doris_chan

For Cornelius:

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005219

Some things just never change.

Dr Albert:"gypsies tried to attack my wife and me near the Louvre at around 4PM. This was

very traumatic for my wife. I held off three of the more aggressive pursuers for a few

minutes and was lucky that the CRS (special french police) happened to be nearby. The

three gypsies were arrested, we pressed charges and they were subsequently convicted of

assault with a DEADLY weapon (two knives). My tripod saved us"

Interesting, this seems to contradict what you said on the earlier thread regarding the

attitiude of the French police:"The police, in France at least, are so inured to these gangs

and the inability of French

justice to either lock them up for assault or larceny, or deport them, THAT they simply

look the other way. Therefore, the gangs are more brazen. I have even been attacked

during the summer days in front of the Louvre in front of policemen who are less than

helpful." The same incident (at the time you said they were children)? Or do you find

yourself coming unter repeated attacks from

gypsies in Europe? I'll let others draw their own conclusions as to the veracity of your

postings.

"As to Elliot Rosen, I have met him and WE are both physicians who help people everyday"

Are we supposed to grant you and Eliot respect merely because you make a living as

physicians? I prefer to judge individuals on their demeanour and comments rather than

their profession. I'd rather spend time with a decent gypsy than a bigoted and abusive

physician.

Eliot:"Albert is a physician/gastroenterologist"

Perhaps he can help you with your seeming surplus of bile.

"he helps people"

Unless they're gypsy "wretches" (or are they not classed as people?).

"he doesn't hide behind phony names"

I have no idea who on this forum is using their real name. How can you be so sure that my

name isn't Doris Chan? It's no stranger than "Eliot Rosen" or "Albert Knapp MD".

Dr Albert:"I am amazed at your carrying on and your puerile ad hominem attacks"

Albert you're not in a position to lecture anybody on puerility. What could be more childish

than your boasting and your fantasies of beating unfortunate children?

"I am quite confident that you have never been attacked by a band of gypsies"

You're right, I haven't, but it doesn't automatically follow that I haven't spent time in the

company of Roma or other economically disadvantaged people.

"I have and thank G-d I had my tripod to ward them off"

I really hope that this is just fantasy and that you haven't actually beaten Roma children.

"When YOU are walking alone in Europe and a group of gypsies or anyone else for that

matter starts to surround you, I hope that you will have a tripod handy"

Albert, I've walked alone in Europe, North America, Asia, pretty much anywhere in the

world you can imagine. I've never had any real problems (other than from militias, both

official and unofficial) that a bit of common sense and courtesy haven't dealt with. That

doesn't mean I've never felt threatened, it's just a fact of life that the unknown can be

threatening. Having said that, your earlier descriptions of the mean streets of

central Paris just don't ring true - I can't imagine that many Parisians would recognise the

city that

you describe.

"If not, why don't you simply pontificate and explain to those people that Doris Chan (or

whoever you really are) feels their pain and is on THEIR side"

Well, that sounds a lot smarter course of action than splitting their skulls with a tripod. If

your descriptions of beating children in Europe aren't fantasies (fortunately I suspect that

they are) then, sooner or later, you're going to see the true intimidatory side of Europe -

the inside of a prison cell.

"It is not too late to grow up, Doris!"

If that means adopting the attitudes of you and Eliot then I'm happy to remain a child.

ps Eliot, I'd hate you to imagine that I'm less than respectful towards you simply because

you're a full on right-winger. I find dull, unimaginative left-wingers just as irksome as you.

"There you go Doris! There's no arguing against a statement like that, is there?"

Paul, I'm convinced, disregard anything I've ever said about digital in the past. It's cool,

reasoned arguments like Ben's that keep me coming back to this forum.

"As far as values, I'll take Alberts and day over yours"

Eliot, again thank you for the reassurance - if you did approve of me it would be time for a

long cleansing shower. For once why not cut out the abuse and deal with some facts? As

for my "silliness" (though I doubt too many others agree with your assessment), I'll take

that any day in preference to the faux-gravity and manufactured

outrage of both you and the boastful Dr Death.

