graham_patterson1

<p>If you only have one question on first meeting a Mamiya C series camera you are doing well! They are not really like anything else.<br>

You may find these pages useful:<br>

http://grahamp.dotinthelandscape.org/mfaq/index.html</p>

<p>Graham</p>

<p>It sounds like a problem with the film/shutter interlock inside the camera. The C33 had a lot of variations, though the only externally visible one was the option to use a 220 back. The 220-capable models have a small cut-out in the chrome at the top right of the back, and a second film counter reset located there. It does not sound like this body has the 22 option.</p>

<p>The only other thing to check is that the toothed wheel inside the film take-up chamber is evenly sprung. This is what measures the actual film advanced. If that is misbehaving, the counter will be off. I usually use a sacrificial film or just a roll of backing paper if I want to exercise the transport.<br>

<br />The C33 back is thicker metal than the later models, but it is also worth making sure that the back is fully latched in both corners. I suspect a problem with the internal mechanism.</p>

<p>I have not updated my web pages recently because the Mamiya stuff has not changed. It has been around twenty years since the last of the Mamiya TLRs were made, after all. And I certainly don't consider myself a 'world authority'. I just collate information!</p>

<p>Graham</p>

 

<p>Mamiya did make some 'slim-line' filters that were no wider than the lens barrel. They were never very common. You hit a similar problem fitting two filters to the lenses with 49mm threads - you usually have to file a flat on one filter to provide clearance.<br>

<br />The lens separation of 50mm between the axes (5mm more than the Rollei and copies) must have seemed like a lot when the camera was designed, but squeezing a 180mm f4.5 or 65mm f3.5 into a 49mm barrel was pushing the limits. But a bigger lens axis separation would have meant more parallax. </p>

 

<p>The finders are all compatible across all the bodies. I think the variations are well covered in previous posts. Nice to see a current link to my Mamiya pages cited - I just closed down the old BTInternet site as the ISP is ceasing to provide personal web space. The http://www.gapatterson.org domain should always find it in future, though for the moment it will remain with Comcast.</p>

<p>Graham</p>

<p>Did you set the lens maximum aperture on the lightmeter control on the Porrofinder and the film speed? Since it reads through the viewing lens it has to be programmed. On the other hand, f9 at 1/500 is ridiculously fast for an indoor reading. These devices use CdS cells, which have a different spectral response from the Lenigrad's Selenium cell.</p>

 

<p>When the cocking arm on the body rotates down as the film is advanced, it needs to move the shutter cocking arm just enough to cock the shutter. It the shutter is displaced (rotated) on the lens board the mechanism hits the end of travel on the shutter arm, and it will not cock. The same displacement can have an effect on the shutter release arm causing the shutter not to trip. Sometimes the fault is the other way, and the cocking arm does not get moved far enough.<br>

It should be possible to loosen the locking ring on the rear of the lens and rotate it slightly if this is the case. Use a spanner wrench. You have two working lenses so you can compare the cocking arm position and angle to see what is going on. Don't do more than loosen the mount enough to rotate it. Sometimes there are shims in the mount to match the lens spacing, and you do not want them to fall out.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>If you have a CPE with a lift then you need the cog to rotate the tank, even if you detach the tank to change chemicals (which would be odd - the lift does it better).<br>

If you do not have a lift on the CPE, then you have to have magnets on the tank base, or the tank will not rotate.<br>

The cog is not intended to be removed, and even if you are successful (substantial force may be required) you will need a suitable cap. A rubber bung will work in the cog lid, not that you should need it because the solution maximum is less than half the tank.<br>

You can get the magnets off the tank base, at some risk to the well-being of the tank.<br>

I'd leave the cogs and magnets alone myself. Look for a plain lid and swap the cup for the funnel if it is a print lid not a film one.</p>

 

<p>It may be that the magnifier on your waist-level finder is not well suited to your vision. You have to be able to focus the rim of the central focus spot easily. If you do not use the flip-up magnifier you will have trouble from stray light and the distance/size of the screen. Keeping out stray light is probably the best first step with any screen-focused camera.<br>

