kosmoskatten

Well, sooner than I thought;

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/epson9700.html

Supposedly it is the 2400 that is to replace the 2100/2200.

Looks uglier than the 2200 but the tweaks are probably right on the money.

I just bought a second hand Epson 2200 with Imageprint RIP so I'll be fine for a while ;-) though it's the same old story: fret over buying a printer for long enough and the successor is just around the corner.

ELLIOT:

No, not as far as I could make out, no gloss optimizer.

It seems like they are carving into that niche of Fine Art / Matte printing with the 2200 / successor. Unfortunately there seems to be a problem getting it all right with them inks / papers on both matte and glossy if longevity of prints is to be factored in. One could wish for a perfect printer but it seems like we're in for a long wait.

JOHN KELLY:

Umm... If there IS a rumour on a new 4000 Epson as well it would make sense - a medium grey cartridge in that one as well and they would be upgrading both the 2200 and 4000 at the same time and in the same way.

You might be on to something there. I am in no position to be pressing my contact on vital information at the moment but if I hear anything substantial from him I could pass it along, in a very general way ;-).

JOHN KELLY:

I haven't heard that specific model number, 2208, which sounds odd indeed. The person who told me actually WORKS at Epson, with insight in the R&D of inkjet printers. Not one of those "I heard it from someone who heard it from someone who..."

Still, there is no guarantee that it will surface exactly as he mentioned it, though he has been right on the money about the last three/four generations of Epson printers, including the recent R1800 which I had known about for ages. It has been funny reading about all the misconceptions and false info on the R1800 on the internet and at that time I didn't want to chime in. It might have been a mistake posting the info on the 2200 successor here, at the rumour mill HQ ;-) but there you have it - just wanted to share something. I don't expect anyone to believe me any more than he would the next guy, we'll just have to wait and see - won't we?

I myself will be picking up a second hand 2200 next week - it'll do me just fine ;-).

BEAU:

Nah, that's not the one!

I do know about the R1800. It doesn't have light black, or the coming medium grey, and the R1800 won't print as well on matte papers / canvas (does it even do canvas) or Fine Art paper as the 2200 already does.

I am talking about the NEW 2200, not the A3 version of the R800...

Hi all,

apparently there is a successor to the Epson 2200 in the works at

Epson. It will sport one more cartridge, medium grey, which apparently

will give smoother transitions in B&W printing. It is probably

released this fall if all goes as to plan. At least they will be done

by then.

Yes, you can diss this information all you likes and you should take

it with a pinch of salt, they may change some along the way.

I can't reveal my source but that person is an insider ;-).

Ok, guys, sounds reassuring.

I think she has only used Epson's ink so it should be sweet then.

Thats a load off my mind then - thanks a lot ;-).

Hi all,

I'll be picking up a second hand 2200 printer with some extras come

next thursday. It is still under warranty and is supposedly as new.

However the owner told me it has been closet camping for a few months...

...is this cause for concern? We have agreed that I may return the

printer if I can't get the juices flowing from it so I am not in a

real risk.

Still, I am keen to get it up and running smoothly with minimum effort

so I thought I'd ask the community how I best go about checking and

declogging it if it has been closet camping for quite some time.

Kind regards, Henrik

Nope not yet.

The R1800 doesn't have light black and does not print with the same smooth transitions as the 2200 on Matte or Fine Art, especially if we are talking B&W printing. The 2200 is still the better option for those applications/papers. Talked to Imageprint techie support about these printers and this is their view on the matter.

Though (and you did not hear this from me) there IS another Skywalker...

...there is a successor to the 2200 in the works at Epson. It will sport one more grey / black ink cartridge (medium or light) of some sort for even smoother transitions. Should be developed and ready by this fall. Don't ask me how I know, I just do ;-).

I had some hopes for the R1800 but I will pick up a used 2200 instead (use a 7600 printer at work) with Imageprint. When the new printer arrives I will still do fine with the 2200 I think. I have a small stack of Fine Art papers that are begging to be used.

Bas - DON'T give up your MF gear just yet.

We are at work Imacon scanning Hasselblad negs from the late fifties (Tri-X) and print them 50x50cm (20"x20") and they are absolutely stunning and NOT "obsoletely stinking".

I have had the fortune to try some fine digital slr's (1dmkII and 1dsmkII) which have other great benefits. BUT the impact these ol' Hassy negs have are not to be frowned upon. I was tempted to bring a Canon 20D on the trip to India but though it is very good - it isn't good enough. And a totally different cup of tea.

I will lug my Hassy SWC/M off to India next week, for a month. With a Leica CM as sidekick. Tempted to bring a digi p&s but haven't found one that I like, yet. I do some work on digiSLR that I would have found awkward at best with analog gear but the Hassy has it's place. definitely, in my arsenal.