Paul:"if you're a photo editor or editor you're the only one I know who finds it quicker to

edit on digital"

Well Paul, I'm not a photo editor, but I know a lot of people who are.....

I think a lot depends on the type of magazine you work on. If you mainly deal in

portraiture then working with medium format and 5x4 transparencies is probably more

convenient/faster than working with digital files. On the other hand, if you've assigned a

photographer on a three week reportage story and he/she presents you with a first edit of

250 images then working through this via a browser is a good way of getting an overview

before the next stage of the edit. Most editors I know begin with the browser, make a

second tighter edit, make rough proof prints from the second edit, and then make a final

edit (with art director and magazine editor) from the proof prints. I don't know many

photo editors who dislike digital, but then I don't many editors who dislike film either.....

Eliot: "I disapprove of you and Doris polluting threads on Leica photography with your

phony self-righteousness crap"

Thanks Eliot for putting my mind at rest, I'd be deeply concerned if I had your approval.

Dr Albert: "I never advocated hitting/beating/killing children..."

Now, now Albert, cut out the revisionism. Of course you advocated "hitting", "beating",

and, potentially, "killing" children (surely a man as well qualified as you understands the

possible implications of striking a child on the head with a tripod). The quote I gave is in

the archives, are you disputing it? It's from one of the many tedious "Leica as weapon"

threads where middle-aged doctors, bankers and ad execs indulge their pathetic street

fighting fantasies. Maybe next time you lash out a "wretch" you'll end up in a beautifully

scenic Europrison - if you do then you may find your fear of contracting hepatitis or HIV

moving

rapidly from fantasy to reality......

It's a really disturbing irony that some of the most moving images ever made with Leica

cameras are of Europe's Roma communities, but to the urbane Dr Knapp the very same

people represent nothing more than an ugly threat to be beaten out of his path. For those

of a more enlightened viewpoint than Dr Knapp I'd encourage you to search for the work

of Josef Koudelka, Ljalja Kuznetsova (who was awarded the Leica Medal of Excellence), and

Marketa Luskacova.

Oh yeah, one more thing. I'm going for a drive this weekend and I'm just not sure which of

my many cars to drive. Should I take the Ferrari, the Lamborghini, or the tried and tested

Bentley?????????

Jorn: "Ach, more gypsy bashing. I will warrant that the majority of the crime in Russia is

not perpetrated by gypsies"

I couldn't agree more with you. My comment was actually a reference to an earlier post

from Dr Knapp where he described his adventures in Europe: "have used my tripod on

several occasions in Europe as a defense weapon against

gypsies. They send the children, literaaly like a pack of locust to harass their "prey"....A

tripod, with the ball swinging works wonders. In my experience, the tripod doesn't scare

them. It is only when you actually hit one of these wretches that the rest realize that you

are serious....the swinging tripod works wonders.....With my RF, I guess that I would punch

and kick....BTW, should you ever draw blood, make sure you clean the area or camera/

tripod IMMEDIATELY with water followed by alcohol...Hepatitis C and HIV contamination

remain remote possibilities, so see or call your physician at that point"

Possibly the most offensive post ever made on this forum.

"The higher cost to achieve this level of performance may in part explain their higher

price."

Or they may simply view the typical Leica M user as being more credulous than the

average bear.

I've just offered Frank $1000 for his remaining new Electro, but he's holding out for more.

It's a real sellers market right now. Strange, very strange.......

"looked me up in the local phone book"

Are you listed under f for Frank or s for Strange?

"600 Bucks richer. There you have it. Strange"

Frank, you're the Sultan of Strange.

Paul:"Doris, if there are a few people here posting crummy pix with expensive camera,

what's the harm?"