The C220f is strictly knob wind (no fold-out crank), and inherited the C330s back release. I wouldn't buy one as an upgrade to a C220. If you want two bodies and you are happy with the C220 constraints, go for it. But it is not going to make much difference in focusing.</p>

 

<p>A lens changes it's effective focal length (and angle of view) as it focuses closer than infinity. The viewfinder has some parallax correction (the frame lines move), but it does not zoom. So the frame lines are set to be most accurate at one end of the range. You get a little more on the negative than the frame lines indicate at infinity. Test it if it bothers you.</p>

 

<p>People's experiences vary. Some people don't like 2500 tanks for doing 5x4, others have no problems at all. Rather like the plastic versus steel spiral debate.<br>

I use a CPE-2+ with a single 2509n spiral/tank at a time. I am developing Delta 100 and HP5+ in FG7, so I usually limit myself to 4 sheets at higher dilutions (1+15). Jobos have a maximum and minimum capacity, so you have to make sure that your chemistry has enough active ingredient and falls in the total volume range for the tank. At lower dilutions (1+11 or stronger) I can load the whole spiral.<br>

I use a pre-rinse and the same times I would use in an inversion (once per minute) tank.<br>

Expert drums will not fit on CPEs. Loading the spirals without the loader just takes a little practice. Just make sure you have the spiral assembled correctly. Hand loading is easiest from the inner slots to the outer, while the loader works better from the outer to the inner. Just sacrifice a sheet for practice.</p>

Check that you are closing the back fully on both sides. The backs on these cameras have some flex. If you do not get both sides latched, the pressure plate will not keep the film taught, and the film counter may mis-read the transport. The counter uses the sprung gear you see in the take-up chamber.

 

Another odd quirk of the camera which can cause this effect is a cable release that does not retract fully. If the shutter release is held down, the film can be wound off without further exposures.

 

Frame spacing should be about 5mm, or a little less than 1/4 inch. Some unevenness is to be expected.

What batteries is it using? My early model was designed for three PX625 mercury cells, but it will run on -13 silver cells using MR-9 adapters. If the voltage is out it will likely have a non-linear response.

The counter reset is a small metal tab in the light seal groove at the upper right of the camera back when open. It sounds like it has stuck down. Gentle persuasion with a small screw driver might free it - it is supposed to be spring loaded. It does not move far, mind.

Mamiya TLR, given the lens range and apertures.

It could be the back not being latched tight. The film transport counter relies on a sprung gear that can be affected by a back that is not latched evenly and tight on both sides. To get out of this quickly, make a dummy 13th exposure and hold the shutter release down while you wind on the film. These cameras have a feature that allows the film to be wound out quickly.

The film advance counter will not work - it relies on displacement from the wound film on a sprung gear in the take-up chamber. The 35mm film will not do this. So the shutter/film advance interlock will not trip.

 

You should be able to put a ring on the takeup spool to fake a full spool, and count advance turns. You would have to cock the shutter manually, but that is normal for a C22.

 

If you just want this for the appearance, and not for a special emulsion, I sugget you fog and develop some 35mm, contact it onto 120 film, and use it as a printing mask.

The Single/Multi control governs the use of the shutter release on the side of the lens panel on the camera body. On single it locks after first use until you wind on. On Multi you can cock and release the shutter many times on the same frame.

 

The film advance lock is tied to the first use of the shutter. You have to trip the body shutter release to wind on.

 

At least, that is how it is _supposed_ to work 8-)

Assuming you have suitable batteries, the usual causes are setting the wrong film speed, or not setting the lens maximum aperture on the calibration dial. You can get problems metering over a microprism center spot on slower lenses.

 

Comparing TTL and hand meters takes some care. The Mamiya meter is a semi-spot. Some Sekonic meters have a similar ability but you will need to match the measured area carefully.

