paul e. wog

Will you be doing the usual photo documentary on the building after he goes out of biz?

Good post John and for once it seems nobody has anything to argue about. If this keeps up it could put the PN forum industry out of biz.

 

My one question would be, and not meaning to be a thorn in the side. If you all don't care about ratings and its all blahseh, grain of salt etc...why u all get so uptight on the other end of the scale?

 

Wasn't it just last week the system had to go though major changes due to howls and crys about ratemating?

 

Well i use a better approach than deeming the rating system a mear amusement... I never shoot a shot unless its a 7. If someone rates it 6 they were obviously out of 7's. If 5 they had to be a bit green with envy....as the scale drops down the envy factor goes up. So in reality a 1 is the best score ya could get :)

I admire Ada and Lee cause they are sexy. And the guy with the most 7's...Yuri...lets hear it for Yuri!

Ah me too!!! I wanna be Joe Average.

Carl could u please post the link to that explaination, thanks?...would help a lot.

Just guessing at how this works also and correct me if wrong but... rfc requested are sorted in absolutly random order? With images not requested stuck at the back and rates are not shown on them, until opened? And even if no rates at all they are on there?

 

Sure appears so and maybe a glitch cause this image was submitted for rfc but is in back with no numbers...so whats that mean?

 

http://www.photo.net/photo/3265609

 

Also this image of Jayme's was submitted, has 13 rates total but only shows 1 rate on the thumb...now totally lost....but like the concept, just wondering the criteria for it.

 

http://www.photo.net/photo/3266221

A robot, huh? So they gonna fix the thing Michael?

Michael...whoops, i actually read that too...guess it didn't click, now the thread is buried and Brain never adressed the intitial question of Nicks anyway...maybe he will now, thanks. Why would they disallow it?

Jon i never tried a search till tonite and was just stunned. Seems all it links to is forum or articles like Greenspuns travel stuff from 15 years ago. Brian maybe overlooked this?? Will wait for him to answer i guess.

Was just suprized to learn a specific subject search brings back no

folder results on the google search...even within PN. It brings back

PN articles, but no referrence to folders or even photos.

 

An incredible resourse is being lost here. For instance... doing my

Alex Fraser Bridge series i did an alta vista search to find images

and info. There was a few pathetic images on the web but nothing even

approaching the size and quality here on PN on that subject.

 

Have been designing folders with the basic assumption that anyone, at

least here on PN, who wanted to visit Vancouver for instance, would

do a search and obtain links to people with pics from the place. But

not so.... Vancouver brings back zero picture results and i have 10

related folders full.

 

If i wanted to visit NYC first thing would be to search out pics here

because its much more than "travalog" type found on the web. It shows

the hidden aspects as portrayed by other PN artists...exactly the

things you would want to see if you visited the place....Not only

that but you could spot some place you liked in NYC and actually

contact the photographer here and find out exact location and even

more info if he offered it.

 

Having this function enabled within PN would lead us in a more

meaningful direction, well for some, than just one hit wonders on the

TRP. Those really only serve the person posting them and not really

any other funtional purpose than appease people with beauty or basic

interest.

 

How many folders here on PN are called "birds" or "flowers". Well

people with that interest should be able to link to all others just

for basic community togetherness...birds of a feather... With

millions of images you shouldn't have to sort through every one to

find a pic of a rose or a finch or whatever.

 

Lots of people here base their work on specific ideas or locations

but its all hidden away unless you luck into it it seems. This site

is probably the greatest image library on earth comparing to anything

found on MSN, Altavista searches etc...and one would think if our

folders or pics came up on those searches it would be an incredible

draw to this site. Not sure about those legalities but this should

work within PN searches at least shouldn't it?

You should really read the description on how to rate. Originality doesn't concern frquency of subject at all...its got to do with creativity of camera use or timing etc, composition.

 

Page one can be stuffed with birds but that kind of rating critera takes it to a popularity contest level... well it is in a way, and don't feel singled out, your not the only one rates that way...but its not proper rating either. When u go to rate click on the guildlines for a description.