BTW your pictures look great, I too have the Epson but with the Imacon at work it is packed away :-(

Hi Gene,

the Reala is a very accurate film. The lab is at fault, but without knowing their equipment I can't help you further.

Altering ISO does not change color accuracy (within certain limits).

The info on the back does not refer to color adjustment, it is simply <neg no> and possibly print order no. Color adjustment info is not printed by all labs. In our lab you can decrypt the info to find out color and density adjustments.

Also Reala, has "natural" contrast which simply means it is not contrast enhanced like many other amateur films. This is why I like and use it.If you have a fairly sharp lens and shoot in harsh light you do not want the consumer grade films, the portrait films are somewhat lower in contrast and work better under these conditions but can be a bit flat indull light with anything else but decent optics.

Kind regards Henrik, Sweden

Many thanks Philippe.

I also (just now) got an answer that gave me the name of a "famous" place called Mahatta & Co opposite Narula fast food centre around Connaught Place.

Could this be the one place you were thinking of?

Looks like I'll be fine. Sounds reassuring about going to Delhi, look forward to it!

;-) Henrik

Hi all, I'll be hauling my Hassy SWC around northern India for five

weeks starting on the 14th of March. Anyone know of a reputable

laboratory/camera outfitters around New Delhi where I could refill

with fresh film and possibly develop some negs?

Kind regards, Henrik

Hi Martin, and others!

If it is a software based D&S removal, and a half-*ssed one, I have to agree it

is less promising than I thought. Why could they not have skipped the

antinewton glass and gone with a glass-less carrier solution?

If it is a halfbaked they will have to go back to the lab again... ...and I will wait

for something else. Someone know anything about that new Canon scanner?

I still think ?799 IS cheap for a MF scanner, but lacking decent D&S removal it

is a shot in the foot...

;-) Henke Rundgren

Ok, Ilkka, and others.

If it is a software based D&S removal, and a half-*ssed one, I have to agree it

is less promising than I thought. Why could they not have skipped the

antinewton glass and gone with a glass-less carrier solution?

If it is a halfbaked they will have to go back to the lab again... ...and I will wait

for something else. Someone know anything about that new Canon scanner?

;-) Henke Rundgren

Hi all,

I have on the web seen several posts on the new F3200 MF scanner

stating it does not have ICE. This initially put me off (and probably

others as well) as I wouldn't get a scanner without it. Luckily, I

found this recent german article:

http://ontop.grintsch-online.com/epson_presse/index.php?id=45&L=0&type=1&backPID=37&tt_news=1041

It clearly states that it comes bundled with Silverfast software with

both dust and scratch removal, both stated in the specs as well as in

the general text.

I hope this clears it up a bit and I for one will have a long hard

look at it when it arrives.

Kind regards, Henrik Rundgren

Hi all,

I have on the web seen several posts on the new F3200 MF scanner

stating it does not have ICE.

This initially put me off (and probably others as well) as I wouldn't

get a scanner without it. Luckily, I found this recent german article:

http://ontop.grintsch-online.com/epson_presse/index.php?id=45&L=0&type=1&backPID=37&tt_news=1041

It clearly states that it comes bundled with Silverfast software with

both dust and scratch removal, both stated in the specs as well as in

the general text.

I hope this clears it up a bit and I for one will have a long hard

look at it when it arrives.

Kind regards, Henrik Rundgren

If people were taking their time reading trough specs/info before posting many rumours would never persist.

People are already whining on the coming Epson F3200 not having ICE.

Funny, I just read a German article saying it comes bundled with Silverfast software with both dust and scratch removal. It is in plain writing both in the article as well as in the specs.

Until you KNOW don't post assumptions, I was one of the guys who was put off by the "fact" that it didn't have ICE and I am lucky I stumbled on the recent article which proved me wrong. I think this looks promising and reasonably cheap too. (list not streetprice roughly ?799 in Europe) Though I have the Epson 4870 I might be tempted by the F3200 for MF scanning.

Best regards, Henke

Eric:

But I do know how to treat digital... ...I do work with it on a professional basis.

Working with RAW files, preparing for printing/bookpublishing, scanning film

on an Imacon, doing reproductions of old pictures etc etc it's what I do.

And as for yourself I am amazed at what can be done (the touching up on old

photos have never been easier thanks to digital) but it is time consuming.

I mean like really. Some digital techniques I've picked up along the way do

work wonders but hey - it's the being stuck in front of the computer I don't

fancy. In a possibly not so distant future I might have to as there might be no

other option, but for the mean time I am happy with what I produce "straight"

from film - why should I bother to emulate it on the screen then? Waste of time.