I don't think there is any harm, which I actually said in response to Brad's comments. I also

never attack people just for posting bad pictures, that's more Jeff and grant's turf -

one of the first times I posted here it was to actually rescue somebody on the wrong end

of a tag team bullying session courtesy of J and g. If I mildly challenge somebody it's in

response to them spouting actual misinformation - the Kaptain falls firmly into this

category. Al says strange things about a medium - digital - that he doesn't understand

and in turn provokes strange threads like this one. Half of the people here reward him for

his attacks on digital (by massively overpraising his images) and the other half punish him

(by being overcritical of his images).

"I miss threads like the ones you used to post, turning us on to interesting photographers"

Sadly, the tumbleweed blows through posts like that. People really would rather talk about

Baldigi lizard skin cases and the pros and cons of black or chrome. Rene found this out to

his cost when he began his threads linking to images at Magnum, very few people posted

and most of those that did only did so to ridicule the work of photographers who were

foolish enough to disregard the rule of thirds. Anyway Paul, check out this link and let me

know what you think:

http://www.magnumphotos.com/c/htm/FramerT_MAG.aspx?

Stat=Portfolio_DocThumb&V=CDocT&E=2TYRYDAEYHMT&DT=ALB

He's one of the very few genuinely original photographers to become a nominee in recent

years.

"I suppose recent events mean that we will end up with two boring forums, rather than one

diverse, often intriguing one"

I guess one persons intrigue is anothers tedium......

Paul, as you don't have an Aeron chair I'm going to have to view you in a totally different

light. Anyway, they're getting a bit passe now. In the late 90s my girlfriend took a position

in London and was genuinely horrified by the no-brand chair in her office. After a

crisis meeting she went straight out and put an Aeron on her company AmEx card, within

48 hours the art director was threatening (in a coke fuelled rage) to resign if he wasn't also

granted an Aeron, within six weeks every individual office had one, and by the time she

moved on even the open-plan slaves all had them. Y'know, they just don't feel as

comfortable

when the interns are sitting on them as well......

Thanks BD. It's Issey Miyake, expensive but worth it - like our Leicas, but totally unlike

Pinky's cheap plastic digicams.

Brad: "That's the sad thing, nobody cares"

Well, it's kinda curious but I'm not sure that it's actually sad. You should just stop banging

your head against a brick wall and let the people here live out their strange fantasies of

photographic supremacy - they're not actually harming anybody. Failing that, if you want

to fit in here maybe you could sign up for one of Raid's photo classes in Japan, I'm sure

you'll end up seeing things in a whole different light once the professor's shared his

wisdom with you. Personally, I love Leicaland, a place where in return for the modest price

of admission (an a la carte MP?) we can all be a photo genius and put those digiclowns in

their place. Love, peace and Leicas, Doris.

Sadly, the fact that this M3 was owned by Val Wilmer is unlikely to add a cent/penny to it's

value. Almost by definition camera collectors have little interest in photography/

photographers, so in order for a previous owner to confer "added value" they'd need to be

an outright celebrity in the league of HCB or Avedon. While we're on the subject of helping

worthy photographers, why not pop over to this thread:?

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Bfey

Any high flying publishing exec, like yourself Paul, needs some credible art on the walls of

his office - you can have a Jeff Jacobson print for less than the cost of the Aeron chair

that you're sitting on.......

Trevor, for an even more organic approach to wall decoration I can also recommend the

tried and tested H-Block technique that was so popular in the early eighties. I know that

many

traditionalists still prefer this method to charcoal.

Thank you Trevor, I aim to please. I'll have to be careful though, my cousin Boris was

recently banned from this very forum for being wilfully witty.......

This post really resonates with my own personal experience. Like many others I tried

digital but I realised almost immediately that it was an inherently fake medium. I quickly

reverted to my trusty Leica M3 and 50mm Summicron, but again I sensed something was

wrong. I'm currently keeping it real scrawling sabre toothed tigers and wooly mammoths

on the

walls of my cave with charcoal sticks.

"i am disagreeing with what i see as a "puritanical" approach"

Claudia your no digi input stance is pretty puritanical in itself. Live a little dangerously,

experience the joys of RAW. You might just like it.