I think its totally unnessasary to give many rates below 5. If all you do is promote pics the non promoted will automaticly demote....sure the number of ratings will be less on bad or mediocure pics...but who wants a bunch of rates telling you the pic is "average" anyway?

 

Serves no purpose and many times a comment in lieu of a rate will do much more good. Like if a very neg comment, simply don't rate. No sense adding insult to injury.

 

I bet not many people could tell you offhand how many 4's they have total...i never look and when i do it just doesn't seem to click...but 6's and 7's well different story. I get up and polish them daily.

 

Most of the grief on this site could be nullified by replacing the present 7 number thing with just...good...better...best.

 

So if a pic doesn't make "good", it simply doesn't get rates. Nobody would get hurt and nothing would change as to how the order goes... cause in the top 30 pages of the trp all pics are normally above 5 anyway.

 

The people in your circle who normally rate you operate exactly like this...rather than giving you a low rate they will just not rate it..right away it becomes obvious the pic must suck....some reason this won't work?

Discouraging yes...who is this Lewis guy gave 5000 4/4 anyway?... with no pics. Does management approve of this?

 

This a robot?...not only can he not tell a good pic...he can't even tell a bad one...whats the point???,,, why not just do a systemwide 4/4 application and save this poor soul his mouse clicker finger?

Oh...one more thing.

 

One aspect of having ratings visable that i haven't seen mentioned is this is a learning site, sort of, and people have people they respect and look up to for their reputation and skill.

 

When u can see what the people who gain the most respect dish out for scores on a given pic, it sets the stage for most below their level to work around in their own decitions. Those rating way outta whack become more apparent. If the "king" of landscapes, whoever that is gives a lower score it becomes reason to question the image by others.

 

This info being hidden actually hurts any learning by example immensly in my view.

Nick they may seem boring to you because its not your interest. I love opening page 1 and "hopefully" seeing some very pretty pics... just to see them. The only way to sort them into order of beauty is by rating or one group of reviewers picking and choosing.

 

The entire process seems to work pretty good except for the people David is referring to as per this post, and its quite valid.

 

Why should some bum off the internet, with no pics, makes no contibution to PN finacially or in a positive light at least... be allowed to dictate and influence the order of exposure here for the members?

 

It does make members very discouraged and causes endless arguments, forum posts and work for abuse.

 

Some dude who ordains himself the great equalizer in the pn art world, with no pics, is just as bad as the worst mate rater. Nothing is being gained or stolden by either but the validity of the system from the members pov is degraded. No matter what manangement claims is the purpose of the rates they have no vested interest as the members do...they don't post pics why should they care?

 

PN is being prejudiced about the rates really. You can see who gave you a 7 or 6 easy but what about the rest? Why are they hidden? To avoid fights?... just as many fights happen now because of people being falsly accused.

 

Thats exactly what the system needs is some accountabilty. Why are the low raters given preference? Would they rate low if they had to stand up and justify their actions?

 

Theres abuse at both ends of the scale but the anonimity of the low end only allows the high end to flourish. People see this injustice tolerated and figure PN just doesn't care...so why not cheat the high end? All of a sudden the entire rating system is invalidated.

Would it really hurt anything to clearly define the bountries between manip and non and assign an icon to the image denoting what it is?

If you rate my pics less than 6 please explain in comment whats wrong with your monitor...or eyes.

 

I can't stop looking at this guy who's give out 5000 4/4 and less than 100 5..6..7...3..

 

Must be bored to tears...yup another 4...yup another 4.. does he go out? Well i saw him give a 5/4 one day. Must have been feeling dangerous.

For last 2 days, intermitently...last night couldn't load a page for

hours, and its not me or this location...others reporting it too

worldwide...anything up?

Yes i concur.....rate folder is not working......

Guy thats very well said and totally rational. The cream should and will rise to the top and what dictates that is votes and opinions that influence votes or popular opinion on the images themselves.

 

Most highly manipulated images have no "soul" or feeling and there doesn't seem enough awareness that the O side of the vote concerns that....creativity, feeling, flavour, originality of use of lens or situation (not meaning subject). A of course visual impact...everyone reading this knows probably but the average voter may not, or seem to doesn't really make proper use of it.

