a. a.

Hello everybody

I had some ideas in a bit far from the above topic that ultimately might be able to help the whole rating situation as well.

Please feel free to have a look at:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00ERDc

Joe

Thank you for the support. I don't know who Mr. Big is! It's funny that after a year of membership I still don't know many (most) of the administratives.

But I think the idea should work and eliminate some of the constant arguments so a bit of work will pay off eventually and save time...as well as it'll create new visual inspirations for old and new members.

Ben

Thank you for the support and feedback.

Seven

Thank you for the link. I am familiar with it and I think comparably speaking it still doesn't act as the same function since we'll see the newly posted ones without seeing how other members have reacted to them compared to the older shots in past in the same category. That would help to come to many conclusions and even can help the pro photographers as well. Thank you again.

I'm very glad that you find the idea interesting.

I think once we create this style of arranging top rated photographs, many of the arguments regarding rating will be eliminated as well since there is a "better" chance for everybody to get some exposure in the "Top Rated Photos" page.

The other ideas of course can be followed too.

For example the top rated photographs can randomly show the top rated photographs from different categories every time that we go back to the main page instead of the constant one. Or if that requires too much work for the administrative then it can changes between more popular categories on a daily or weekly basis.

To be even more fair, the "randomness" can be calculated based on how many photos gets posted in each category on daily basis so the busier categories get more exposure of course. In this way the site stays fair to for example nature photographers yet give a slightly better chance to a documentary photographer as well. (A numeric example: 200 posted photos in nature category per day and 40 posted photos in let's say street category out of the total of 2000 photos uploaded...then the chances of seeing the nature category as the top rated photos page should be 5 to one compare to street photography (200/2000=0.1 and 40/2000=0.02)...but then it still would work nicely since other categories get some chance instead of almost zero.)

And the next idea...

Now to almost eliminate the whole rating frenzy we also can create the "curve" for each category.

It means if we consider the top of rate recent average of the lets say "street" photography as 7/7 (without writing it or with writing it) then we can calculate the rest of ratings based on that. A numeric example...could be like this:

Let's say the top of the street photography has got 6.00/6.00 in the rate recent average. If the system consider it as 7/7 it means all of the rest of ratings can be updated by multiplying them by 7/6 .

Of course this can create a chaos if we mix the categories with each other but it does nothing new in each category except changing the "name" of the ratings...this will take care of many of the arguments regarding numbers as well without doing anything unethical.

It's fair because each photo gets compared with its own category's photos of the day, week etc so numbers mean nothing but a tool for a fair comparison of how others have reacted to that certain photo in that certain category in that certain period of time. (not with mixed categories, mixed dates or even with other photographs in other sites or art galleries...etc....just between themselves.)

Just some ideas of course...

Cheers

M.H.

Greetings...

How can we see the highest top rated images of a certain category?

For example highest views of "street" photography in last three

months?

They are many great photographs which don't get any exposure because

their categories are rather more obscure than say nature, flower,

nude or portrait. This way we might be able to appreciate many great

members who are very active in for example "street" photography and

their works stay hidden unless they are appealing to everybody in

rather unusual situations .

If we could do the search based on the categories then maybe people

who are interested in "documentary" photography can see the more

successful ones of say last year in the respected category and enjoy

them side by side and come to some conclusions as well.

The curious new photographers also can get a better understanding of

the beeter styles in different categories since they can compare the

more effective shots within a single category.

I'm not sure if there is a way to do that or not and that's why I

consdered it a question and not a suggestion.

Regards

M.H.

Just few category suggestions...

What do you think regarding adding the following categories to the

site?

Editorial:

These are the shots which usually get done for editorial purposes .

They can help in explaining/exhibiting a point or the main subject

of an article or a story.

A good editorial shot serves a purpose just like a good movie score

(which at times means adding to whole story without dominating it)

and its characteristic are clearly different than an artistic or

casual portrait.

Art directors usually require them in certain ways and achieving

them is not necessarily like many other good shots.

Even the aesthetic of them can be effected based on the layout of

the page, texts etc.

Photographers might like to share the reasons of why they had to

shoot it this way and what were their challenges in doing so.

Glamour and Beauty:

So not every single shot of clothed models posing, have to end up in

fashion category when clearly many of the images are about the

beauty and sex appeal of the subject and are not done in

fashion/editorial fashion style.

Advertisements:

Where new and professional photographers can learn from each other

regarding professional layouts as well as different elements which

create a good and smart advertising campaign. From Fashion to Food,

Events, independent Films, galleries etc.

I had a conversation with ? beepy and James (Peepeye Photography) about one of my shots which turned towards fashion in general.

I cut and paste the questions and answers as well as link in case any body interested. The full link:

http://www.photo.net/photo/3606781

I agree with Randal on many of the points by the way.

-----------------------------------------

? beepy, August 05, 2005; 08:57 P.M. )

I was going to say I liked it:-) Thanks for the technical info.

So, what is a "fashion shot" as pertains to this image? What was the goal of the shoot?

Ooh la la...Fashion!

M. H., August 06, 2005; 03:26 A.M. (edit | delete)

Greeting to our friend with a funny sound...beepy!

What is "fashion shot"? What is a "fashion shot" to you?! J/K

I don't know. We can ask what is art? Why the hell we even think that abstract art exist. We can be all politicians and play with words and try to rationalize everything from art to different religions and patriotism. I guess few things are for "sure" such as basic mathematics. We don't even know how many planets we have in our own solar system!

OK...OK...I either can play it like a chess master predicting twenty moves ahead and simply say..."it's fashion because I say so" and "fashion is whatever I categorize it as fashion" or I can try to give you some answers to play with together...

