. Rather than just a crude snapshot of someone being shot. Just becuse that image represents importance to lots of people does not do it for me. <br /> And why should I not be able to judje an image with hindsight, or with a moral viewpoint? Or an award. These are not just images fixed in a single time and place for you to make your judgement on, and it will always be like that.<br /> Fine, if you feel it was worthy for marking a moment, But no images mark these moments well IMO. <br /> I see images as living things within culture, not things that continue to have a fixed meaning that you and others try to tie to it. You will probaly die before me so my meaning will live on after you have stoped sentimentalizing about the past. <br /> Without all the fame, this is an image of someone killing another person. And it's not prize worthy in my view, then or now.<br /> They are my reasons. If you don't like them fair play. Your entiteld to your view.</p>

<p><em>"objective relevance to its merit</em>." How can you say that. All I have been doing is commenting on it's merit. How can you divorce the subject from it's merit.? <br /> And if you do what are you left with. Bird photographers do just the same thing. Again no disrespect intended. There are some outstanding bird shots, But I will decide (and think for myself) what is good thanks, within a given area.</p>

<p>It's the merits of skill alone I don't respect (much). But my comments are more aimed at the institutions and how they manipulate society with there.......guidance? of what is good or important. I'm sure the media loved to spread this image around and i'm sure the art institutions love to parse the work. They do so because it's popular, not because it's good work. It does not make it good IMO and I have yet to hear an argument to makes me think otherwise. There are so many more deserving people theses certain cultures of media miss. That's still my opinion. </p>

<p>I agree, But I often wonder how much I grow in such a place. It really can make you force yourself to find some new thing in the familiar. It is a pain in the behind sometimes. But be aware you can bet someone wants to shoot where you are, and will make some great image where you live. Maybe because they don't live there, but never the less. </p>

<p>"Culture of (barbarity)" that is sorry. My goggle docs is having trouble when I cut from it and it takes me many reading to get all my mistakes, Sorry for posting this perhaps prematurely, but I sometimes feel rushed to keep up with a thread. Ill have to find a better spell check that will let me import/copy files without problems. </p>

<p>Thankfully I can say no to that now. Though I am often still compelled to get the old stuff, without so good reasons, But I am working on it. Sometimes I have good reasons for getting what I want. Though for me it's not the latest and greatest. It's what does the job I want done in the way I like to do it. </p>

<p>Sorry, that's "gain (ANY) ground on". </p>

<p>Barry. English is my first language. The bit you said makes no sense you seems to get ok, though it may be poorly constructed I agree. I construct pictures mostly and writing has never been my strong point. I look at how others paint and draw and construct pictures and find many poor, but I understand it's less socially acceptable to be poor at writing. I still put myself out there and do it. I think frankly, I deserve credit. If you knew how hard it is for me, and how long just writing this takes maybe you would agree.</p>

<p>Back to the points (which i find interesting btw and thanks for the extra info) I did not say it was becuse they felt good about the renege. Though i'm sure some did, I think it more as you confirm to me, the fact they did not get any. Let's face it, people where not outraged because someone who could have been innocent got murdered. <br /> In the UK we used to have public hangings, to exercise this revenge. I understand they where quite popular. It is part of the culture of barbaity that the fame of such things belongs to. Without it they would have little meaning. I don't deny it (was) more significant than picutes that don't show things people are concerned about. But I question the value of it's importance by looking back at what we know now, and hopefully what we have learned.</p>

<p>Hugh. You really don't know me, or the knowledge I do or don't have, or the ammont of respect I have for.......Well anything really. You just can't judge people on a few remarks, Well you can but IMO it's a very limited view. It may help you to put me in a box in order to attack me but I think you'll find it ultimately makes you look bad.<br /> I don't think getting into character bashing is engaging with the points made. If you think i'm disrepectfull your dead wrong. But i totaly disagree this is one of the most important photographes in hisory. This is not something you can really gain and ground on by trying to discredit me. It's a rather lame way to win an argument IMO and you'd do better to take up the points as others have done.<br /> Saying things like "knowbody cares" is again rather sad in my view, who are you speaking for? If knobody does care why did anyone regard any of my points, just to prove me wrong? Just to bash the guy "WE" don't care about, why bother then? Does it make you feel better to put me in my place. If so you have shown what you are about and i'm far happier with me thanks.<br /> If I felt it was important that people have a certain history to comment (or that it's OK to just slag people off) I would play your game. But I don't know who you are and I will retain a certain respect. I really don't feel the need to back myself up with such attacks on my integrity or character.</p>