patrick_f

I completely agree with what Neil said, except for the part about hiring models...

I found myself in a very similar situation this year. I shoot Commercial and Editorial and it is nothing like weddings! Luckily I also shoot lots of

events so I had somewhat of an idea about shooting uncontrolled action. I got lucky, and two of my friends got married. I shot there weddings for

"free" (although they gave me a healthy tip) mostly to get some experience. If I were to shoot another wedding, I would feel alot more

comfortable doing so. So try the Craigslist route if you do not have any family members or friends getting married. I WOULD however rent a few

models/makeup/etc and shoot some bridal portraits/couples shots. In both of the weddings I shot this year we did not make it to the pre-scouted

locations where we were planning on doing the formals. Both weddings I had to improvise and still had like....10 minutes to do formals. If you

could produce some really nice shots with models, I do not think it would hurt your portfolio one bit! It can only help, as you are still showing your

eye and skills when you DO have the time to produce!

Personally, I would not hire a wedding shooter unless they had a solid portfolio. I got "hired" because my friends recognized my skills beyond

the fact that I had not shot a wedding before.

Incase you are interested here are the gallerys for both weddings:

http://patrickfoley.smugmug.com/gallery/6520239_PghJN#414384834_Ayxf3

BTW, the number one thing I learned from my first wedding is that I would never even consider shooting another wedding without an

ASSISTANT!

Hello. I think I know the answer to my own question but I thought I would get some feedback to make sure before proceeding...

Recently I did a commercial shoot for a well known international company. In my contract, I gave them pretty liberal usage considering,

but made sure that I maintained copyright, etc. Usage, etc was not a problem and everything seemed in order. I did not, however, get

model releases from some of the executives I shot, including one notable personality. I would have but I did not have any on me nor a

way to print them. I was told by marketing that "it's not a problem, we will get them for you". Emailed the model releases over a few days

later with the invoice. A few days go by, I hear nothing. I speak with my POC in marketing and was told "oh, there is a problem with the

releases....I don't think we can get those for you". Apparently the company lawyers said no to the releases and do NOT want me using the

photos on my website. I find this out as I am putting the photos up. Now I have no intention of re-selling the photos to stock or any other

means. Really, they are worthless for re-sale due to the company logo, subject matter, etc. But in my portfolio they would be a strong

addition, thus I want to use 3 of them on my website. With the company logo boldly visible in the photos, do they have any legal recourse

to stop me from using the photos on my website and in my portfolio? I have no paperwork from them telling me not to, just the marketing

POC telling me that is what the lawyers said. Keep in mind, this was in no way a "work for hire" or anything else. I shot the job and have

a contract that states: "All rights not specifically granted in writing, including copyright, remain the exclusive property of Patrick F."

Still, I have never run into a situation like this....

Thanks

Patrick

I almost wonder about this....

Even at $15/hr, you are being seriously underpaid and are contributing to the demise of the value of the trade. If what you describe as your work is accurate, I would look at getting at least 25% (on the low end) of the cost of the wedding, You should at least be making $250-350 per shoot even at an assistants rate without taking pictures. I have shot two weddings (three if you go back ten years) I paid the assistant $250 to hold a light on a pole for a few hours. Worth every penny in the long run (quality of the photos). Both weddings I shot raw and spent an entire week processing in Light Room. That time is real work and was hours of work I did not bill for because both weddings were personal friends. Realisticaly I would charge $1,500-$2,000 in the wedding package for editing, processing, and album design. Call it a "design fee". This is the work that goes from importing the card, processing in Lightroom, and photoshop album design ( I love Lumapix Fotofusion!) But personally, I can say that the person who processes the files is doing the grunt work of the job and should be paid for the work! I bill $75 per hour for digital retouching depending on the project.

$12 per hour? You are being ripped off and taken advantage of. Unless you are out there in east guam...

I still disagree about the prices....in general, after you have stated your price what else do you have to talk about? Too many

people searching for "the cheapest" and could care less about the quality. Get them to call you on the phone and sell yourself,

your product, and the emotion. Then bring up the issue of price after they are already sold on YOU. Business/sales 101

Case in point, from a posting a few down from this one:

Walt Flanagan , Sep 27, 2008; 08:19 a.m.

"Anytime I see a gallery that is all flash or has music I close the tab. It's not worth my time."

Very nice design, but ditch the music! Not that I dislike the song, but I really do not understand why people add music to there

sites! From everyone I have polled, most find music very distracting and annoying. Especially me. Remember: Just because the

song may fit, or because you like it, does not necessary mean the everyone else will agree. It is just like putting ones prices on

there site - a huge blunder. Both are two of the biggest pitfalls to photo websites. Just my $.02

My opinion of Lightroom is this: I tried C1, Aperture, and Lightroom at the same time. I have all three, but lightroom is the only one

I would consider using. Take all of the usual adjustments I spend time using from photoshop, create one clean side bar menu,

and a quick and easy way to apply the adjustments to each or every picture. Unless it is to sharpen/save to the web, or getting

into the "layers" of photoshop (which personally I rarely use), I have no reason to even open the files in photoshop. At least 5x

faster (for me) than photoshop. Lightroom is the most unbelievable program ever, in my opinion! (then again, I am not a big "fix it

in photoshop" guy...I try to get it right in camera!)

BTW.... shouldn't that "60" be in his hands? Does not do much good on one's shoulder...; )

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Try using a hand held meter, and switching to manual if you want true control...Meter the background (sun, sky) and the output of

the flash, and set the camera accordingly.