To me that is. I don't want to have to put every single picture through the

computer, I like flipping through my prints.

When there is some editing to be done, that's when I turn on the computer.

When there is some small catalogue work to be done, that's where I turn

digital. If I shoot people, that's when I stick with film. Etc etc.

True that even in third world countries digital is growing, I have seen it too.

And most people I know have a cameraphone but still there are millions and

millions of film based cameras around and worldwide they still sell by the

millions annually. (Some one on photo.net posted some figures on that and it

didn't look to bad for film despite the fact that digital cameras have soared

beyond expectations.)

As for now there is something for everyone, maybe not everyone's budget -

but what else is new... I just like the seemingly endless options of today, even

with people considering film obsolete.

I have used both the Hasselblad SWC with the Biogon 38/4.5 as well as the

Mamiya 7II with both 50/43mm wide angle lenses.

You will not be unhappy with either camera. I have used Leica M's and

currently use Leica R. The quality leap when using some of the best MF optics

is obvious.

I chose the Hassy as it suits me just fine and is quite small. The Mamiya 7II

has the advantage of having a rangefinder and the 50/4.5 is quite amazing,

possibly the best MF wide angle lens I have used, and the field of view

(25mm) matches your Elmarit well.

Though I settled for the Hasselblad I would still recommend the Mamiya 7 with

the 50mm lens for you.

Regards, Henke

This thread is turning into the good old "the end of film is near - isn't it" debate.

It wasn't the purpose of the thread, but since we are here I might chime in;

in our fairly busy lab/camera shop people keep asking "film is dead - right?"

"you aren't shifting any film cameras anymore - right?" ..."no one is using film

nowadays - right?". Partially wrong. The net drop in developing and printing of

regular film is 10-15% over the past two years - not annually, but altogether.

We are still quite busy with good ol' film. In our lousy line of business the

digital revolution is a shot in the foot; people take more pictures but develop

less. And they want the same quality they got from film but for a fraction of the

price, with the price being the number one consideration - not quality. (It's

digital - so there's no difference in quality they've been told, so why pay

more?)

Unfortunately what they hand in for printing doesn't look good, with the

exception of a few people who have taken the time to get the most out of their

cameras. Then the results range from acceptable to very good.

True is that over the past two three years digital has come to dominate

camera sales over here in Sweden with the major chains digital sales totalling

up to some 95% of cameras sold.

True is also that an increasing amount of amateur photographers are sick and

tired of the crappy output from their p&s or slr style hybrids and are turning

back to film. Honestly.

Most of them are amateurs with some dedication to photography and the type

that is fairly quality minded. The are not ready to jump into digital slr's as they

either can't afford it yet or are afraid they will become obsolete in a year and

have decided to hang onto their existing gear for the time being.

These people also recognize the advantage of the p&s digital cameras for the

casual-not-so-important snapshots and also realize that their good old SLR

still delivers the goods for the "serious" pictures. They know what they can get

with film.

Of course digital has made quite a few good old analogue labs close down,

that is sad but unfortunately just the way things are. There are not many labs

around anymore that can cater to all needs (professionals and amateurs

alike) and there is a degenerative development in the lab business with the

new mainstream digital printing booths and people who don't know what they

are doing behind the machinery.

As for me, I have realized what a huge advantage digital can be in some

situations and use digital and film side by side. However, it isn't the time saver

it's cracked up to be and I still prefer the look of film and the output from my

Leica R and my Hassy SWC. (Though I often resort to the hybrid solution;

scanning my 120 negs before printing). Straight prints from the Hassy and

scanned ones still look stunning whatever digital camera lurks around the

corner. I don't have the "rush rush" mentality either so I don't mind the small

wait what with developing and all.

Also I have used some high end digital SLR gear for some jobs and, sure it is

plenty good, but for most of what I do film is just fine. And color consistency

(calibration, calibration, calibration) throughout the chain in digital is a b*tch.

Also, we are still selling old Nikon FE's, FM2's, Canon AE1's and the likes to

people in all ages - some because they feel they want a last shot at film and

some because they love shooting B&W, the general concern is that film is on

the verge of becoming a thing of the past but as many have stated there are

millions and millions of film based cameras out there - they won't vanish over

night. Sure some of them might end their days in "lesser" developed

economies but there will be a market for film for many years to come in a

global perspective. Surely there will be less to choose from and it might even

be more expensive but even around here in Sweden which is to be

considered a well developed economy, with front line technology in many

areas, people still hand in 3-15 rolls of film from their last trip - together with a

cd with the digi shots. And if there would still be a few million cameras around

in India, South America or wherever ten years from now film could be

imported and I don't think Kodak or Fuji is considering dropping film from their

production line just yet - I have a sneaking suspicion they still make quite

some money from it.

