marionovak

Mauro,. I don't have it handy here since I am on location,. but explaining principles of Zone VI, when reproducing art, I

forgot to mention that I quite often use color and gray scale strips calibrated by Kodak.

 

If You photograph gray scale strip ( which has squares from pure white to pure black in increments of 1/2 stop,.You

will get simple and very accurate test ,. you will see at which point you don't see difference between two squares at

oposite end of the strip,.for film and for digital camera and that will give you accurate difference in range

Bernie,.I just did with Zone VI,. but it was apparently over your head for lack of your knowledge of some basic things

in photography,.. besides,.I never, ever called anybody stupid on any of the forums,. so don't put words and things in

your post that I have never said

Also Bernie, Rishi,. few posts above,. understood what he was looking at,. you didn't

Bernie,. your sarcasam is out of place,..great Ansel Adams have developed Zone VI sistem,. of judging prints and negatives on scale of 12 stops,. where VI ( or 6 ) is middle "Gray Value". That is very good described in three books that Ansel Adams did,. "The Camera" , "The Negative" and " The Print" Although many people don't shoot film anymore,. thos boosk are very valuable to study, because lots of those principles can be very well applied in digital photograpy and in processing digital photograpy

Mauro,.. when I have mentioned P45+ and X5 I didn't meant that you need to use them,.. it was just an example of scanner and digital back on the same level of technology,.I don't know how better to explain.

 

You can do just as well with 40D,. but to use the scanner that is similar technical range,. and off hand I cannot tell you which scanner to suggest, since I am not that much in that level of market.

 

Point that I was trying to make, was that results can be more flawed if the scanner is of much different and better technology than 40D,. which is reletively low end camera,. no insult intended. Then you would get more accurate comparison,... so if camera is $ 1,000,..use teh scanner that is 1,000 and that is of teh same CMOS technology,.. that is my opinion and point that I was trying to make. My first comment for some other posts that I have read.

 

Also, you can Google my name,. there will be interesting results that you will find,.

forget it Bernie,..

Rishi,..yes,..this is sunlight through stained window and altar is lit by the candles,.. especially check that Black

Madona didn't loose detail in the face, neither white dress burned out

Mauro,. I will do it tomorrow,. it is 6 am where I am,. and got to hit some sack before we continue today,.

 

Bernie,. by checking your portfolio,.I don't think you have enough experience to understand imagery I have posted. Anybody who has good knowledge of Ansel Adams zone VI system, can read from image how wide the range is, especially in b/w photo. And you have no right to insult people like you do,. especially people that have way more experience than you will ever have and that paid their dues on the road.

I will try,. I am on location on a big project,. how do you want to set it up? I don't have f64 on Mamiya,. it goes to f22,. but I can play aorund with the speed

Mauro,. from two images I have posted, and complexity of those lighting situation,. should be quite enough,.I believe photographers that dealt with similar situations will know what to look for. I do apologize if I have ofended you, I was trying to some other members explain difference in technologies and how aproach a test

Bernie, I wasn't taking about Mauro,. I meant lots of other posts that I have read following his,. so do I apologize to

Mauro,. I am not trying "to plug in" shamlesly my photography, I am way to busy proffesionaly for that. I was just

trying to explain to some other members not to mix apples and oranges and having engineering background, I know

how to set up accurate test. I was just trying to explain that when you do comparison,of two tests, film scanner and

camera should be in the similar price range, similar class,. sort of speak,. that gives more realistic test,. also that

both pieces of equipment are of similar generation. You can't scan film on CCD scaner and then compare it to CMOS

camera,.. that is my opinion,.. regarding P45+ and X5, it was just an example to explain myself,. two similar

technologies, that came out at about the same time

I agree Dave,. I have been shooting for 35 years and I am sad to see things like Rodinal dissaper,. which was developer of my choice,. I still shoot b/w,. changing back on my Mamiya allows me to do so,. and then have Velvia 50 for certain situation,.. which I scan with X5

ok,. sorry if I wasn't so clear,. if you compare film which is scanned with much higher quality scanner with CCD

sensor and then you compare that to Canon 40D which has CMOS sensor,. that test will be greatly in favour o film.