Time will tell. I hope the content can be preserved. Once the TLR material reached a certain level my inbox had fewer questions. Though I still get some.

 

I found some useful items on the M6 there.

Here's how the frame / advance lock operates. When you load the film and advance to frame 1, the take-up spool winds the film counter using a sprung serrated wheel in the upper film chamber. The film advance locks when enough film has been wound.

 

When you make an exposure, you cock the lens by hand, then press down on the release on the right-side of the front frame. On most Mamiya TLRs the shutter trips _after_ the film advance / exposure interlock, so you have to be decisive about the exposure.

 

Once the exposure has been made, the body will not expose another frame until a) you switch to multi to make a double exposure, or b) you advance the film. All Multi does is disable the lock that keeps you from using the shutter release again after you cock the shutter. It should not have any effect on the film advance.

 

I think there is a chance that the film advance lock is not being cleared when you make the exposure with the release on the front frame of the camera.

 

This may be because the shutter release lever on the lens is out of position, and trips early. That would stop the body release moving far enough to release the film advance. The only way to test this without sacrificing the film is to mount another lens. You need the internal baffle open to duplicate the opterating conditions. If you have a changing bag or just go under the covers of the bed tonight, and remove the lens, switch to multi and see if that releases the advance.

 

The other possibility is a fault with the body, but it is not common.

 

Graham

Let's recap:

 

Film loaded, wound so the arrow on the backing paper matches the start marks.

 

Back in 120 mode (or 220 if that is the film length you are using), and body switch set the same. Camera in 'single'. Close the back properly.

 

Wind on to frame 1. If the camera does not stop at 1, check that the back is completely latched on both sides.

 

Make sure the internal baffle is in the 'Lock' position. 'Unlock' has the baffle up for lens changing.

 

Make exposure 1.

 

Camera should wind on when you turn the knob or the fold out crank.

 

If it does not, cap the lens, switch to 'multi' (you may have to hold the selector in place), cock the shutter and make a dummy exposure.

 

If it still will not advance there may be a problem with the body.

 

 

Graham

I use a 49 to 77 step up ring (actually more of a disc), and generally carry 77mm filters for my 90mm and step them for the 135mm. I also have a Cokin P mount that meets most of my lens hood needs by adding or removing a hood unit. The only Cokin filter I have is a polariser, the rest are all screw fit. For a while I carried 49mm filters (I have a few from smaller formats) until I acquired the 77mm ones. For landscape I like a range of yellow, yellow/green, and green. Red is used rarely.

The C220 cameras are not designed with a removable back, unlike the C22/C33 and C330 bodies. I suggest you leave the back on. You can always wrap the rest of the body in a plastic bag and tape it up if you really need to protect it.

The C2 manual at http://www.elusivefoto.com/technical/manuals/mf/mamiyaflex_C2/mamiyaflex_C2.htm is fairly close, though the exposure interlock is closer to the C220. There is a C220 manual at http://www.lighthunter.com/ . These cameras are fundamentally all the same.

 

Basically, film roll in the bottom, empty spool at the top. Make sure the film counter zeros. Insert 120 roll film; draw the backing paper across and insert into the takeup spool. Advance the film until the arrows on the backing paper match the alignment marks on the film rails. Close the back firmly (both top corners). Advance until the film stops at frame 1. Cock the shutter, compose, focus, set exposure, press the shutter release firmly.

 

The lock/unlock control needs to be in 'Lock' to take pictures, and the multi exposure control in the Single position.

 

The Older Mamiya Cameras forum on http://www.mamiya.com (IE browser) has several C3 users.

 

I suppose I ought to add some basic usage instructions to the FAQ.

There are two chimney finder variants - one with dual magnification, one with single magnification and a meter. The dual-mag version is probably better for most purposes.

 

If the lenses are Seikosha-MX shuttered, leave alone. Seikosha-S shutters - maybe. Seiko (black) shutters are probably OK.

 

It is a good price *if* the equipment is fully functional. You need to ask some detailed questions from the seller, I think.