susan stone

I'm back! Brain just made a vaild point, one of which I'm guilty of, on the rare occasion that I decide "today I'm an Art Critic (one who expresses a reasoned opinion on any matter esp. involving its value, righteousness, beauty, or technique....this according to Webster's) and I think I'll bestow my judgemental benevolence on some of my fellow PNer's" I will not bother to rate an image that is really slow to download. I seldom rate an image in a genre I'm not particularly wild about and often as I'm waiting for an image to download I'll slide to the bottom of the page and see who the artist is (am I the only one that does this?) and, sorry to say, there are some folks posting on PN who's work I do not generally like and again I won't rate but pass to the next image. And with that confession made there are always circumstances when an image totally captivates me, no matter the genre or artist, and I will spend some time contemplating what it is about that particular photo that so enamors me to give it a high rating (I don't give 3/3's) or any rating at all. I think there are some very creative and talented photographers posting here on PN but if we were to compare the daily dose of images posted for critique/rating to images produced by the Adams, Westons, Langes, Evans, Modottis (a personal favortie)....you get my drift....of the photography world PN would have to institute a totally new rating system incorporating, probably, a negative number category let alone bring back the 1's and 2's. My point here is: are the 3/3 raters comparing the work to the "greats", do they just not like the genre, are they bored to tears, maybe they're in a hurry to go get their Starbucks, or is it possible that someone's pissed off about a low rating on their latest "cute poodle" shot and they're seeking revenge, and of course there's that horrible reality, that none of us want to admit, that an image truly is a 3/3 but compared to what? Well I guess that's several points. And there's always that individaul that wants to wreck havoc in a given situation just because he can.....it's a challenge I suppose. Whew, got that out of my system. Thank you one and all for making this an honest and noteworthy discussion about ratings. "Confession is good for the soul."

Walter Tatulinski (who by the way is a master craftsman when it comes to the composition and exposure of a landscape) said something that has stuck in my "fried brain" for the last 20 hours, "....a truly good photograph will transcend our differences and communicate on a universal level", I think he hit the nail on the head and with that thought in mind I now have to agree with Tim Holte that my image was deserving of the 3/3's that were so rapidly planted there. What a light bulb moment for me! Thanks everybody for the learning experience.

"other end of the spectrum".... my brain is fried.

Well I'm back in from swathing hay and am pleased to see some further discourse on the subject of ratings. Aside from my dismay at the speed of the 3/3's bestowed upon my image I have to confess that I like the rating system the way it is, in fact I'd like to see the 1's and 2's returned and the TRP placements to continue to be shuffled into existence by anonymous raters; and furthermore I don't think it's neccessary for one to defend their opinion (positively or negatively) with explanations pursuant to their perceptions of what's good/bad in anothers photography. But I do wonder who these people are that are arbitrarily rating our images and allowing the "cream to rise to the top", what makes the anonymous rater an Art Critic who's opinion should be valued and/or sought after in hopes of them not only bestowing a rating high enough to place us in the top of the TRP but also to enlighten us when the rating is low. I think the real crux of the matter of unfair rating is that some people DO USE and manipulate the system for less than ulterior motives, I think it's a common manifestation of the human race that when we feel slighted we in turn want to "seek revenge", and when encouraged and uplifted we tend to be altruistic and want to reciprocate. Part of the frustration, I think, is that there's not a damn thing we can do about the inequity of an anonymous rating system, we just have to leave it up to the "head honchos" to use their discretionary good will to right a wrong as they see fit. When I view the first 20 or so images in the TRP I personally think about 80% of them are there justifiably so, but how some of them made it into the upper echelon of viewer status is beyond my artistic comprehension. And something else that I think we need to consider (this is where our egos might creep in) is that just because someone sticks a 7/7 on one of our images we're not a budding Ansel Adams and shouldn't get in a hurry to quit our job at Microsoft in hopes of making our fortunes snaping pictures, and at the other end of the perspective if we do get one of those dreadful 3/3's (used to be 1/1's) it doesn't mean that someone won't discover just how wonderful that oversaturated sunset is and offer you big bucks for it. So thank you everyone for your feedback, honest opinions, book recommendations, caustic wit, time spent humoring me, and for sharing nicely. Adios muchachos.

