timeforpictures

<p>We do 20% but it's a tight market here and we build some of it back into the price.</p>

Depending on the type of photography you are doing (I'm assuming sports), DotPhoto.com is an excellent choice for selling your images over the web. I've been using them for around 5 years (?) and I've never had a problem. Just from looking at Studio Cart, the costs are really high. Now I do admit, they have a more professional look, but I've never had a problem with DotPhoto. Just a suggestion...

I can't imagine you selling a large quantity of $50 prints at any of the events that I work. Once again, I work under the premise that I'm recording memories for the families of the players. I work strickly on volume. $5 may seem like a lot to charge for a single 4x6 print but it's really not (considering the cost of our equipment and insurance). To some it may seem like I'm not charging enough (for those same reasons). I'm trying to find a happy medium that will benefit me and make it affordable enough that the parents can enjoy several of the hundreds of shots I might make in a single day. It seems to work. We sell hundreds of photos in a single day and I've become friends with many of my customers. They know me by name when they see me at events. I believe we have to overcome the image of the wolf "preying" on the families of these players. We may be professionals, but they are not.

Let us know how it goes for you...

I saw the price you quoted for the 70-200mm f2.8. I would suggest looking at the Sigma. The model for the Canon EOS cameras was $839. Here's a link for B&H... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=384931&is=USA&addedTroughType=search

 

The lens is well worth the money.

I've seen this issue a lot on these forums. I guess it's such a common practice in my area (Alabama) that I haven't thought too much about it. Now having said that, you should always get the league aproval since you are shooting on their fields. By getting this approval, you may also get approval to shoot on the sidelines (I've been doing this for years). Your shots will be better and the parents will like them more. I would also suggest selling your photos at the park if possible. I have a large computer setup, but you can do it by just printing off large thumbnails and taking orders. I do this and pay a commission to the park or organization for access to the fields (expect to be placed in a "media area" but not always). I think by getting written permission from the league/organization you take some of the liability off of you.

I've been shooting youth sports for around 5 years. Started out shooting my daughter. Then started shooting others as well. I now shoot at mainly travel tournaments where the tournament director engages me to shoot the tournament. I sell and the organization hosting the tournament gets a commission from my sales. I show my photos using a computer setup and take orders at the tournament.

 

I also do the League photos where we sale packages, trading cards, etc.

 

I enjoy doing the action photos more, but the money is in the league stuff. Of course that's where the competition is too.

 

At tournaments, the images that sell are varied... we've sold everything from great action, shots of kids in the dugout watching to wild shots of kids doing cartwheels in the outfield and blowing spit-bubbles! I just about always will take pictures of the scoreboard (especially championship games) because invariably I'll sell a couple to people wanting to remember that final score. Since I take orders, I'm out nothing unless they want to buy...

you absolutely must have f2.8. Sigma has a 70-200 2.8 that's real reasonable. They also have a 120-300mm that'll go around $2K. Also try to position yourself where you get more "head on" shots. You'll get less blur and more face shots that way.

Canon's 20D is a great camera. You can get the body, a 500mb CF Card and the Sigma 70-200mm EX lens for $2189 at B&H Photo. Check prices at Adorama, they are usually close but sometimes a little less. The 20D takes great pics in low light. Less noise at 1600 ISO and to me the noise at 3200 ISO is the same or close to the old 10D at 1600.

http://www.DotPhoto.com

Hey Richard, LOL I'm pretty much still a "rookie" myself. Especially if you see the ratings some of my shots get! I don't print on site for several reasons; equipment cost, print costs, time, quality. I only use one person at my table to help customers find their games and to take orders. If I was printing on site, I'd have to have more labor. My customers have never had a problem with the way we fill orders, so as long as they're happy... Also, I don't use laptops because of screen quality. I use small form factor desktops (small and compact) and I currently use NEC LCD monitors because they give me excellent quality even in sunlight. That's important in outdoor events where the sun glares on your screen.