Also, development of technology is such that every few months new things come out.

 

What I was proposing was to test a film scanned on X5 Hasseblad scanner, which is about year old technology,.

versus some digital back like PhaseOne P45+ Both use CCD technology. I shoot both film and digital at the same

time,. film both color and b/w and I do about 7-8,000 shots on location each month, so I can freely say that I have

experience both scanning and processing digital.

 

Stil,. in some cases film is way to go,. but I found dynamic range of CCD digital back, pulling of the shots that film

will never be able to do. I am including one recent shot,. attention is to back lit windows on the sides, and the dark

face and white dress of Madonna at the middle of the shot,. only existing lighting i sbeing use<div></div>

Above shot was done with existing lighting using PhaeOneP45+,.. no fill in lighting was used, pay attention to deatil,. both in the hightlights and in the shadow

wow, lots of confusion and lots of lack of knowledge,. here are few very simple answers,. Canon 40D uses CMOS

technology, and it is rather cheap camera,. while profesional systems such as Phase One ( I use P45+) have full 12

stop range,.. secondly,. scan should have been done on some top line scanner to compare those two,. juch as X5

from Hasseblad/Imacon and then you could see that in some ways digital back such as P45+ exceeds capabilities if

film, even when converted to b/w. I recetly posted few portraits. done digitally,. you are free to check<div></div>

here is one image,.<div></div>

Alvaro,.lots of things that are mentioned are not neccessary. I print up to 30 ft large ( instead of me listing references, go to Google and check out my name, to see exhibits and lectures I do around US and Europe ) and, especially on canvas you can get superb prints already at 75-80 dpi, which for 40"x60" would be about 40 Mb tiff file. Key is to have quality capture and get image saturation properly balanced for media you are using,. as well profiles in your printer driver for that particular media.

here is one shot with 28 mm without comparison,.. i tos ok, problems in teh corners

Here is one shot with 500/4 APO lens,.. full frame and zoom in to pixel level

here is one more shot with 75-150

enclosed is a shot with new Mamiya lens with zoom in to pixel level

I just purchased both 28 mm and zoom 75-150 D lenses,..pricey option if you can find it at all, and sharpness is remarkable in comparison to regular lenses,.. I'm using PhaseOne P45 and waiting for P45+ to be delivered. I also use 300 and 500 APO lenses, pretty good, but not as good as new lenses, 28 and zoom,..

 

However, there is s software glitch both with 28 and 75-150 mm lenses, you have to wait 20 seconds to do next shot,.I just came back from Maiya today, they are working on fixing up the problem,,.

Thank you Jack,. since I trust manual more in aerial work, and there are few manual lenses that are not available in autofocus, I wanted to find out what's going on. I'm especially interested in 24 mm, 300/2.8 APO and 500 mm lenses of which are none available in AF,. besides it is easy to find those lenses used invery good shape. Price difference adds up when you get 3-4 lenses,.

I'm planing to buy 645AF II mainly because of digital back and 1/4000 shutter

speed that I need for aerial work. However, I prefer to use manual lenses

during aerial work. I understand that manual lenses will work with that camera

but aperture has to be set manualy, which is no big deal, question is, does

light metering work on the camera with manual lenses and if there is any

information about aperture in the viewfiinder ( up/down, or similar) I'm not

that familiar with Mamiya system.

 

Thank you for your answers

Dear Troy,. thank you very much for your detailed answer, that does support my thinking that just throwing numbers and megapixels ( and attaching price accordingly) is not neccessary getting that much more than what lenses can deliver. Also, I thank all other people that gave me much better insight what is happening with digital backs vs traditional film, not mentioning colors etc,,. mainly focusing on resolution.