I am not saying film will prevail forever but we won't get rid of it just that easily.

Not unless we all panic and scrap our cameras and go buy digital.

Gee I do wish digital was as good as film, with the same "look" and with less

hassle and affordable and practical and I'd dump my obsolete gear and be

happy ever after. But we aren't there just yet.

Keep shooting, and, start with me for writing this tedious contribution to a

never ending debate.

regards, Henke (15% digital 85% film, roughly)

Hi Peter,

Kobalux? Never heard of / learning all the time...

Thanks for the link, very interesting. Any personal experience? What with

vignetting etc? Looks promising!

It seems like a few fellow M-fondlers (like me) are glad to see "competition

stiffen up" in the M-series line up with the new ZeissIkon, others are very quick

to pass judgment and diss it without even seeing / handling / reading the full

story. Isn't it a good thing that the market is expanding? I think so; the more the

merrier.

I write M-fondler as I shoot with R and a few lenses as well as medium format

but get to borrow a nice M6TTL outfit with some of the best Leica glass ever

made (love that 28 'Cron) whenever I need to. What's keeping me from M is

the fact that the lenses ARE expensive. Even for what you get. My Hassy SWC

can be found significantly cheaper than the 28/2 M-Summicron second hand

and if I want to print big, the small format can't keep up.

If now Zeiss (who knows their stuff) develops and configures (seemingly)

excellent lenses with low distortion and lets Cosina/Voigtlaender manufacture

them to help keep prices down, so what? If this means I can get that 21/2.8 or

25/2.8 Biogon for a reasonable buck and stick it to that M6 0.58 I know I'll be a

happy camper.

Having used Zeiss lenses extensively (SLR/G) as well as Leica lenses (R/M) I

can't say Leica's are superior. Some are outstanding and some are just

"great". There aren't any real dogs in any of these line ups (at least not the

ones I've used) and I find it hard to believe Zeiss would not be able to produce

some truly excellent (and in some cases reworked) designs to fit the M. Sure,

the statement that they would all be better is bold, but I think they would equal

the quality of the M's for sure.

The new 25/2.8 Biogon is my cup of tea. I had the Distagon 25/2.8 for Contax

SLR (which was a semi-dog actually as it was not quite sharp at f2.8 but as

good as it gets from there on) and loved that lens - just wide enough for my

taste. Now it's a Biogon design and probably bettered in many aspects. That

lens on any body would be nice...

Until they are released and people have actually started using them I just

don't think it's fair to post and say "huh rebadged Cosina's ey?" or "no, they

can't be as good as Leica's". So, Cosina is making the body, disappointed?

(errr somewhat disappointed I was too) But it depends on the final price, If

Zeiss had some quality input it would work out nicely still, and if not the lenses

are still for us to enjoy on the M's.

Give it a fair shot. I think many like me really like the G series lenses, they are

excellent, affordable but came with a crippling camera design. But the lenses

are excellent value for the money. If the ZM lenses are of equal or better

quality and competitively priced I wouldn't hesitate to give them a try on the M.

I might afford building an M system with some of Leica glass and some Zeiss

glass - sounds crispy to me ;-).

The Leica forum is one of the few I visit that really know how to unfloat a boat

before it has hit the water.

If Leica comes under pressure; good. Competition is good for all of us. I won't

buy anything sight unseen but will definitely try the wideangles out, the 21 "G"

Biogon (and the 21 Distagon I once had for SLR) are truly spectacular lenses

and I really look forward to a new lens line up.

The Sonnar 85/2 which is to be released is incorporating floating lenses and

seems to be a very promising design and a worthwile alternative to the Leica

counterpart. A co-worker of mine is off to Photokina today and will evaluate

the sytem on the spot ;-).

And who knows, maybe Leica gets to shift some more bodies thanks to this?

Best regards, Henrik

Hi Paul, it does not say in the manual.

However the batteries should not drain when the viewfinder LED's go out.

If you have not cocked the shutter the LED's extinguish immediately after you

release your finger from the shutter button.

If the shutter IS cocked the LED's stay on for 12 seconds.

I think if you forget to turn it off (which I do frequently as the camera is new to

me) and the shutter is cocked you are more likely to drain the batteries as

every little bump or knock in the bag might activate the camera. If the shutter

isn't cocked the LED's go out immediately and there should be minimal drain.

So to answer your question I don't think they drain when the button isn't

pushed. If I am out shooting I set it to "ON" and leave it there. (And of course

sometimes forget to turn it off by the end of the day...) I haven't run out of

batteries yet, still on the "old ones" that came with the camera.

regards, Henke