 

Bidding on League Photography is tough. There's always someone who will outbid you. I find that I build relationships with leagues when I do there tournaments. They know I'll pay the entire commission (not skimming the revenue figure) and they know the quality they receive. I think it's easier to get the bids when I'm working with them already. I currently pay 10% of revenues and then I offer other "perks". Free team prints for their sponsorship plaques. I built and maintain the website for one league. Sometime I'll come and shoot action shots of a few games just to put on their website (low res) at no charge. Just a few things that you can offer them other than $$$. Use your imagination and think of perks that you can offer them that maybe the "big" guys won't.

 

Don't discount the smaller leagues either. They don't take a lot of time, the margin is still high, and the competition is not as strong. Some of the big outfits won't try for those because of their small size.

 

With action photography, and just a few leagues it's pretty easy to do $30-$40k in sales as a "part-time" business, depending on the time you want to put into it. Makes funding your "hobby" a lot easier. My wife doesn't fuss at me about the money I'm spending like she use to. :-)

Your camera probably came with Zoom Browser. This program will enable you to create a new folder (I use a different folder name for each game) and image number with a prefix (ex. MD01-0001 The prefix MD01- is game 01 of the Memorial Day tourney the next 4 digits are sequential). I do a download for each game so the prefix tells me the game number and tournament of every image.

 

Not sure if I explained that one well, but you can email me if you have questions. By the way, Zoom Browser also flips the images for you...

I started like you doing exclusively action photos of tournaments.

 

A couple of years agon, I started doing Youth Sport pictures (team/individuals) because of the profit margin and the volume. The margins are high and with a league of around 200 in can do about $4k in revenue. I started shooting outdoor sports such as softball, baseball, soccer, etc because I needed less equipment. Individuals and teams are shot outside on good days (with a rainout day set in case of bad weather). You need a good fill flash, an assistant and I use a eazy-up to help block sun.

 

As I got more leagues and worked a while, I've been able to increase the equipment and lights.

 

I don't have a partner, but I hire other independent photographers to work fields for me on larger tournaments. I like to cover every game of a tournament so I figure on 1 photographer for every 2 fields.

There are travel ball leagues such as NSA (Nat'l Softball Association), ASA (American Softball Assc.), BPA, and I'm sure a lot more... These leagues usally have State Associations (Alabama NSA) and have websites that list their tournaments. You can go to the tournament and they'll have contact info for the tournament. Contact the tournament director and explain exactly how you plan on photographing and selling. I always require field access (sidelines) and offer a commission to have exclusive rights to the field. We make an effort to cover all games on the day we work (1 photographer per 2 fields in softball/baseball) We sell at the tournament and give commission only on tournament day sales which usually will be significant enough for the director. I personally only work pool play which in touraments here are 3 games per team. That gives me Sunday's off with my family. Once you work a few, the tournament directors will get to know you because the director of one tournament will be coaching a team playing in another tournament. Several directors will see you at a tournament. A good setup will have them booking you for their tournament while you are working a tournament. Make sure you have a calendar with you to let them know if you are free. Good Luck!

I pay commission on almost all events whether it be action photography or youth sports league photos. I have heard up to 20%. I personally only pay 10% and explain the cost of my setup and labor (for action events). NOW I do offer other compensation for leagues. I do websites as well and for large leagues may offer webserves as additional compensation. Usually I just offer a very small package. Basic website with annual updates. Usually there will be where pages they can update on there own, such as a news page and links to photoalbums they can upload there own images to. I also put their team pictures online with their team rosters if they request it. This has little to no cost to me. I use standard templates to reduce my own labor. It really helps to build customers and retain them.

Wish I could be there to work that one with you! I agree with you that many things make a photo special. I've said this many times that the purpose of Youth Sports Photography is to preserve memories. A photograph of the final score in a big game (not necessarily THE big game, but one that a player has really excelled in), a great play, a photo of the player cheering on his/her teammates, two buddies hugging, ... All of these make up the memories of the parent and the child. I've even taken pictures of a girl napping between games. My wife did the mother's scrapbook for her and that picture was among the ones that she turned in to be in the scrapbook.

 

I hope you build your own memories of this tournament and I'll be watching! Send me an email and tell me about how it goes!