I use, and am 1000% satisfied with foliolink(dot com). Have a look at my site - http://www.patfoleyphoto.com to get a rough idea of the quality vs.

price they offer. Very very easy to use and decent customer service. When I asked a similar question a year ago, and reviewed all of the options

(including overpriced versions like livebooks), Foliolink was the clear winner...and for me they still are! Do not go with some lame garbage like

sitedesigner whatever you do. Garbage is an understatement!

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Hello all,

This question is more for the commercial photographers, but any professional (you make 100% of your living from) photographers responses are

welcome. Quite simply, this summer sucked in my market (Florida) and was extremely slow. Many of the photographers I know said that it was the

slowest they had ever seen it. How are other markets doing? Have you experienced the same? Also, would like to know what your thoughts are

with the coming economic collapse and how it might affect the industry altogether.

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I dont know if Nikon makes one, but the Canon 90mm Tilt/Shift is about the best lens I can think of for this type of photography...

DUH! Wow, I feel like a complete idiot....I did not notice that I could scroll down a little further...and there it was. Thanks!

Hello,

Dumb lightroom question here, but the text in the bottom left corner of the attached photo....it is appearing on every photo I process with Lightroom

and I cant figure out how to get rid of it! I have searched through lightroom extensively, and tried everything but I just cant seem to get rid of it. How

can I turn this off? Honestly I dont know how it got turned on...

Thanks in advance!<div></div>

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I tried the "show package contents" while clicking on Aperture in applications. Searched through all of the folders but I found no

pics. Any other suggestions?

Hello, once again I am at the mercy of everyones help and suggestions...

Back in May I shot a wedding. At the time I was checking out new and different processing software. I processed the the whole wedding on

Aperture, using the 30 day trial. Later I tried out Lightroom so it became a no-brainer that I would leave Aperture in the dust. Not that Aperture is a

bad program, I think it is great. But I do not see the need for both and I think Lightroom is the far stronger program. Thus, my trial expired. Other

than correcting the files and processing them as low resolution files for a proof cd, I did not process them as high resolution or export the job. Now

the family (friends) have gotten around to deciding which images they want for the album, yet all I have are the low resolution images. I cannot log

back into Aperture unless I pay for the program, which I have no intention of doing because I do not need or want Aperture. My serial obviously

does not work and I cant download another from Aperture. Someone told me about a website called iserial. Went to it on my PC and INSTANTLY

was tagged with virus, blah blah, AVG now scanning....that stuff. So, does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get to the RAW files?

Apparently they are still in the Aperture library when it brings up the screen to log in, but as I see it they are being held "hostage". Did my MAC

save them to another location the way Lightroom does? (another one-up in my opinion) I have searched my hard-drive but with no luck. If anyone

has any suggestions I would seriously appreciate it!

Thanks in advance,

Patrick

Digby,

Not trying to completely come across as rude, but ask yourself: If you honestly do not know the anwser to your question, then do you really have any business taking on this assignment? If you are at the point of shooting paid assignments, then you should have sufficently paid your dues and formed an education to back up your fee's and skill's. If you do not feel that you have the education and skills to pull off an assignment then the right thing to do is to refer it to a photographer who does, and who will not have to ask the advice of other photographers who most certainly know less then you do....

I am not against education, and I am the first to offer everything I know...but the one thing that makes my blood boil is those who try to jump into the "industry" full time without knowing what they are doing, and completely screw it up for those of us who have paid our dues and DO know what we are doing...

I have a good friend who attended NYI and Brooks, two of the best photography schools in the world. They both said the same thing: Expect to assist for 4-5 years; the education you received is nothing, the only education is through assisting. I thought I knew what I was doing until I started assisting the top photographers in the world. Then I realized how much I did not know. If you cannot anwser your own question, then ask yourself - "Do I have vision? Do I have any place bidding on jobs that I cannot manage?" Have you even begun to think about stylists/art directors, etc?

Good luck.

Marc,

I am afraid you disclosed too much info. God help the professional industry. Obviously he has no business commanding this type of shoot if he has no idea/ is relying on the assistants. This is exactly what those of us in the true commercial field face daily in regards to putting us out of business: people who have no idea what they are doing yet quoting on jobs that they most likely have no idea how to quote or shoot! Relying on the assistant for lighting...AHHHHH! Mark of an %#@*#$ shooter and someone who has no idea what they are doing!!! The scurge of professional photography. DUDE, go assist and pay your dues! Sadly due to digital the quality level has drastically gone down and now it is a "fix it in photoshop" mentality with in-house retouchers. You can go shoot complete garbage (with your complete lack of knowledge of lighting and experiece) and with the in-house retouchers they will most likely come in below the cost of a COMPETENT shooter and thus they will pick you...again, not because of your tallent, but obvious inexperience, and thus screwing it up for the rest of us who have paid our dues.

Good luck.

Yeah, good luck even getting in with Getty, especially with the recent purchase. FYI Getty is closed to new photographers unless you have an inside source. Hopefully you do. If not, do not bother wasting your time. Camera is absolutely regardless...

Having once shot for a major (nation wide) event company, I can say this: $125 per hour, with a 2-3 hour minimum, and NO 3'rd PARTY USAGE. Start from there, and get everything in writing! Especially the 3rd party usage part. Get what you want out of it in writing upfront and do not be afraid to throw big figures around. Chances are they are used to dealing with large sums of money. Especially find out about the intended usage...publication:more money. With luck, you can make up money on the back end. (assuming you are not expected to print on-site). Good luck!

How about the business side of things...hopefully you are getting paid well. Not trying to be rude, but try assisting for a few years. Your post makes

me believe that you just "jumped in" without paying your dues and thus are unsure about what you are doing. Assisting is the best school for

photography there is, and there is no substitution for the education you receive. The more photog's the better.