 

Won't even mention the ratings system, the post might get deleted...but i just maintain theres not enough leeway in a 7 number vote with 10-15 end results to give a clear definition. If a decimal was added so you could go say ...6.2/5.6... would be 10x more accurate wouldn't it?

John I'm with you just said it in a round about way, maybe a bit offtrack in that high end digit doesn't apply so much but lower end just doesn't produce the results so requires heavy ps work. Should have said this wasn't a prob till the advent of the digit.

 

Then the mentality sets in and progresses from cloning stuff out to complete background switches and smudgeouts, burnouts etc and its becoming more than the accepted norm, but the expected norm. All day long i get comments wish listing objects should be removed and no matter how good its done it ruins the image, it just becomes a matter of tricking peoples eyes to satisfy a sterilized image ideal. A garden in real life doesn't have a lone flower sitting naked on 3 acres...theres stems etc around.

 

The problem really stems, imv, from the simplistic nature of the manipulation box. Theres a guy sandwiching skys and doing very well and i had no clue until reading the details he was honest enough to provide...but he didn't need to do that and he's the exception. Because people can, they will and the very definition of what actually makes a "photograph" on pn is way too loose. As long as it contains one pixel of photo base it qualifys as our ideal of a photograph, on paper...but the photographers don't think that way.

 

Your post John seems to be describing the symptoms and the root of the disease needs fixing. None of this was even an issue much until the advent of digital "darkroom", be it ps or within cam software. The manipulation criteria hasn't changed a bit since its inception although the technology sure has.

 

Either lobby to have those rules changed or go onto the images and question them as you were doing before, oh so well. Most don't have the time to disect and image or the knowledge like you do. Course you can't really do that here without suffering retrobution bigtime from those who want to pull the wool over, so a rule change would be the much prefered method don't you agree?

I agree John but wheres the dividing line? With the advent of the wonderous digit seems its not so wonderous. By nature it falls 6X shorter than film resolution and is PS dependant. Gotta be sterilized and "neat imaged" to death...end result is a lifeless manufactured reasonable facsimily of a photograph.

 

This "look" appeals at first as something new and exciting. More jump onboard it becomes the "norm". The candy is wearing off and the degration of photo quality is apparent.

 

Now a master takes a beautiful pic with a 6x7 pentax and it sits on page 5. Not bad...but its not neat imaged...whats wrong with this guy? 4/5

 

A lot now have no clue. They see a real film image they start throwing accusations of PS!!!! its got too much colour!....like your a criminal....then they go process their digit stuff with ps to try attain the same effect.

 

Not anti digit at all, they take great snaps ... after that they are forced into art rather than photography because they just don't have the inherent qualities to take a landscape as a landscape looks...you know...with clear trees 5 miles away?

Conclusion? Can we still talk?...cause i been thinkin this out Wilson and have few points if i may add.

 

20 Wilson 20. Kick out everything except the 20 super winners and ya can be the top photog here..or close.

 

"I don't want to wear out a portfolio visitor with too many (or too little) images"

 

Why worry about that? Worry about boredom setting in. Pics are pics and if they are interesting they will keep looking...or they will bail to find better pics.... so always put the worst ones at the top.

 

Somewhere 5000-10,000 would seem a good figure for a guy of your stature. You must have them and considering you can't delete....

 

Anyway it forms a security blanket cause nobody can 3/3 10000 pics without being obvious...but a better deal is consider the 56k'er... might take him good 3 weeks to load your port...so once he's there he's made an investment...he's gonna hang around and rate pics for a month and comment.

 

Seriously Wilson i looked your port and thought...u been here all this time and just 360 pics????...wheres your pics Wilson? I bet u got 10,000 of the space needle...comon confess.

How often does the TRP update anyway? Seems not enough and my most interesting list hardly ever updates it seems...but comments seem fairly often...why is all this?

Brian...just a note here if you get it. Paid via paypal for extra storage last week but still getting the nag message on upload...well no big deal, just hope you recieved it.