One thing we should all remember is not to "just show up". In my case, when I work a tournament I have exclusive rights to shoot on the field. I pay for this with the commission that I pay the tournament director. I've had to have photographers removed from the parks because they thought they could just walk out onto the field and start shooting. Parents try to do that to, and because of liability reasons and of course because this is a sports tournament, they can't be allowed to either. What I usually try to do for some of them is to take their camera and shoot a couple of shots for them. They are really appreciative and some have turned out to be my best customers.

 

I think in this type of photography we have to remember ethics and courtesy. Remember to book engagements, not show up to shoot. If you are an independent photographer that has been hired to shoot a team or individual and find someone else has rights to the tournament, talk to that photographer. You may have work out an arrangement. Advertise to your customers, don't try to direct sale to them. If you can get them to see your work, it should talk for itself. If you can't setup viewing stations to let people see your work, bring a single laptop and printer. Print off contact sheets and create game albums. Then take orders. And last of all, always remember that these are just kids. We're here to preserve memories and if we preserve bad ones by the way we act, it won't be long before we're not doing this anymore.

 

By the way, let's all play nice. We may differ in opinion, but we're all trying to learn. Name calling doesn't help any of us.

I don't sell a majority of my photos online. Most of mine I sell at the event by showing them on a network of 5-7 computers then taking orders (I fill the orders and mail within 2 weeks). I do sell online but the volume is MUCH lower. I feel showing them within 5 minutes of the game keeps the excitement going. Lots of the girls come over to see the pictures. Of course not all buy, but the players and the parents love coming over to see the pictures.

 

Selling the way we do, there's not a lot of time to go through the pictures to clean them up. I do try to clean them up some before filling the orders. I'll crop in on outfielders, sharpen images, lighten them up, etc.

 

Thanks for all the input!

LOL ! I guess when it gets down to it, that's what we're out there to do is sell the pictures otherwise we wouldn't be spending 15 hours on a softball (or soccer, baseball, etc) field.

I'm interested in what others think. I've shot Youth Sports Action

Photography now for around 5 years. This is now the main portion of

my part-time photography business.

 

WHAT do you as photographers (and many as parents) think makes a

youth action photo "great". Is it the show of action? The

lighting? Intensity? or something else?

 

Thanks for any input! Just a question to get something going here :)

I have not tried setting the white balance with a grey card before but after reading up some yesterday will try it on my next event where I'm shooting inside a gym or arena. Shooting Basketball events for high schools I sometimes have found that I have problems and this may be the solution.

One problem with the Sigma 120-300 f2.8 is the coating on the lens tends to peel off. Otherwise the Sigma lens is a GREAT lens. 3 of the photographers I use with my business have them and 1 also has the 70-200mm. It's a good lens for the price.

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. Do you have a problem with Youth Sports Photography, Action Photography at youth sports events, or the way Erin described trying to market the photos?

 

I have had 2 girls playing softball for the last 5 years (spring and fall) and have never had a problem with anyone selling pictures at the event. They don't come "pimping" their pictures. They usually are set up at booths where I go to THEM.

 

In the last 3 years I have conducted business in a simular manner. I set up a booth and the parents come to me to see "memories" of their children. I put up signs letting the parent know I'm there and I don't try to drag them to my computers. Usually I have parents and tournament directors asking me to work their events.

 

I would just like to know what your problem is with this venture. Is it not "artistic" enough. I know for me it pays for equipment and allows for vacations and scholorship funds for 3 girls.

I agree with above, Servo is definitely good for subjects that are moving in/out of your focus range, even slighly if you are shooing f2.8. Definely stay off the auto settings. I never shoot under 1/125 and even that will give you poor images if the subject moves quickly such as a softball, bat, or the arm of a player throwing. 250 is a lot better.

We use a 70-200mm f2.8. But we are using Canon's 20D which gives us a lot better picture even as high as 1600ISO. This allows a faster shutter speed and decreases blur. I'm not sure that the rebel will give that quality pic at 1600ISO. My 10D (which I believe has the same sensor) did fairly well at 800ISO. Might want to try. Also when we are shooting Softball in low light conditions, I limit shots to ones I believe will not likely blur such as plays moving toward me instead of across. This takes some thought in where you set up. In sports such as basketball there are instances in plays where movement hesitates (the peak of a jump shot) that make good shots. I think you have to work with a combination of shot selection and hopefully increasing the ISO will help.