gsmith

Thanks for the responses. Re: MLU and bulb, I talked with both KEH and Mamiya and

while without looking at it niether can confirm what the problem is, it did sound to the the

technical person @ Mamiya like something was definitely wrong (he speculated that it

could be caused by a release plunger having been too aggressively or repeatedly injected

into the MLU collar on the lens at some point in the past).

There also seems to be a problem with the back (or body) I purchased, which both KEH

and Mamiya are sure is a mechanical issue that needs at the very least adjustment if not

more extensive repair/overhaul. So, the whole system's going back to KEH under their

14-day no hassle return policy (which I'm very glad they have right now). If there was only

one thing wrong, I might consider just exchanging that part, but with multiple issues, I'm

going to go the refund route and re-evaluate (though I'll still likely end up with an RZ at

some point -- it's a great camera). Thanks again for the responses/ideas.

Hi -- I recently picked up an RZ67 PROII used in EX condition from KEH. I'm having some issues and

I'm not sure if it's me just getting used to all the interlocks and 'quirks' (perhaps too strong a word) of

the camera or if there's really something wrong. Seems like a lot of folks bang their head against

mirror lockup in the beginnng, guess it's my turn ;).

I've read numerous threads both here and on the Mamiya user forum about the RZ's mirror lockup

behavior, specifically in conjunction with the 'B' shutter speed setting, but what I'm seeing does not

match any of what I've read. I'm using a single cable release screwed into the lens mlu socket (the

collar is extended and the red line is showing).

When I press the shutter release button on the body, the mirror drops but the shutter is not opened (as

expected). When I press and hold the cable release plunger to open the shutter, it opens but will not

close when I release the plunger. It always waits the ~55 seconds, beeps and then the shutter closes.

So bulb for me is acting like a 55 sec. shutter speed setting.

Removing the cable release from the MLU socket on the lens will not cause the shutter to close during

this time, nor will releasing the body shutter button (if I've kept it held down after firing and opening

the lens' shutter with the cable release) -- both things that, from what I've read, should cause the

shutter to close, no?

One way I can get the shutter to close is by rotating the body's shutter button locking collar from the

normal position (white dots lined up) anywhere to the right (when looking at the camera from the

front), that is, towards the orange dot (mechanical or battery-dead mode). The shutter closes as soon

as the collar is moved off of the position where the white dots are lined up in the direction of the

orange dot.

This method, though I can't find any reference to it anywhere, seems to work (although I haven't gotten

any film back so I can't say for sure), but I'd rather not have to do it for exposures between 8 sec. and

55 sec. since it involves touching the camera which may blur the shot (same goes for using the lens in

'T' mode, which seems to work fine, but also involves touching the camera to close the shutter).

Any ideas on this? I'm about to call KEH and see about a return (everything I bought -- body, 110 f/2.8

W lens, 120 back and an extra insert) was in EX condition, but I'm not sure a) where the problem is or b)

if there's just something basic that I'm overlooking. Thanks for any responses...

Micahel -- this is the more or less the conclusion I've come to. The 28mm f/1.8 on my

20D gives me a perspective about halfway between 35 & 50mm, so I've been using that as

my "normal" lens on this body. With the 50/1.4 providing a short telephoto fl at around

80mm equiv., I think the 85 f/1.8 is probably the next logical step as I would like to be

able to get some tighter closeups than what my 90mm summicron will allow at the

distances I usually work at (plus I'm not confident that I can reliably focus anything longer

than 90mm on a rangefinder especially in low light). And I'm starting to do more promo/

head shots of musicians and at 135mm equiv., this seems like a great portrait lens.

This would also keep my EOS lens set all EF mount which gives me some options in the

future (e.g. 5D or a successor) without needing to sell anything other than the (20D) body.

Time to bring the 20D with me to a show and give it a work out at ISO 1600 and 3200 and

see what I can get at around 1/60th. I'm not too hopeful, but you never know (there's

always Noise Ninja)...

Grant -- I'd be interested to hear what you think of the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS once you get

ahold of it.

I wasn't necessarily thinking about the 5D until some folks here mentioned it :). But, since

I curently own no EF-S lenses, it might be a good idea to stay away from them altogether.

I agree about the 20D's mechanical noise factor, nothing worse than tryiing to capture a

quiet moment and having everyone look at you when releasing the shutter ("clack!"). I

remember picking up a 5D in B&H when they came out and noting that it was a bit quieter,

but not by much. I have no specific issues with the 20D's image quality, so looking at the

5D would be mostly for its full frame capability (lack of conversion factor on lenses) and

more space for cropping.

Thanks for the comments (I think, since I'm now looking at a $2800 camera instead of an

$1100 lens! :). Does anyone have an opinion on whether the 5D is any easier to hold

steady at these shutter speeds/focal length combos than the 20D? Is the mirror swing

dampened in some way (I think I remember reading this somewhere)?

Thanks for the responses. I did a lot of testing with my 20D in low/no light (mostly back

when I got it) and concluded it wasn't suitable with the lenses I have for this type of

photography (obviously it excells at many other types though). I like the 20D's look at ISO

1600 very much (reminds me a bit of the Fuji NP1600 I normally use for this type of work).

