colin jackson

William, that's where my film used to ride also with sprocket holes intruding into the

exposure by half their width - that's a long way over the rails! They will still do that if I

don't make sure the film sits 'twixt the rails as I close the back.

I understand that MPs are more susceptible to this syndrome as the rails were cut more

squarely that previous models which had some sort of camber to guide the film between

the rails. Once I finish the current film in my M3 I will try to see if I can duplicate this

problem.

I'm not being argumentative and admire your ingenuity but don't think it will be necessary

for others with this problem and would be concerned if any of your shimming comes adrift

and causes actual damage, warranty voided etc....

Cheers

Let's see if I've figured out this linking thing. <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-

a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00ArbD">LINK</a>

I had EXACTLY the same problem and posted it under M bodies titled "MP exposures off

centre" on 2005-01-21. (Haven't figured out to make a link yet.)

The problem turned out to be in my loading. I was not assuring that the cassette was

firmly clicked down into the camera and the film was above positioned above the bottom

rail when I closed the back. This was after about 50 films with no problem but had been

loading more carefully I guess and the problem occurred after I got cocky and careless.

Checking the film tracking with the back open will not work as the pressure plate is not

holding the film down and it will drop down as you advance.

I would advise anyone with this problem to check this out before modifying the bottom

plate which sounds effective but at least in my case would have been unneccessary.

"Oh my, not only does loading a Leica seem to require a treatise, but rewinding the film as

well! how inspiring it is that you gentlemen sacrifice actual picture taking in deference to

time spent getting on with your cameras."

Shouldn't you be out "getting on with" taking your pictures instead of wasting your time

posting unconstructive comments on a thread which is apparently of no interest to you?

Thanks for the input which is giving me a better perspective on this issue.

The fact that the catch halfway now seems obviously for the meter but am still concerned

about the dry feel on for the rest of the travel. Hopefully Leica will smooth that part out.

A sticky shutter action makes a mockery of my softie and alleged superior Leica optics

when handholding.

The MP rewind looseness may seem trivial to some but the M3 is already spoiling with its

snugger feeling and not having to involve an extra finger. Mind you, Al Kaplans advice a

few months ago on how to rapidly rewind the old style using a fingernail on one hand to

hold the knob up and running the side of the r. index finger along the knurled knob for a

fast rewind rate works great with the nonexistent friction MP. It is even faster that the

frictioned knob as the latters friction makes the finger rub insufficent to turn the knob in

my case. My concern is that the MP is not up to its claim in this regard and has a

generally sloppy feel to the stalk. I paid for the damn stiffness and I want it!

I just got my M3 which some respects is putting its grandson to a little shame. What a

camera!

The M3 has a friction rewind knob which requires one less finger in the rewind process.

And to quote Erwin Puts test report on the MP:

" The rewind knob has a very useful friction now. Every Leica user has experienced the

following: you rewind the film and halfway your fingers slip. Then the force of the curled

film pulls the rewound part back and you have to start all over. The MP rewind knob has

been designed with an inherent friction that is equal to the film force. Now you can

remove your fingers from the knob and the film stays where it is. I did try it during my test

of the camera and it works."

This is backwards in my case. The MP rewind is loose and has no friction to hold it from

spinning back under the springy tension of the rewinding film. The rewind stalk is also

wobbly vs. the M3 tight tolerances. By the way the M3 SN is 111xxxx, a '65 model.

Also the MP has a sticky, dry feeling shutter button action compared to the silky M3 so the

after a year and half and about 80 films the MP is going back for warranty service.

I will miss my meter and the bright MP viewfinder with wide angle framelines while it is

gone, but will have the M3 to keep me company.

Just wondering... Any other MP users that can confirm their camera has rewind friction or

not and any other M3 users that have it.

Thanks.

Unless you are going to seal the bag with dessicant in it then you are sealing in humidity

which is bound to worse that open air even if you are in a humid climate.

Surely if open humidity was a problem Al would know about it as I think he lives in one of

the more humid climates on the planet and has had decades for his M's to rot which

apparently they have not.

I see quite a few old M's for sale with cracked covers and wonder if the humidity might not

be so bad. If you were to seal your cameras up against humidity it might make sense to

use a dessicant in the bag but suspect that could contribute to vulcanite cracking.

One source (can't remember) suggested an occasional application of neatsfoot oil to the

cover. Anyone tried anything that seems to work but doesn't leave an oily residue?

Perhaps all this well meaning fidgetting might be a case of outsmarting onesself, no?

I sounds straightforward and can't wait to give it a try again after 30 years. And the link

is great, Juan, and I plan to print it out.

Thanks everybody.

I just won an auction on an M3 SN 111xxxx (yay!), in fair user condition (180 day

warranty) and expect it in the mail early next week. I owned one in the late 60's, sold for

$200 with 50 summicron in mid 70's (never forgave myself). I have forgotten how I

loaded it and can't find tips in the archives or manuals on the net. Have found lots of

comments in archives about how hard or not to load but no details. A am hoping to get a

jump on this thing and a few specific tips would be much appreciated. Perhaps it is just

awkward but obvious from the diagram on bottom of inside and I don't recall struggling

with it in my youth but learned more quickly back then. Yes, it does include take up spool

and I have 3 lenses (21,35,50) with late model M .85 but anticipate the 50 to live on this

body.

All tips much appreciated especially any that go "don't ...... or you will damage it beyond

repair" sort of thing. Thanks, guys.

Come to think of it, the version shouldn't matter, I don't think. I have the .85 version and

there is no bottom line on the 50mm. frame, just the bottom 2 corners. I suppose it is to

leave room for the metering lights.

I am surprised you have any bottom line at all no matter which way you view it. I would

love to have full frame lines to help compostion but I guess they need room for the

metering lights.