Being a woman I have to get in the last word....again.....please go to my personal posting history and view the images "rated highest by this member" and you'll see many of the photographers I aspire too, Tim Holte is even there! These photographers and their imagery inspire and impress me to try and do better, gracias. My fingers are wore out, good night.

I must say I'm impressed with the thought that went into everyones insightful comments and I think it just goes to show that we all view "Art" with our hearts, minds and souls and derive an interpretation of what we see as good, bad, or indifferent through those perspectives. A farmer's going to love a shot with a silo, dog lovers drool over cute puppies, a gardener will always be swayed by a beautiful flower, and I'm a sucker for the color red and cows and horses and then throw in folks from Countries all over the world and their choices in what they like and don't like can certainly be influenced by cultural biases and preferences. "Variety is the spice of life"! There are some fabulous photographers here on PN and occassionally one of us amateurs comes up with a stunning shot, so lets all learn and share with one another with open minds. "Ya all done good.......no mud slinging......gracias."

Now we're getting somewhere, I'm well aware of the "ho-hum, it's just another sunset shot", and of course "my kid is cuter than your kid", and I'm guilty of that. I got carried away by the moment as the storm was passing through and ran around shooting (hand held of course) the clouds because they were so full of fire from the sunset and impending storm (actually the color is not saturated a lot) that I became a little over zealous about what I had potentially captured that I could hardly wait to share my endeavors (whew, what a windy broad). Looking at the image now, with everyone's erstwhile feedback I see the distraction of the power lines and the lack of an interesting foreground and yes it could be sharper. But I found the silhouette of the silo and the storm clouds to be recordable as an interesting part of my lifestyle (that's mostly what I shoot). The moment was fleeting but I think upon reflection I to would slap some 4/4's on it but still, sorry to disagree Tim, it's not a 3/3 when compared to some of the other compositions that are offered up on the daily critique platter. Could I have cropped some of the elements out? Edited out the power lines? Photoshopped in some interesting foreground "Spaceship"? Yes Yes Yes but then it would not have been an honest record of the moment as seen by me. Oh my gosh but I can ramble when it's 102 degrees out and too damn hot to go water my lawn. Gracias everyone for the help and doze of humiliation, when the next storm blows through I'll try to do better. In the mean time I think I'll go dump some 6/6's and even some 7/7's on some deserving photos to counter balance all those 3/3's everyone, including me apparently, complains about. Even if I disagree I appreciate the honesty. Whine whine whine........

Thank you Charles, I actually don't mind the 3/3's, it was just that it was sooooo fast and I realize that literally hundreds of people from all over the world can be viewing/rating the image at the same time so the 3's could really pile up fast, and as you said it can happen within seconds........how can anyone make an honest judgement that fast?! And you're right, JUST IGNORE THE RATINGS AND CONTINUE TO ENJOY PN. GRACIAS

I JUST posted a photo and literally within minutes it had two 3/3's, would

someone truthfully tell me what's wrong with the composition "The Calm Before

The Storm"?! I know I got carried away with the saturation button. I thought

I was well beyond caring about the rating system, I generally just have a good

time here on PN and pretty much ignore how my images rate, I enjoy

communicating with people about their photos and appreciate any comments on

mine, it is, afterall, just a game we're all playing and at times a very

helpful one, personally a good honest critique has been very helpful in my

developing better skills. (How's that for a long boring sentence?). But two

3/3's in a matter of minutes?! Hummmm.......let the fun begin.<div></div>

This is my first attempt at No Words.<div></div>

I purchased the lens in October 2005, I must of spoke to 6 different people/departments before I got some answers. I asked outright if it was possible to get a refund on the lens and was told yes, I've received my shipping label and was told a refund based on my receipt would be forth coming. And yes, Bob is right, the lens will probably be repaired and will service one well for years but for me personally I think I'd always be a little concerned about it's performance (not that I'm some big technical and proficient photographer), and I've decided to use the opportunity, based on the refund, to upgrade to an "L" lens.

YES, Canon will refund your money on this lens, you need the receipt from when you purchased it, and you can request a shipping label. Here's who I contacted......Mike 1 866 886-1901 ext. 2191, Mike told me that a lot of people are opting for the refund, I am as I think in the future I would always be worried about the lens being faulty.