I think for the slower moving musicans (e.g. jazz, some quieter pop acts), I might be able

to get away with 1/15th from time to time, and I'm sure the IS would help there. Doesn't

sound like it will be a panacea though. I think I need to wait until I can rent this lens (the

new 17-55 f/2.8 IS) for a show and give a workout and see what I get.

I should add that I think the 28f/1.8 and 50f/1.4 EF lenses that I already have are great

optically, it's just that they seem to need around 1/90th and 1/125th (bare minimum for

me) respectively to shoot consistently shake-free. Consensus seems to be that ISO 3200

on a 5D is no noisier than ISO 1600 on a 20D, so that would buy me a stop of shutter

speed (with my EF lenses anyway). Hmm... lots to ponder. Thanks.

I shoot mostly in low light and mostly music performances (jazz in clubs and pop/rock/

punk bands at small venues). Though I've used various EOS film bodies in the past and

now own a 20D, the tools that have been working the best for me for this type of shooting

are a Leica M6 with Fuji NP1600 B&W film and two main lenses: a 50/1.4 Summilux and

90/2 Summicron (both the latest pre-ASPH versions). I like the combo and think it works

reasonably well for the look and vibe I'm trying to capture. E.g.:

<p></p>

<a href="http://www.geoffsmithphoto.com/" target="_blank">http://

www.geoffsmithphoto.com/</a>

<p></p>

The 50/1.4 I can hand-hold down to 1/30th of a second if I'm braced against something

and haven't had too much coffee that day. Mostly I try to shoot it at 1/60th-1/125th. The

90 (which if I go by the meter seems just about as sensitive as the Summilux at ISO 1600)

I'll go down to 1/60th in a pinch but try to keep it at 1/125th-1/250th most of the time.

This is all wide open. Even at these speeds I'll pick up some camera shake and/or subject

movement resulting in some soft pics. Unavoidable. However, I find that the trade off is

worth it and I just try to shoot as much film as I can at a given show to make up for this. If

I get 3-5 real "keepers" from 3 rolls, I'm pretty happy (1 or 2 of which may end up getting

used by a magazine or, more likely, by the band/artist on their web site).

<p></p>

Now, I also have a 20D that I use more for daytime and color stuff (or when I don't want to

pay for film & processing). I currently have the 17-40 f/4L zoom and 28f/1.8 and 50f/1.4

primes.

<p></p>

I would like to be able to shoot some of the low-light stuff with the 20D when it's a last

minute thing and/or the deadline doesn't allow time for film development, scanning and

post-processing. I find that with the 20D, I need to be at 1/1-2x the 35mm equivalent

focal length in terms of shutter speeds to get acceptably sharp results. Any less than that

and it's a real crap shoot for me (much moreso than with the film rig at the speeds listed

eariler).

<p></p>

My question is: do folks think this new 17-55 f/2.8 IS zoom on a 20D would allow me to

get something like the kind of shots I've been getting with my film rig? I know there are a

lot of variables and semi-intangibles involved, but it seems that if I want to stay in the

1/30th-1/125th range wide open over a range of focal lengths that the IS on this lens

might help me achieve this (except that "wide open" for this lens is 1-2 stops slower than

the lenses I currently use for this). This is assuming that I'll be at ISO 1600 (or even 3200)

on the 20D and will be taking most of the shots to B&W in Photoshop as a post-processing

task.

<p></p>

I'm tempted by this lens, though it's on the pricey side, and would be interested to hear

whether folks think this would be a viable alternative to my "traditional" method. Thanks

for any responses.

Got the roll back, I had it developed "normal," i.e. as if it had been shot at 3200. Definitely

better than my other experiences with this film @ 3200, but as Allan said, very different than

NP1600. More shadow detail (or maybe just more grain, I can't decide) and a much smoother

midtone curve. Thanks for the help all.

Thanks for all the responses. I'll print out the relevant sections from dev. chart and bring it

with me to the lab. Might print out this thread and bring it too! Thanks again.

Hi -- I was shooting a band in a bar the other night and ran out of Fuji Neopan 1600, my

standard film for these types of subjects/venues. I grabbed in the bag for another roll and

wound up using some Illford Delta 3200 that I'd forgotten was in there.

However, I (perhaps mistakenly) left the ISO dial on the camera at 1600, so the roll was

exposed at 1600. I'm not developing myself right now, but I use a good lab that I have a

lot of confidence in (their standard developer is Xtol, but they have a few others available).

I'll certainly ask them what they think, but I was wondering what others would do in this

situation.

I'd like to try and get this roll to match up, as well as can be expected anyway, with the

other stuff I shot on NP1600 rated normally. I know they will look a bit different. What do

you think? 1 stop pull? Slight overdevelopment (for the rated speed)? Thanks for any

responses, I've read a lot of the other Delta 3200 and TMZ threads, but haven't come to

any conrete conclusions (I think this may be a "try some variations and see what you like"

kind of thing). The roll will most likely be scanned and printed digitally if that makes any

difference.