The other day a young photography student told me that one of my photos is "opposite" fashion! Her reasoning? Because my model was not too fit and her bustier was too tight for her! The other older and wiser female photographer said..."since when we consider a photograph of somebody in a bra, a bracelet and a pair of jeans as fashion shot?" I had a feeling that young student was very concern with her own appearance and the stereotype of fashion models in the TV and magazines was filled her head, and the other lady probably is more inclined to consider Audrey Hepburn and her outfits in breakfast at tiffany's fashionable...which nothing is wrong with it but both of them have very selective angles to look at photographs and fashion photography.

What I call fashion is subjective and probably won't match many people's ideas of fashion...same story with my opinion of fine art photography or my other styles of photography. What I am after as aesthetic or compositional experiments also don't fall in many of older categories . Should I defend them or explain them? I don't know but I doubt it.

Anytime somebody exist and try to express her/his feeling through her/his attitude, make up, clothing, posing, characteristic masks, accessories etc I can see and compose a fashion shot.

Old psychologists used to suggest to depressed people to wear brighter and louder color outfits. They discuss which colors are good for hospitals and classrooms. Should we consider those as fashion and interior design statements? I think so. It effects and express the moods of certain people in those moments of time.

The cheapest versions of the fashion photography falls into glamour and catalogue works and then typical polished advertisements shots and later high fashion magazines and in my opinion if you get the last drops of the juice of this fruit you'll end up to a juncture of fine art meets documentary...a point which is about what is hip today or was in past or might be in future...or even only one person can consider hip one day. A lawyer wants to feel cool and drive a Harley Davidson on a weekend with a leather jacket but still can't pull it off...I see fashion there...because he exist and has tried to effect his life with things that he has chosen to wear...to me a shot from him can change from documentary to fashion or vice versa only by changing the technique and my connection to him. People tend to expect more grim looks in the documentary shots and a more polished shot and cleaner composition for fashion images.

In above image you can see certain basic fashion statements. Matching bras and matching pairs of jeans with suiting bracelet are there. You can see many pop stars wear less than that for a show so I don't see a lack of clothing hurt the shot as a fashion shot. They seem to be over friendly as well...now that is a fashion statement! I don't remember these many famous gays, lesbians and bisexual people in past decades. From Ellen to characters of funny sitcoms to many actresses and singers and even politicians or fights in courts for legal marriages between homosexuals...how being "bisexual" is suddenly so cool specially between younger crowds...(which one of the above ladies actually is)...

Now all of these could be baloneys as well. These all could be a series of soft porn shots and an excuse to take advantage of cliche.the "girl on girl" action! I think that part falls into the category of "eye of the beholder"...I tried to do my shots in my own take on "fashion" photography . "French Vogue/W meets documentary" as I said earlier. It is mine and I have worked on it for years. So whatever it is, it is not snap shots nor rushed thoughts even though I usually compose my images in less than few seconds since I think about them the rest of 24 hours.

Does she look proud in this image? I think she does. Does the image suggest a life style? I think it does. I think this was her first and last opportunity to be somebody who is hidden behind her typical family boundaries...few months before a healthy and normal marriage (as a matter of fact)...and I have saved these moments for her and myself by using my style and pushing the envelope. There was a film by Robert Altman about fashion industry in his usual style...in the last scene a nude pregnant woman came on the runway in Paris and all the photographers went crazy photographing her...was that fashion? I don't know but guess not...was that a fashion/political statement?...I am sure it was.

Baloneys I said sir!...or as I did say earlier......"it's fashion because I say so"?! :0)

Thank you for reading.

Fashion

Peepeye Photography, August 06, 2005; 03:11 P.M. )

Misha, I like this one a lot. I also enjoyed the editorial and what fashion is to you as portrayed in your photography. Somewhere accompanying one of your photos you wrote something else regarding what fashion is to you that I enjoyed, but don't remember which photo right now. As to ? Beepy's question "I'm not sure what a "fashion" shot is and what makes this one a fashion shot", I ran into an interpretation by Tom Meyer in a thread on fashion that I tend to agree with very much at: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00CAHh&unified_p=1. Of course as you said, there is a lot of pre conditioning in society, but Tom's interpretation pretty much hit the nail on the head to me regarding commercial fashion. Of course, I'm still working on how to portray what fashion is to me through my photography, and am still studying and observing others as I hope I will always be.

Cheers!

James

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I did a photo session for a poker publication last year (around Dec.

2004) with Jennifer Harman (twice world poker series champion) which

she appeared playing poker with her own dog. Me and her husband came

up with the original idea at the middle of session and there was no

direction given by the client to me in that regard whatsoever.

I gave the photos for one time use to the writer of the article who

lives in NYC. Within two months after that American Express created

a very similar advertisement image using Ellen and her dog playing

poker! Natural light, at home, she is sitting on the left and dog on

the right, playing poker...one paw on the table. It's just too

similar to be an accident. I wanted the image be wider to Jennifer's

home as background (because of the article) and their shot is more

concentrated on the comical element.

I did some research and even though I am not sure I'm guessing that

the writer had some connections with the agency who has done the ad.

I know that ideas are out there for grab. But do you think this is

cool? This is just an excuse to get some feedback in this regard in

general since this has happened to me multiple times by various

major companies and even famous photographers and national

publications. Some of them even have got the images from me, didn't

use them for some months so they don't have to pay me, and later

shot them exactly the same way using an "in house photographer"

producing lower quality images.

Thank you.

Link to my image:

http://www.photo.net/photo/3088062

Link to Ad:

http://www.commercialcloset.org/cgi-bin/iowa/portrayals.html?

record=2126