If you ever want to use a Rapidwinder or Leicavit, Toms is the only one that will work as it

is shorter allowing room for the trigger. I use the Leica grip and love it as I am used to it

but don't want the RW option.

Mine is 2939XX with no dust in 1 year and no visible space around the viewfinder even

with 60X magnifier and no paper will slip in for what that is worth.

They are in sealed bags so can't see color. Apparently it was made for use for the military

to keep guns and ammo dry but is sold at Leos in (rainy) Vancouver for camera use. I used

to use the other stuff but it was a pain packing in little pill capsules with tiny holes and the

procedure was messy every time I had to redry which was frequently.

As I mentioned, the instructions for redrying are clearly marked but takes 8 hrs. and may

not be necessary.

I live near Vancouver, Canada not for from the ocean and my camera guy, Horst, can tell

that some Hassy components internally have been affected by our damp environment.

Slightly OT but my Nikon F which was inundated in salt water on the Oregon coast in '69

and washed in fresh water then wiped dry a few minutes later has never needed servicing

and is still working well. Perhaps I shouldn't worry....

I bought several packs of "Eagle Gel type 1 or type 2"dessicant mil-D-3464-E about a year

ago. The store sold it dry and said that it should be redried when it get a bit slushy

feeling when squeezed in the bag as opposed to "rattly" as it was then and still is. The

pack has instuctions for reactivating (250?f for 8 hours).

I actually use it with by Blads as they sit for months while I use my Leica stuff regularly but

plan to put in the Leica case for a while to make sure they are dry if I am not planning to

use them for a while.

I can't believe the gel is still dry after all this time. I could toast it in the oven to make sure

but I would think there must be some way to tell if it is wet. I have used loose gel before

which changed from white to blue but this is enclosed in brown packs.

Does anybody else have experience with this stuff?

Thanks

My medium red filter (factor 8) requires 3 stops compensation although my M6ttl system

on my MP indicates only 1 stop. Curiously my Luna Pro shows the 3 stops with the filter

moved in front of its window. The M6ttl system apparently sees colours very differently

and I don't trust my camera meter with a filter mounted.

I am perfectly happy with my .85 using both 50 mm and 35 mm

lenses. My current MP replaced my old M3 which was about .93

magnification. I wish that was an option on the MP personally

having got used to it. I see no problem using accessory

viewfinders where neccessary on the wide angles as focussing

is hardly an issue with great depths of field with 35mm and the

CV 21mm I hope to pick up next.

I have posted a thread "Jorge, Sheldon, Skeeter .." apologizing to

them for dismissing their advice. I have not been able to

recreate my problem when taking more pain in loading film as

they suggested though I got away with my system for 50 films.

At least so far, and would love to believe that is the end of that.

MEA CULPA and promise to shut up about this whole

embarrassing but educational experience.

I feel very foolish. As Red Green says the 3 hardest words for a

man are I WAS WRONG then second YOU WERE RIGHT.

I have tried the careful method you have outlined loading the film

and that I used to use before I got sloppy (and for some reason

got away with for so long!) and have not been able to recreate my

problem. (See "MP exposures off centre")

Making sure the film is sitting between the guides snuggly after

advancing a frame to see all is well before closing the door is

seems to be the key in this case. Also that the sprockets are

engaged.

After this I will take all precautions as you suggest.

I still suspect something else is happening here that would

explain why I got away with my drop and close method so long.

But in reality just my stupidity.

Thanks again guys for what was good advice.

The sprocket wheel has no play but the film is being held up on

that side. It is on the left (cassette) side that it drops down.

Sometimes I can wind off several (about 10) exposures without

the film dropping, other times it comes off right away.

I am curious if anyone finds that the film by the cassette can

easily be wiggled over the bottom rail with the fingertip when a

test film is loaded, bottom on but door open. Let me know if you

get a chance to try this.

It may be that the cassette needs to be held further up but that

would mean that the "bump" that houses the bottom locking

mechanism would have to be larger.

I will let you know what comes out in the wash with Leica.

Thanks all for your input.

This is definitely not a loading problem, guys, but I do appreciate

your advice.

When I first got the camera I had a few problems but found that

this camera likes the simple approach, drop in and close. By the

way, I can observe the film passsing through the camera with the

back door open and bottom on when using the test film. Believe

me when I say the sprockets are beautifully engaged and

advance is smooth but the film still drops on the cassette end

where it falls off the guide.

It is as if the cassette is not being held up high enough and falls

about 1 mm. too low but even when I observe all loading

precautions including ensuring the film is between the guides

when I close the back, it manages to fall down between

pressure plate and guide.

Thanks Jorge but I have been following a formula for loading that

I picked up on LUG and has served me well all this time for

some 50 rolls. Previously I had an occasional problem that you

allude to. I now just drop in the cassette with the film tongue

dropping into the tulip. Then I put on the bottom and wind of a

couple of fast ones then tension the rewind and I'm off.

Absolutely foolproof til now.

By the way, the pressure plate appears to be normal. It seem

that the pressure plate should hold the film down between the

guides but even when it starts out in the guides, it inevitably,

comes out.

Fortunately I have the passport warranty but would hate to send

my baby away for what may be a minor adjustment.

I got a new MP about 10 months ago and have put about 60 rolls

of self bulk loaded Tri-X through it. The last 4 rolls have had the

exposures low on the roll at times slightly below the sprocket

holes. Using a test film and firing off a few shots then removing

the back, sure enough the film is riding on top of the bottom

guide rail, presumably with the pressure plate having

sandwiched the film between it and the guide. There is no sign

of the problem on the previous 60 rolls and have been doing

nothing different. I will call the service folks on Monday but in the

meantime I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this

and can shed some light on it.

Thanks for any input on this.