I was sure surprised to find this problem discussed here on PN, it was the first time I've heard of there being a problem with this lens and of course I have the lens and the third number in my serial number is a 0. I just got off the phone talking to a rep at Canon and they, as of yet, don't have a solution. They will refund your money on this lens if you choose. I'm sending mine back.

I'm so glad you ask that question Neil because I too didn't have a clue what the additional punctuation marks in people's comments meant, I just thought it was keyboard malfunctions!#((><**..$ oops.

I are a cowperson! Well actually I'm a ranchhand and in Western lingo I "punch cows" for a living, now that should cause some confusion, I'm sure there will be some folks with visions of me hitting cows and they'll be ready to sic the humane society on me........but really, I agree with Wade, we could use a few more categories and I've tried on several occassions to request a Western theme one for those of us taking pictures of Rodeos, Ranch activities, horse shows, etc., and I've never gotten a response from the head honchos. Now one for chocolate maybe going a little too far.....

Mr. Warren, I appreciate your thought provoking and well articulated comments but I'm constantly reminded, when I view images here on PN, that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" and "variety is the spice of life", corny cliches maybe but I think there's a lot of truth to them. There are a lot of stunning images posted here on PN and yes, there are some really mediocre ones as well, but I think this will always be the case, as in any Art form. I think of the Rating system here on PN as a competitive game, one not to be taken too seriously (but it often does lead to some heated discussions), it's just far to arbitrary of a process with many varibles for it to weed out the "BEST" of the photos every time. Sometimes the worst images inspire me the most, they make me take a critical look at what I'm posting, and I think, as most things in life, we're the ones that are responsible for motivating and challenging ourselves to seek a clearer "vision", be it a creative one or the life we choose to lead. I'm not disagreeing with your comments, merely responding and putting in my 2 cents worth. And I'd really appreciate it if you'd post some of your photography here on PN, I'm curious now what genre, style, and techinques you prefer and compose. Gracias Susan

Not resilient?! I'd say they're very tolerant, flexible, fair, reflective, congenial, helpful, passionate, kind, long suffering, under appreciated, loyal, and the list could go on to what they allow to be posted and or that they choose to delete here on PN. They didn't delete THIS post did they John?! Enough said.

It took me a half an hour, time flys when you're having fun.

Whew! Ben S., it took me an hour to find and comment on 5 images and I'm a fast typer......now I'll have to follow up on my comments, this is going to be quite a commitment on all our parts and I don't want to neglect my "friends" portfolios either so I'd better "put the pedal to the metal" and make these keys burn....how fun.

OK, I'll make an effort to be more responsive here on PN but not until next week, I'm taking a week long class on editing with Photoshop, much needed by the way. It does take time to leave a few commments each time we visit this fun site. I seldom offer a suggestion on how to improve an image because I'm such an amateur myself but I really enjoy communicating with people I feel are friends so sometimes my comments sound more like daily chit-chat and atta boys. So now I'd better get busy and go find some new creative photographers and some old friends and take a peek at their recent posts before I leave for Missoula. Thanks Ben for the great idea.

Yup, my LCD and menu on my 20D work on both positions also! Seems to not be a problem.

While I was typing my heart felt thanks two more helpful PNer's chimed in so thanks go too Ted and Miguel also.....Miguel I also read Keith's bio and it's out the door for me to go try and "shoot" something.

Just got back from feeding the cows and found 8 pages of responses to my question so thanks Henrik, David, Richard, Steve, and whew.....Keith, and yes NK I also got lost way back but have printed out all the info and will read and reread it and continue to study color management. Everyones support is what makes this site so interesting and fun for me. Gracias!

I've been trying to understand color management with my camera and

Epson R1800 printer and am confused about the difference between

sRGB and RGB. I like saturated colors and sharp focus, I use

Elements 3 for editing and am a real novice at post processing.

Kyle, I have both of the lenses you're inquiring about and don't have a single complaint about either. They're my only lenses and so far have met all my needs. Before I bought these lenses I read a lot of articles about their performance and tests and then I went through the top photos here on PN and looked at any that were taken with the Canon 20D (my camera also) and the two lenses you've mentioned.